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All purpose helmets

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Why are there ski specific helmets ?

Surely a bicycle helmet would do the job ?

Compulsory ski helmets may not be far away. When I cycled in Queensland, Australia I was told I had to wear a helmet. Many ski resorts now insist on helmets for children.

Helmets are not cheap. I am just curious to know what is so different about recreational skiing, that a cycle helmet would not do the job. At least, a cycle helmet would have another use if you have a pushbike at home.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Latchigo, bicycle helmets by law have to be as uncomfortable as possible to encourage us back into our cars and so pay lots of taxes in petrol. Bicycle helmets also do not have much insulation.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Jonpim wrote:
Latchigo, Bicycle helmets also do not have much insulation.


A large Rastafarian-style woolly hat to be worn over the bike lid could solve the insulation problem.
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Part of the problem may be that cycle helmets may not have been tested to the tests specified in European and North American ski helmet standards. Not a cheap business, conformity testing, and meeting quality standards to prove that your products conform to the tested sample (though I guess that last bit applies to cycle helmets, too). And, of course, every manufacturer knows he can charge a premium if the kit is ski equiment. Twisted Evil
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
They do seem to have a different shape, so probably they protect you in different ways.
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Kramer wrote:
They do seem to have a different shape, so probably they protect you in different ways.


Maybe I am just a suspicious old git.

Bikes, skiing, ice hockey, horse riding even - I can't see why you need a different skid lid.

You are travelling within a fairly narrow speed range and a fall is a fall.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Latchigo,

I can pack my ski helmet into my luggage and not worry about having it crushed by airport gorillas. It is a multi-impact helmet.

I can bike with my roadie helmet without overheating or chafing the back of my neck or overstraining my neck muscles. It weighs 215g and has clear peripheral vision so I can see ahead and to the side even when my chin is next the handlebar.

I don't fall backwards on the road bike; DH bike helmets look like guess what?

Hockey helmets protect against pucks, sticks and padded gorillas with skates on.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
From looks alone (always the best way of judging anything wink ) it would seem that helmet-mongers perceive the chance of a major head bashing as increasing in the order: cycling, horse riding, rock climbing, skiing, motor sports, tactical warfare. It therefore seems to me that as long as our choice of head protection is the composite kevlar ballistic combat helmet, we would indeed have a single helmet for all our needs Laughing

But Latchigo, it would certainly be nice to wear my well-ventilated if poncy-looking cycle helmet for spring skiing than my (soon to be purchased) all-enclosing ski helmet! snowHead
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Bike helmets are basically one use only - they're made of cheap foam, will protect you well for one hard impact but then you have to buy a new one. This is because hitting your head while riding a bike is rare. On skis, its actually pretty common. You would probably go through alot of bike helmets on skis.
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ponder wrote:
This is because hitting your head while riding a bike is rare. On skis, its actually pretty common. You would probably go through alot of bike helmets on skis.


Hitting my head while skiing is not yet common for me, Thank God.

I would have thought the bike helmet would afford reasonable protection and possibly be reusable - though if it did the job, I would not quibble about replacing it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:

This is because hitting your head while riding a bike is rare. On skis, its actually pretty common.


Ah I have finally worked out why some people where ski helmets!
Fortunately for me it is uncommon not being a head banger I don't wear a lid.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
T Bar, Dying is an uncommon event in someones life as this happens only once, an argument with a tree whilst skiing may also only happen once in your life wearing a helmet may allow you to do it again.
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Russell, from reading the thread about ski helmets, I doubt if a helmet will stop you killing yourself if you are going to headbutt trees at speed. A helmet appears to reduce damage from mild to middling impacts but I don't think that anyone has come up with any evidence to say that a helmet makes much difference with fatal accidents.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
helmets DO help on impact, but it does not guareentee that it can save you.
motorcyclists wear helmets, but they still die...

so think of it this way...

"i wear a helmet to get MAXIMUM protection, but it doesnt mean im invinicble. however, i do look better then the mofo next to me with the bike helmet at a ski resort"
snowHead
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
john wells, But every now and then a helmet may stop an accident from being fatal snowHead
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
john wells, I never mentioned speed, A bang on the head and 15mph could cause a fatal or serious injury a lot depends on circumstances but if the accident is fatal then the helmet didn't make enough of a difference. An accident is only fatal when you die as a result, a helmet will therefore never make a difference in a fatal accident. wink

A helmet will give the wearer some degree of protection to impacts and therefore reduce the seriousness of an injury sustained, this and the fact that I value the small amount of brain matter I have been blessed with is why I wear one. snowHead
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
But equaly wearing a helmet may make an accident fatal. The increased mass and width of head may increase rotational forces, which may snap your neck.

