 Poster: A snowHead
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I think this here skiing lark is now starting to click. What I want to know is how do you know when you will start to benefit from a newer, stiffer, tighter pair of shiny ski boots? At the moment I'm in a set of ladies Head 8.8's, they are comfy, though I think the liner is starting to pack down a bit as the buckles are now completely at the limits when I tighten to the point that I think they need to be. These have seen about 5 weeks use plus several sessions in a snowdome and are comfy and I seem in control of the skis in them. At the moment I can't really afford/justify the expense of a new pair, but do begin to wonder if my skiing would be any different if I got some. What sort of boots are the 8.8's - are they beginner boots and at what point do you know that a different set of boots will help your skiing?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 25-10-09 19:52; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, Unless they start to hurt I'd stick with them. It's unlikely that stiffer boots will do you any favors, unless you start racing (and even then I'm not sure it will help).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, Different ski's are probably a better bet 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Do a shell check to measure the gap between your heel/shell & report back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| What sort of boots are the 8.8's - are they beginner boots and at what point do you know that a different set of boots will help your skiing? |
They're a good Intermediate to early advanced boot. Perfect for your present skiing, as long as they fit well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| What I want to know is how do you know when you will start to benefit from a newer, stiffer, tighter pair of shiney ski boots? |
When your technique is good enough to notice the difference!
| Megamum wrote: |
At the moment I'm in a set of ladies Head 8.8's, they are comfy, though I think the liner is starting to pack down a bit as the buckles are now completely at the limits when I tighten to the point that I think they need to be. |
Surprising - you should find that as well as twizzling the buckles round, you should have a selection of 4 or 5 metal tongues that you put the clip into prior to snapping shut. Have you tried using these? Last season I moved from the 3rd upto the 4th as the liners packed down. You can also move the tongues on the boot with a screwdriver.
| Megamum wrote: |
| These have seen about 5 weeks use plus several sessions in a snowdome and are comfy and I seem in control of the skis in them |
Nicely worn in I would believe - I bought new boots last season and would expect them to last another (40 weeks or so) before I start looking for new/better/stiffer ones.
Hope this helps
PS looking at shiny new kit at the ski-show is a bad idea 
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bertie bassett,
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PS looking at shiny new kit at the ski-show is a bad idea
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 Am I that transparent?
Spyderman,
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They're a good Intermediate to early advanced boot. Perfect for your present skiing, as long as they fit well.
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That's what I wanted to know - I didn't know what level they were aimed at - that is very useful - thanks, sounds like they are worth sticking with for the time being. It also bears out what the chap in the shop suggested when I bought them, which was that they weren't his entry level boot which he was unwilling to sell me as I would outski it very quickly and that this pair should do me better service.
spyderjon, I do know that they are tad on the large side - CEM checked the shell once during a snowdome outing and reckons possibly a half size too large. However from what Spyderman, It sounds like they could be worth persevering with. However, they currently don't have decent footbeds in them, maybe if I think they could be made to fit better it would be better investing in some decent supportive footbed and a fitting session with someone that knows their stuff. Esp. as I can't really afford a new set at the moment. I have picked up on here that these footbeds help to transfer the pressure rather more immediately to the ski, and maybe a set would not do any harm esp. as now there is a little more volume in them from the liners packing down.
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When the colour no longer matches your new skis/clothes!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bertie bassett, It's the little metal tongues that I've run out of, they are fitting OK, but I'm on the last one at the moment - I'll check to see if they will move - you've jogged by memory that I think the chap in the shop showed me another hole in the boot shell which IIRC he said the buckle could be moved into.
