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Rocker skis - should they touch in the middle or at the ends?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I just had my Salomon Lord skis (last season's model) delivered, and I'm a little worried they're not quite right.

The Salomon Lord are supposed to have a 'rocker' shape.

In the snowboard world this means that if you place the board down on a flat surface, it will only touch the floor in the center. A normal 'non-rocker' snowboard will touch the floor at each end. I have a Lib-Tech rocker snowboard, and this seems to be the case.

However, when you place these skis down on a flat surface, they touch the floor at each end. In fact, the middle is about 10mm off the ground. Is this normal? Are my skis defective? They're last seasons, so could they be damaged by storing them wrong over the year?

Now these skis don't have bindings on yet... maybe with bindings they'll assume the perfect rocker shape?
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I was under the impression the Lords had normal camber and an early rise tip. Even when I saw them it was kind of unnoticeable.
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Yeah - but it actually has printed on the ski "rocker shape"...
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I owned some lords for a while last season and the rocker is almost unnoticeable, as Fall-line magazine pointed out. They have a pretty regular camber and even when you squashed them flat together the early rise was barely noticeable. The shape of your Lords will definitely be as they were supposed to be!
Skis have different amount of rocker usually described by the distance of the early rise from the tip and the amount of deflection of the rocker e.g. 20/40
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Can you explain what the "early rise" is? Also what's the "deflection" of the rocker?
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While rocker is a form of reverse camber, rocker as used in most skis does not mean they are reverse cambered throughout their length. You can have a rockered tip and normal positive camber in the middle of the ski, though lots of skis with tip rocker will have flattish camber. So unlikely your skis are defective.
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d.brophy, my understanding, early rise= long curvature from the flat of the base to the tip.(pretty much)
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evogear has a pretty good explanation - combine the pics of rocker & cambered ski & that'll be what your side profile looks like.

http://www.evogear.com/info/helpcenter/494.aspx
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d.brophy, your Lords are exactly what they are meant to be, Salomon were just marketing when they called the 'rocker' shape.

By all accounts still a good all mountain ski.
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It's got a tip rocker. Rocker is a pretty vague, untrademarked term that basically means "some of the ski's normal camber is the reverse of normal". You can have tip, tip and tail, continous (which is like your snowboard example), or recurve (basically, big tip and tail that don't make contact with groomed snow, then regular, positive camber underfoot).
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d.brophy, should you be buying kit you don't understand?
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under a new name,

how come you dont go back to your previous posts and answer questions about your wisdom? is it because you are in a hurry to post the next line of rubbish.. Shocked

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=55818

please comment on your wise remarks about the boots being too big and how you know this...
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Quote:

d.brophy, should you be buying kit you don't understand?


under a new name, Why not? I don't understand my computer in the slightest but i still bought it and I can use it to write to you, what more could i want.

The Lords arent really "rocker" skis, they just have "rocker". i.e. in this case the fronts have a small amount of reverse camber (they bend back a bit), but the rest is a normal ski, idea is it helps you float better in the soft stuff but unlike full rocker skis they will still grip and carve nicely on the piste.

Don't worry about it, you have got a really good pair of skis there, i'm sure you will have lots of fun on them
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
under a new name, why should he understand it? I wasn't aware we should of had classes on ski construction and shapes before we bought them? rolling eyes If he has read reviews etc on what they can do and thats what he wants them for then why not buy? If you fully understood EVERYTHING you owned down to the finest details, you wouldn't own a great deal would you.
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under a new name wrote:
d.brophy, should you be buying kit you don't understand?


Hahaa. You shouldn't post in threads you DON'T understand.

The first time I saw the Lords I was surprised as I had read all about the 'rocker design' and then when you see the ski: it doesn't have any - compared to true 'rockered skis'. The OP was right to question this.
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parlor, rocker=marketing?
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geeo, done.

I guess it's that mid-week lack of a sense of humour though?
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under a new name wrote:
parlor, rocker=marketing?


negative imho; but there are of course degrees...
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i think parlor's point is that "rocker" on the Lord = marketing

i haven't seen those so couldn't comment. the salomon rocker is not a misnomer by any means

there was a debate on TGR about definitions of rocker, reverse camber, early rise etc. bottom line is that there aren't really specific definitions. there is also a thread on TGR where people have taken side-on pictures of rockered skis so you have a better idea of what you are getting
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all companies have different types of rocker/camber on their skis

early rise
full rocker
rocker with camber

these are all different ones that you see on atomic k2 and volkl skis, check their websites for more info... the volkl one has lots of examples and looks like the rocker makes the ski easier to handle in powder... NehNeh
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Arno, agreed - that was the impression which I got from the thread anyway.

However, it seemed that UANN was implying that the rocker ski concept itself may just have been marketing.
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fr0sty, ha ha ha - I was.

But given that my own new skis have a modest "early rise" ... I must have been suckered as well. They've got great graphics too, who cares about performance?

