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If Ryanair offered airport transfers?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I find it incredible the amount you have to pay to transport people from an airport to a ski resort. We have had somebody after a 3 night stay for 2 people in our studio, the cost of the cheapest transfer I could find was more than the cost of 2 return flights from Liverpool to Geneva and the cost of the accommodation for 3 nights. They did not want to hire a car and the train and bus times were not convenient so are now looking elsewhere.
I worked out the cost per mile for 2 people on Easyjet at under 6p per mile yet the cost per mile for a private transfer is £1.35 per mile.
Can anyone explain or try to justify why it costs so much for a taxi?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
skichampcouk wrote:
I find it incredible the amount you have to pay to transport people from an airport to a ski resort. We have had somebody after a 3 night stay for 2 people in our studio, the cost of the cheapest transfer I could find was more than the cost of 2 return flights from Liverpool to Geneva and the cost of the accommodation for 3 nights. They did not want to hire a car and the train and bus times were not convenient so are now looking elsewhere.
I worked out the cost per mile for 2 people on Easyjet at under 6p per mile yet the cost per mile for a private transfer is £1.35 per mile.
Can anyone explain or try to justify why it costs so much for a taxi?


No, but if I were you I would move into your apartment and start up a taxi business doing transfers, if it's that easy, why not.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
They would come with boot space, seat, petrol/diesel, roofrack, chains, and even duration as an extra. No doubt MOL could think up a few additional items to charge for.
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Most taxi's in resort are only needed on Saturday, maybe Sunday and for 4 months a year?
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thefatcontroller wrote:
Most taxi's in resort are only needed on Saturday, maybe Sunday and for 4 months a year?


So that leaves Mon-Fri to ski all day, then make a packet at the weekend to pay for it. Sounds like a plan to me.
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Kel,
Quote:

No, but if I were you I would move into your apartment and start up a taxi business doing transfers,

Good idea for when the kids have left home.

thefatcontroller,
Quote:

Most taxi's in resort are only needed on Saturday, maybe Sunday and for 4 months a year?

Surely a business run from the airport towns wouldn't have that problem!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Kel, skichampcouk, Your answers explains why Mo'l runs Ryanair and you guys don't. Toofy Grin
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Not sure I get the whinge - for a moderate size car fuel costs about 15p a mile, probably more for an MPV, add tolls, road tax, Swiss fichet, cost of roof box/snow tyres, depreciation, repairs, parking at airports, driver's time spent there and back (including margin for delays) - its not surprising transfers cost so much. FWIW transfer costs on popular routes served by regular transfers seem pretty reasonable to me. Perhaps you should have bought in Chamonix if you wanted to let to people too feeble to rent a car.
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someone needs to start bus transfers to start making real money I would assume. I don't think you'd have enough numbers per weekend just using a large minibus.
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I gather that some places in the Dolomites some of the hotels club together to organise one airport transfer per saturday in each direction to Treviso (and possibly other airports?)
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BensBus set up from Grenoble to fill a gap in that market and now works out of Geneva. He charges £45-ish return by coach to LDA & Ad'H which is something like 140 miles return ie about 32p/mile per person and £64 return for Geneva <--> 3Valleys.

In the UK of course there is the ultra cheap Megabus - I was delighted when I found I can get a local service to from Hull/Scunthorpe to London St Pancras (it sticks you on the train at "East Mids Parkway"). Then I found the drawback - the luggage restriction. No skis Evil or Very Mad .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
thefatcontroller wrote:
Kel, skichampcouk, Your answers explains why Mo'l runs Ryanair and you guys don't. Toofy Grin


I aint ever going to run an airline, but running a Merc Vito in the Alps is quite do-able.

Just need a couple of years to get the kids off my hands and persaude the missus that giving up a reasonably well paid job (which includes a company car) and trading the 4 bed detached in for an apartment is a good idea Laughing Laughing
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thefatcontroller, indeed. rolling eyes

Cost per mile of car about 40 + including all the factors fatbob mentions. Then there is your time... HOw much do you value that at?

Why would one expect a taxi in a high mountain environment with great fluctuations in business demand to be hugely cheaper than a London taxi which will have a relatively high utilisation on all days of the week?