Notice many 'may's and maybes in all helmet discussions!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
fragglerock, at 340g and a wall thickness of about 45mm distributed evenly around the head the forces involved would have to be high make a difference, maybe on a motor cycle at 120mph or in a high G force stop as in a grand prix car, but when skiing I would rather protect against impact and risk a rotation force capable of breaking my neck. You are more likely to bring you neck as a result of falling and landing on your head than due to rational forces in an impact when skiing unless of course you at super high speed and come to a dead stop.
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Russell, I wear a helmet so I am just playing devil's advocate - an increase of the heads inertia by about 10% and an increase of the leverage moment by about 20% - either could take the stress on the cervical spine past the breaking point. It doesn't need high speed, 20 or 30 mph is easily enough.

We just do not have enough information but the benefits of a helmet might be balanced by the downsides. I could not say that wearing a helmet changes my chances of killing myself - in my case what it does do is reduce headaches, I think, maybe .
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My next purchase is going to be of a helmet so I am certainly convinced the pluses outweigh the negatives, however it is important not to think that a helmet gives you total safety on the slopes. (or on a bike or battlefield!)

I am not sure what the accident distribution is in skiing, certainly it seems mostly to be limb breaks, and concussions rather than necks.

I have not seen any suggestions that downhill racers should be wearing Hans devices!
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A standard bike helmet (as opposed to a full face BMX or downhill type) is often pointed at the rear for streamlining. It is basically useless for protecting the lower back of the head and neck against either falling backwards or being thumped from behind by a lift bar or an out-of-control skier/slider. A long point could even increase the chances of a broken neck in a backwards fall. As comprex said, it has to let you look up without chafing the neck. One's stance on a bike and on skis are completely different. Also bike helmets are designed to be worn quite high on the head and to give as much cooling and ventilation as possible. In the event of a fall a good biker will hang onto the bars, shoulders will often take most of the impact (unless you've gone over the bars) and the head will get a reduced impact bang on the side.
Skiing helmets are designed to give much more protection against rear impact, more side protection, and more protection from the elements. So I can't see a compromise design working out.
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A cycle helmet would not provide the protective enclosure deemed desirable for skiing, and arguably neither the impact resistance, but what is there to prevent us using our ski helmets for cycling? OK, a little weightier, less slick thru the air and less breezy, but would do the job esp in the colder months. Or for horse riding? Also ski helmets don't have to be so insulating. Many people ski without headgear and I'm sure a ventilating ski helmet could be designed which would provide summer cycling comfort too. As far as aerodynamics go, few people really road cycle competitively, so the extra work helps with the primary objective - exercise.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
The standards for helmets for skiing and cycling and motorbikes all vary widely. It's quite possible that the standard conflict in various areas and so a universal helmet would be impossible.

That said, the wife's new ski helmet does look quite similar to some bike helments.
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Did a little research.

It seems that cycle and ski helmet standards are closely related. In fact the first US ski helmet standards were based to some extent on their cycle helmet standards. At least in terms of impact protection the current ASTM F2040 ski standard is about the same as the ASTM cycle standard, both being slightly superior to the European CEN 1077 ski standard (the first ski helmet standard published). Another US helmet safety organisation (NGO) called Snell has its own standard RS-98 which is in fact the most stringent of the three.

A big difference is that ski helmets are designed for multiple impacts, unlike cycle helmets, though it'd probably still pay to pay for a new one, if your helmet got bashed good. Ski helmets also obviously offer more enclosure and therefore all round protection, but less ventilation.

I even found a site proposing a secondary role for the Giro Fuse as a cold-weather helmet for cyclists.

So, no good reason not to cycle in the winter with your ski helmet. Who's going to go first?

http://www.braininjuryoklahoma.org/intro/Recreation/Winter%20Sports/snowsports.htm

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/skihelm.pdf

http://www.snowshack.com/helmet-standards.html

http://www.snewsnet.com/cgi-bin/snews/02462.html
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Russell,
Quote:

Dying is an uncommon event in someones life as this happens only once


To be facetious dying happens to everyone, fortunately getting a serious head injury from skiing remains rare
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slikedges wrote:
Did a little research.




Excellent post . This is easily the most informative answer to the question ( and from Oxford too).
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Latchigo, Thanks for the positive peer review, though I seem to have ki lled the topic dead! wink
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