By the way, Oi! parlor, you cheeky git,
Quote:
You shouldn't post in threads you DON'T understand

- exactly what bit of the thread do you think I don't understand?
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under a new name, cross-posting between threads can become very confusing...
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fr0sty, what Arno said. Salomon, IMHO, were jumping in the marketing band wagon of the 'rocker revolution'.

under a new name, haha. IMO anyone would / should have the same reaction as d.brophy. The skis are sold as 'rockered' skis, but there is NO rocker. I was implying YOU don't understand because of your comment ^. d.brophy question / post is legit and does not imply that he was buying gear ho doesn't understand. I too would be confused buying a product that was labeled as, for instance, waterproof, to get it home to find it leaked like a Labour front benchers briefcase.
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I'd bet that there's some fun to be had trolling some UK shop Saturday boys to see if they'll sell you gear on the basis of "rocker" benefits without even understanding it. FWIW I think its a pretty fun development but not necessarily for everyone, there's no doubt a properly rockered ski handles differently to its cambered cousin and in particular people shouldn't assume lengths will translate directly.
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There's more rocker in a Lord than the first (mini)rockered k2 seth? I don't think the Lord is unreasonabley marketed, it does have a small amount of early rise - not much point in having tons on a 90mm ski anyway. "rocker" has never been a set amount - or at least I've never thought of it as full on tip flapping around four foot in the air as a definition anyway.
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d.brophy, the length of rocker in the tip of your Lord's will soon grow when the tip starts to delaminate wink
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spyderjon, 'late rise' ?
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This is what proper tip rocker looks like Cool

Length is approx 400mm.
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spyderjon, Bro? - Or K2 maybe?
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fr0sty, Bro
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spyderjon, meh, here's real tip rocker:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62779&d=1248521948

NehNeh
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DaveC, I had a pair of K2 TNCs like that once. Actually, make that several times.

Got to be pretty good at bending them back, want me to show ya how?
Razz
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Yup... 'rocker' seems to be the 2010 marketting buzz word Very Happy

K2 seem to be leading the field with this one - all of their 'backside skis' have a subtle 'tip only' rocker.
(which you can only really notice when the skis are squeezed together).
And also flat tails - which for powder skiing makes alot of sense.
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Haggis_Trap wrote:
Yup... 'rocker' seems to be the 2010 marketting buzz word Very Happy


It's been around for at least 3 or 4 years in the mainstream, driven by the indie companies. The big boys are just catching up really....
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Quote:
driven by the indie companies. The big boys are just catching up really....


Not true...

The Voltant Spatula was obviously the very first rockered ski way back in 2002.
But only 2000 of them were made - which gave it cult status.

Then K2 brought out the Pontoon in late 2006. Which really made the ski industry pay attention and go 'wow, what is that!?'. Both of these skis were desinged by Shane McConkey (RIP). If anyone can claim invention of the whole 'rocker concept' then it is him Cool (go check the sequence of MConkey skiing on water skis in MSP's Focussed film from 2003).

Certainly there are lot's (and lots) of indie firms currently making rockered skis - some of them great, some of them not. But that is mainly a reflection that indie ski firms generally make skis for off piste.

Most of the 'big boys' deserve credit for some of their shapes too. Its just not cool to admit that on an internet forum wink The Rossignol S7, for example, is one of the most progresive shapes currently on the market.

IMHO K2 have been bold and forward thinking with their 2010 range. Using generally subtle tip only rocker, that only appears when the ski is flexed or weighted by the skier. And also totally flat tails on the entire backside range - which helps in release of the turn. Not many other ski firms are currently removing twip tips from their big skis ?
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DaveC wrote:
spyderjon, meh, here's real tip rocker:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62779&d=1248521948

NehNeh

That's a reverse camber ski not a tip rocker ski rolling eyes wink
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parlor, ha ha back! see your verbier and raise you a chamonix. You know that we get verbier for free on our season passes, which clearly ends the Cham/Verbs superiority debate doesn't it? What's it worth if it's free? (yes, yes, yes, a whole lot and you still have to blag your way into the farm cess pit if you really must)

But it means that we intend on ripping up your patch rather more this season. Would be fun (maybe!) to meet and settle the great 110-and-growing fatboy vs 67-and-constant FIS-SL better in powder debate...

except. bollox. we've bought fat skis...
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spyderjon wrote:
DaveC wrote:
spyderjon, meh, here's real tip rocker:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62779&d=1248521948

NehNeh

That's a reverse camber ski not a tip rocker ski rolling eyes wink


Sounds like semantics, Praxis call it "continuous curve rocker" Wink Should of found an ARG or DPS pic...
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haggis trap, K2 and the Pontoon weren't the "second" mainstream rocker ski, and there were way more than 200 spats around at the time. I think DPS were the Spats direct replacement with their 120 and 138s. Birdo too, and Praxis beat the Pontoon out the gate. Like I said, indie companies Wink Not entirely sure of the timeline, but I'd definitely put the credit with McConkey not K2 too![/b]


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 29-10-09 9:05; edited 1 time in total
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