Quote:
* For the first 335.8 metres or 72.2 seconds (whichever is reached first) there is a minimum charge of £2.20;
* For each additional 167.9 metres or 36.1 seconds (whichever is reached first), or part thereof, if the fare is less than £13.40 then there is a charge of 20p;
* Once the fare is £13.40 or greater then there is a charge of 20p for each additional 117.7 metres or 25.3 seconds (whichever is reached first), or part thereof.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
snowball wrote:
I gather that some places in the Dolomites some of the hotels club together to organise one airport transfer per saturday in each direction to Treviso (and possibly other airports?)


Actually, lots of them.

There are two organisations - Terravision and Trentoviaggi. I think both are subsidised by the ski areas.

Terravision do transfers for €25 return, while Trentoviaggi are €29

Terravision do Venice (Treviso) to Cortina, Kronplatz, Alta Badia, Alta Pusteria , Verona to Val Gardena and Alta Badia, and Bergamo to Val Gardena and Alta Badia. (Several runs on weekend days, plus some on Thursday/Friday/Monday)
http://www.dolomitisuperski.com/en-US/218EN.html?idBlock=3706

Trentoviaggi do Venice, Verona or Bergamo (plus Breschia) to Val Di Fiemme, Val di Fassa and San Martino di Castrozza (2 runs on Saturday, 1 on Sunday from each airport). They also do transfers to the Brenta Dolomites.
http://www.trentinoviaggi.net/start.php?page=home&lang=EN

[EDIT] Terravision prices for 009/2010 are €35 return, and they also now go from Innsbruck to Val Gardena and Bressanone
http://www.terravision.eu/dolomites_innsbruck.html
[/EDIT]
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
thefatcontroller,
Quote:

Your answers explains why Mo'l runs Ryanair and you guys don't.

Can't argue with that.
fatbob,
Quote:

Perhaps you should have bought in Chamonix

Couldn't afford it.
stoatsbrother,
Quote:

Cost per mile of car about 40 + including all the factors fatbob mentions. Then there is your time... HOw much do you value that at?

If running a car costs 40p per mile that would value your time at £50 per hour. That does seem quite a good rate to drive a taxi, even in a high mountain environment?

Hopefully firms like bensbus and terravision will expand and create a bit of competition.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
skichampcouk wrote:
I find it incredible the amount you have to pay to transport people from an airport to a ski resort. We have had somebody after a 3 night stay for 2 people in our studio, the cost of the cheapest transfer I could find was more than the cost of 2 return flights from Liverpool to Geneva and the cost of the accommodation for 3 nights. They did not want to hire a car and the train and bus times were not convenient so are now looking elsewhere.
I worked out the cost per mile for 2 people on Easyjet at under 6p per mile yet the cost per mile for a private transfer is £1.35 per mile.
Can anyone explain or try to justify why it costs so much for a taxi?


IMO the problem is the 6p per mile bit. It is neither economically or environmentally sustainable.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
well if you got 120 people into your car that would bring the cost per head down a bit.. not sure you could match the 400 mph of th eplane tho
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
CANV CANVINGTON, Laughing Laughing Laughing I think you have found the issue with skichampcouk's business model.
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skichampcouk, the 40p is before your time - just depreciation and fuels and tyres and isnurance etc etc... The true cost is higher...

And 40p a mile for 50 miles in an hour would be £20...

Don't give up your day job wink Toofy Grin
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stoatsbrother, Sorry, it was late and I didn't explain it very well.
The cheapest price I could find was just over £300 for a return journey of 222 miles. If the cost per mile to run the car is 40p per mile that would be £88.80 which leaves you with £211.20. The journey from Geneva to Champagny normally takes me just under 2 hours, so 4 hours driving at a cost of £211.20 equates to over £50 per hour.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 21-10-09 12:27; edited 1 time in total
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skichampcouk, Come on, what about the other 6 days of the week you hope to find some work and the 8 months a year you cannot find work. Puzzled . If you are so convinced it is so easy why not jack in the job here and go do it?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
skichampcouk, and what happens when your client's flight is delayed, and the driver has to wait at the airport for them? Where was the transfer service based, and how many miles did they have to trvel to reach the client at the airport . A return transfer of 200 miles is 400 miles for the driver.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Helen Beaumont, If the business was based close to the airport it would be easy to phone them when you land. If I want a taxi from Manchester airport to home I don't book it in advance and pay for the taxi driver to wait. I usually phone them as soon as I land and I usually only have to wait for 5 or 10 minutes for it to arrive. Normally the taxi driver has another customer to pick up as soon as he drops me off.
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skichampcouk, but they still have double the mileage to do to drop the person at resort.
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skichampcouk, Oh Jesus this is hard. Taxi drivers like lots of short fares and hate long fares as there is no guarantee that they will get a return ride.

