 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
Due to MrsS's employers holiday policy of "take it when you are told to" we have our first ski trip this season for the week commencing 5th December. Since we went to France, France, Italy, and Switzerland last winter Austria is the preferred destination this time around.
We will be driving, so not limited by airports/transfers etc, and realise that we may need to wait to see where the early snow falls, but would like to try draw up a shortlist of suitable destinations. Criteria are, decent amount of skiing (we are probably upper intermediates - can ski anything pisted, but find it challenging on mogulled blacks or ski-routes), accomodation and lift pass not stupidly expensive (will probably look at apartment for 4), and reasonable chance of decent early season snow, and obviously, snow allowing the resort needs to be fully open that week! Can't imagine apres-ski will particularly lively anywhere that week, but somewhere not completely dead would help.
Places under consideration so far are:
Serfaus?
Lech - apartments look too expensive?
St Anton - again expensive accomodation
Ischgl - been there twice before
Solden - glaciers make it snowsure?
Zillertal/Hintertux - going to Zillertal in February
Stubaital - glacier snowsure, but accomodation down the valley at Neustift?
Any comments/ideas about the places listed, and more suggestions would be very welcome....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well there's always Zell-am-See / Kaprun as well - guaranteed snow on the glacier and Zell is normally relatively lively (even Kaprun has a couple of good bars)
Had a really good long weekend early December a couple of years back in Cervinia - but that might be a bit too far if you are driving - again you get the benefit of high slopes ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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doogo, Will look at Zell-am-See / Kaprun. Been to Cervinia in December before. thanks
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Something to bear in mind is that resorts often open according to demand at that time of year, rather than just according to snow conditions. So demand is likely to be higher in traditionally early opening resorts as people feel more secure booking to go there. Zell are advertising that they plan to open about half their lifts on the 21st or 28th November, and the rest on the 12th December, but they say 'all these plans are subject to conditions and customer demand'. The good thing about Zell is that there is plenty going on in town, even at this relatively low season time of year.
Based on the past few years of openings, I would add Schladming to your list, as they seem to pride themselves on opening early (October-November), and have excellent snow-making over a vast range of terrain, plus the Dachstein glacier is a fallback and is very close by. Again, as Schladming is a real town with a lift outside of skiing, you will find everything open for business in town and enough people in the bars and restaurants etc.
D
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RobinS, for more reasonable Arlberg prices try the Klostertal villages: Stuben, Langen, Klosterle, Wald, Dalaas, Braz (gets cheaper the further you go). Relatively easy driving from UK too. We paid €22pp per night for a nice apt with kitchen in Dalaas in season in early March.
You can ski locally at the Sonnenkopf between Wald and Klosterle(opens on 5th Dec), easy drive up to Stuben to access the Arlberg Ost/St Anton, or drive over the Flexenpass to Zurs or Lech for the Arlberg West (opens on 27th Nov), nice free car parks near the lifts at all of these, won't be busy in early Dec.
Could be quiet of an evening though, though trains run till late from St Anton to Langen (only 10 mins through the tunnel). Bludenz is a proper town down the valley too.
Bear in mind the snow tyre question??
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Deliaskis, Thanks for that - I was thinking that it would be annoying to go somewhere with lots of early snow, only to find that most lifts are shut mid-week because of lack of demand!
I'll have a look at Schladming as well.
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RobinS, I was in Obertauern around 12th of December 2 years ago and everything was open, masses of snow and rather busy everywhere.
Apres Ski was better and bars busier than in some places at the end of March for example.
Definitely felt like resort was in a full swing. It is a relatively snow-sure place maybe thats why.
There is around 100km of pistes there, you can ski everything in 2 days.
BUT if you are driving you might break the week with the visits to Schladming, Flachau or Zauchensee (all I believe 30-40min drive). You will need a Salzburger Land Ski Pass if you want to go to the other resorts.
Last 2 seasons I think all the resorts around Salzburg had lots of snow by December.
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Tom W, oh yes, I forgot Obertauern! Good early snow there and they're used to it so people flock there early on. Also Obergurgl would be worth a look, although it's more expensive than the more easterly resorts (but not as bad as Lech & St Anton).
D
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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RobinS, you could base yourself in Innsbruck as a 'city break' and drive to the surrounding local resorts, Kuhtai nearby at 2000m - 3000m could be a place to stay otherwise and the Stubai Glacier (maybe Schlick 2000 will be open), as you suggest, accessed from one of the valley towns would be very cheap for accom at that time of year.
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rayscoops, and December in Innsbruck is rather nice and festive! Good idea.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Deliaskis, winter christmas markets etc, the sound of music drifting down the streets, snow capped mountain vista ....... sounds good 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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St Anton
Early in December (first two weeks) not all the resort is open. Mountains bars are quiet. Ski bums looking for work.
Locals ski these weeks before the main season starts.