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Megamum, The liners shouldn't have packed down much after only 5 weeks use - what do you do to dry and air them? I find that if I just leave the liners in the boots I gradually have to do the boots up tighter, but if after every few sessions of use I take the liners out, remove the footbeds, and dry/air the whole lot thoroughly they go back to pretty much new state. Mine have done 7 weeks on snow plus about 150 sessions on dendix, and I can't see any permanent packing down yet.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Do you feel that your foot isn't being held well by the boot. For example, is your heel lifting inside the boot even if you tighten up the buckles as much as possible?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, I think the heels are OK, but the boots DO need to be done up quite tight to stop the movement and the last couple of times I've noticed that when I get the boot tight enough there seems too much pressure across the calf and its less than comfy after they been on for some time - for example after the last HH do I was feeling where they had been pressured across the calf. I know its the lower buckle on the leg that fits the heel, but when this is shut tight enough I then find that the upper buckle won't stay shut unless its tight too. Where I do have space is at the front where the toes are - there is plenty (emphasis on plenty) of wriggle room, it makes them nice and comfy, but I wonder if it should be tighter.
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Megamum, if your foot is being held OK I don't think there's a problem, even if you have the buckles set on the tightest click (as bertie bassett said, the buckles on some boots can be moved to give you tighter settings). If the shell is the right fit for you one option is to replace the liners with Zipfits which will probably give a more precise hold.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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BMF_Skier, no it isn't, but then the boots were never orange either .
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Poster: A snowHead
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I could feel my feet moving about inside my boots and my skis weren't doing what I wanted, particularly on non-groomed snow so I got new boots. If you don't feel anything wrong with them do you think you would feel anything better with new boots?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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lynseyf, Its a bit like saying well I'm happy with the way my 10 year old skoda drives and I don't want another car because I'm not sure that another car would drive any better, because I've never driven a posh car so don't know how they drive. Ski testing helps with skis, but you don't test boots in the same way. Also, there seems no way to definitively say that any boots fit because bootfitters don't have xray eyes, at least with leather shoes, say for children, the leather flexes sufficiently to feel the foot in the shoe and you can see if the toes are too tight/not tight enough. From what I see ski bootfitters have to rely on feedback from the client, but I don't know about you, but I don't know how tight a properly fitting boot is supposed to fit - what is 'comfy' to me, may not be holding my foot snug enough to be 'fitted' as a pro-bootfitter would think his own boots fitted him, I might therefore say that the boots feel OK and go away happy, when if I had gone for a snugger fit they would have skied better. There are lots of subjective things like this. If there is nothing that visually says that something is right or has happened that someone else can experience on your behalf who knows how it is when it is right, then it relies on feedback from the individual who, if they have no point of reference, then has problems with saying whether something is right, wrong, better or worse than before. I guess it is the skill of the bootfitter to guide the client through the process and encourage their expectation of how it should feel.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Megamum wrote: |
| From what I see ski bootfitters have to rely on feedback from the client, |
Not CEM, he can tell at 10 paces whether a client's boots are going to be too big or not. I've seen him do this a few times, and when he's then done a shell check he's always been right. Feedback from the client will be helpful to a good bootfitter, but they will have a good understanding of foot shapes and will have an equally good understanding of the different shapes and sizes of the boots they sell, so they should not need to rely on the client saying too tight or too loose.
At the risk of being accused of "well you would say that wouldn't you" I think there are better ways to improve your skiing than by experimenting with stiffer boots. Work on your technique (by lessons and practicing) is likely to have a much bigger effect on how well you ski. IMO you are very firmly into the law of diminishing returns when you are looking to make setup changes to your kit. Undoubtedly that will have an effect, but not nearly as much as some good lessons.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yes £350 on ski lessons with the right instructor will improve your skiing much more than £350 on new ski boots
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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When you can ski everything on the mountain (on & off piste) in comfort and your boots are affecting your precision or when they wear out or physically start hurting.