Now bear with me. On a Saturday full planes arrive and they need to be filled to go back, hence the first part of the taxi journey of the day is getting the tourist form the resorts to the airport and in skiing season there is a damn good chance they will get a full load going back.

In your model, the taxi man sits around till mid morning waiting for a plane to land. He then takes his passengers to the resort to return empty as the load he should have taken had to leave as they needed to get to the airport.

Therefore the taxis for ski season are best placed in resort where they get one guaranteed (actually its not guaranteed as there is competition) days work a week, and hopefully something for the other 6 and then they get nothing for 8 months a year.

Please no more ideas on how you can make this work. If it was that easy we would all do it Toofy Grin
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Taxi rates from Geneva to resorts are no more expensive than it would be to get a taxi from a UK airport to a destination 1/2/3 hours away...yet everyone seems to expect the rate to be much cheaper and I've not worked out why.

It is expensive to get a private transfer - although if you book in advance you can usually find something for around 50 euros per person each way.

You can always book your holiday with a company who include transfers in their holiday and short break prices Laughing www.mountainsunltd.com/chalet/chalet-melezes-and-mazot/availability
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Joanne Mountainsun wrote:
Taxi rates from Geneva to resorts are no more expensive than it would be to get a taxi from a UK airport to a destination 1/2/3 hours away...yet everyone seems to expect the rate to be much cheaper and I've not worked out why.


I don't think anybody is expecting taxi rates to be cheaper.

People are hoping for a transfer service that would be significantly cheaper than taxi rates.

TO's manage it, but only by the fact that they have several plane loads of people going to the same set of resorts.

But the Dolomites system shows it can be done, although you may have to wait a while if your flight time is unusual.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
alex_heney, It absolutely can be done at a reasonable price - if you're booking through a company where they are arranging transfers for you and they've booked transport for various parties so can hire a coach/small bus (as we do in the Dolomites and Tignes) or using their own mini bus, etc.

I thought we were talking about private transfers for individuals and how much they cost...probably missed the point! Sorry.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Nearly all ski resorts are serviced by some kind of Bus Connection even if it involves a couple of changes. Many resorts in Switzerland & Austria also serviced by train as well. Its much much cheaper & reliable.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Actibus from Grenoble, Lyon and Chambery airports to various resorts http://www.actibus.eu/
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Lets be clear about this - if you are travelling for a short break your biggest single cost/hour is likely to be transfers. Most people deal with this by renting a car - maximum time on the slopes for minimum inconvenience. Public transport is available if you wish to maximise inconvenience. If you choose a popular resort/travel time you will have the benefit of structured transfer options. If none of the above are appropriate for you you should quite rightly expect to pay through the nose.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
fatbob wrote:
Lets be clear about this - if you are travelling for a short break your biggest single cost/hour is likely to be transfers. Most people deal with this by renting a car - maximum time on the slopes for minimum inconvenience. Public transport is available if you wish to maximise inconvenience. If you choose a popular resort/travel time you will have the benefit of structured transfer options. If none of the above are appropriate for you you should quite rightly expect to pay through the nose.

Right on.

Why won't they hire a car? Surely they could do for a lot less on a 3 day short stay?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
abc,
Quote:

Why won't they hire a car? Surely they could do for a lot less on a 3 day short stay?

It was a mother looking to take her young daughter for her first ski trip. The mother had driven in France before but was a bit nervous about driving in the Alps.

fatbob, I agree, most people who are looking for a DIY holiday are usually prepared to drive. If it is for more than 2 people it is usually cheaper and far more convenient to hire a car.
However she will have to 'pay through the nose' for the privilege of being driven to a resort. She told me she had been quoted a price of £800 for the 2 of them for 3 days for flights, transfers and accommodation.

thefatcontroller, I posted this in the hope of somebody coming up with the name of a cheap taxi firm or an alternative to altibus and was not after a career change. I would rather spend my Saturdays in Champagny skiing whilst everybody else is stuck on the N90 in a traffic jam. However, I did receive a PM (possibly SPAM) from a firm called Wayne Cars offering cheap DIY transfers but I fear that may just be a bit of a wind up
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skichampcouk, When are they travelling? And where to? (sorry if you've given those details already, didn't have time to read everything and wanted to see if we could help)
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Joanne Mountainsun, I think they were pretty flexible on where and when. I will send details of your website to her.
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