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Megamum, If you've asked the question then sub-consciously you've already decided to get some new boots. So get yourself to a bootist and hand over the readies 
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rob@rar, It would seem from all the comments that the boots I have are fine to continue with, which is good news as I couldn't really justify the expense of a new pair. At least I have asked the question as I was being encouraged to do . Mind you I will look to see if there is any movement on the buckles that I can find to get them fitting comfortably at the middle of the teeth rather than at the extreme ends as I think this will put the pressure back where it is comfy on the calves. Also, I can't wait to have another go at the drills that you showed me as you say, lessons as much as anything else can make a difference. Your comments about bootfitters also show why there is variation in peoples experience and success of bootfitting, from what you say it would seem that experience breeds the best fitting. There were some very young advisors working with the considerable number of punters at Olympia and I have to wonder how many of the boots fitted will be on the feet of happy clients after a week of the snow.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| There were some very young advisors working with the considerable number of punters at Olympia and I have to wonder how many of the boots fitted will be on the feet of happy clients after a week of the snow. |
Never buy boots at ski shows, and always get recommendations for bootfitters (and instructors ).
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I might therefore say that the boots feel OK and go away happy, when if I had gone for a snugger fit they would have skied better. |
Maybe, but I think you are chasing diminishing marginal returns. Spending the money on training will yield more return for your money.
It sounds like you are really getting into this skiing business
Why not hook-up with your local slope and try and sit in on their instructor training program ? It will do wonders for your technical skiing. Some slopes offer it as a 'pay' option until you are at the stage you can do some work for them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Do a shell check to measure the gap between your heel/shell & report back. |
Megamum, do what Jon says......and report back
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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david@mediacopy, Nah...I'll leave the instructing to those will real aptitude.
However, yes, I am really into this skiing business at the moment, I can't wait to get out on the snow - its got to the stage where its started to be fun and I've started to look at some things that were scaring me witless and now think 'I can get down that - {glee}'
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kitenski, CEM has already confirmed that I'm about a half size too big.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| kitenski, CEM has already confirmed that I'm about a half size too big. |
well that combined the fact that your are on the tightest buckle settings leads me to suggest new boots may well benefit you....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum, Also worth bearing in mind is that the tighter the fit the less comfy they are. I can only just move my toes, certainly can't wiggle them. A recreational fit is between 15-25mm shell check, mine is 7mm, so by the time you've taken into account the 6mm for the liner, that leaves 1mm for comfort. Even when the liners pack down they'll still never be loose. I've just gone for the new thin Zip-fit liners, they're only just becoming tolerable to wear for extended periods. Hopefully after a few more sessions they'll be as comfortable as I expect them to be.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Megamum wrote: |
| kitenski, CEM has already confirmed that I'm about a half size too big. |
well that combined the fact that your are on the tightest buckle settings leads me to suggest new boots may well benefit you.... |
Move the buckles.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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riverman, too true. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Spyderman,
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Even when the liners pack down they'll still never be loose. I've just gone for the new thin Zip-fit liners
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CEM told me that Zip-Fits don't pack down (as he relieved me of the cash, with an evil grin on his face.)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bootfitters don't have xray eyes
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They don't need them now. Half the boots are see thru
Just got back from CEM myself, with a new snug pair of boots.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
Spyderman,
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Even when the liners pack down they'll still never be loose. I've just gone for the new thin Zip-fit liners
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CEM told me that Zip-Fits don't pack down (as he relieved me of the cash, with an evil grin on his face.) |
The cork doesn't, but the furry toe box and inner liner material will - Hopefully.
I was referring more towards the OEM fit liner though.
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Spyderman,
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| Hurtle wrote: |
Spyderman,
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Even when the liners pack down they'll still never be loose. I've just gone for the new thin Zip-fit liners
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CEM told me that Zip-Fits don't pack down (as he relieved me of the cash, with an evil grin on his face.) |
pack down is prehaps not the correct term to use, the stock liner that comes with the boot is made from soft compressible foam it "packs down" the zip fit liner has cork and clay putty which slowly moves the heat of the foot and the motions of skiing cause it to find the spaces and removing pressure from tight spots.... it settles in more than packs down...the more it settles the more you move into the material which gives the net effect of more space
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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CEM, yes, understood. Shall look forward to that - also to the fact that the putty will continue to keep moving and not degrade. I'm hoping these shiny boots will 'see me out' - I'm not quite such a sucker for new gear as some who shall remain nameless.
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FAQ