Apart from that its a nice time to ski
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rayscoops,
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winter christmas markets etc
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No No No, MrsS will only want to spend valuable skiing money (and time)  . I am a very anti-city person, even the nicest ones I am fed up after about half an hour. Also, while we have no problem driving to Austria, and wouldn't mind driving to get to some skiing we definitely want some on our doorstep. I haven't heard of Kuhtai - what's it like?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Had a look at Obertauern - but apartments there seem to be silly prices - well over 1000€ for that week 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Check out Serfaus website. They are doing a good 4.12.09 to 19.12.09 ski start deal
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Low altitude is always tricky this early into the winter. Most of times it's not a problem, but you can never be sure. Normally most of places have snow (natural or artificial) sometime in middle of December, but it already happened there was no snow, and no conditions to make snow till end of December. So if you want to be 100% sure, go with glaciers (Molltal, Kaprun, Soelden...).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RobinS, Yes, Obertauern is not that cheap as nearby resorts. Probably they charge more for the high altitude, ski in ski out accomodations and quality of snow.
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Go to France that early in the season.
Tignes or Val Thorens.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Go to France that early in the season.
Tignes or Val Thorens. |
Why? In the last 10 years that I have been following early season snow I can remember a few years when the early snow was here in Austria whereas France had very little. It's not unusual for Eastern Austria (Salzburg and East of) to see the first significant snow of the season.
Looking at where you could go than waiting to see where the snow is nearer the time is a good plan.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Whitegold,
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Go to France that early in the season.
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I knew it, it was only a matter of time 
I ask specifically for advice on early season Austria and someone suggests a couple of the most expensive resorts in France 
I have looked at snow records, and resort opening dates, and in recent years more resorts in Austria opened early, with snow, than in France. I know the resorts mentioned will be open, and in all likelihood have some snow, but after suffering the prices in Tignes, Les Arcs/La Plagne, and Val D'Isere last season I will only go back there if they have loads of snow and Austria is entirely green 
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I'm thinking more and more that Schladming might be the answer to your conundrum. It really is quite bargainous as it's not a big brit resort. There's also loads of accom and you will have the pick of it at that time of year, plus plenty going on in town. Loads of skiing scope on north-facing snow-holding slopes with impressive snow-making and historically early opening, plus the glacier a stones throw away just in case. Plus with the car, you can also ski Flachau and Zauchensee (my favourite best kept secret) if you want to.
OK, shutting up now.
D
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Deliaskis, No need to shut up - you continue to give good advice and information. I'll look at accommodation in Schladming as soon as I get a chance, but can anyone confirm the opening dates for the ski areas? I have looked on the website but can't find it anywhere? If it gets the snow it does look good - there is an awful lot of skiing there
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It says here http://www.planai.at/winter/102_5138_DEU_HTML.php?sprache=DEU that they plan to open the main Planai sector (the main mountain you get onto straight from town) on 20th November, and everything else on 4th December. The actual 'ski opening' party event thingy is on December 5th.
Weirdly though, it does say that the Glacier lift doesn't open until Christmas, so perhaps it would be best not to factor that into your decision in case it's not open. However, I would imagine that if there was a massive snow problem in the region they would cash in by opening the glacier.
D
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RobinS, Season starts in my neck of the woods on 27/11/09 and the official "Snow Mania" opening is on 04/12/09. Eastern Austria has been very fortunate in the last two seasons, with heavy snowfalls just at the ideal time in late November and perfect conditions during December. Having said that, it's obviously like playing roulette, so you would be very wise to adopt a 'wait and see' approach, monitor the live web cams and snow reports, and be ready with some likely options when the snow arrives. You may or may not need to aim high. Obviously there shouldn't be any problem finding suitable last minute accommodation at that time. Not a bad idea to keep an open glacier resort in mind, just in case, and Deliaskis' advice sounds eminently sensible.
As you may be aware, if you log onto the Ski Club of Great Britain website, you can search for historical snow depths at the resorts, and even if you're not a member, you can see what 2009's snow depths were in every week of the season.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I wouldn't book anything ahead of time. Rent a car and just show up where the snow is. At that time of year there is always plenty of accomodations to be had if you just turn up and the people will be happy to have you. There is usually one place in Austria which gets a massive early season dump. drive there and get an apartment after the day of skiing. Places that I reccomend to keep an eye on are Obertauern, Nassfeld, Molltal, Obertraun, St. Anton etc. If these places don't have snow you could always go to a gletcher like Kaprun or Stubai etc.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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luigi,
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RobinS,
If you want to ski in Obertauern but the accommodation is pricey it is not difficult to drive up from Radstadt in the valley and even closer from one or two outlying hamlets whose names I have forgotten.
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You know it makes sense.
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j, (and a few others)...
It is a shame that the Brits just don't believe in Austria and snow....
For the last 4 years I have been here my season pass has started in late November till the 1st May.
In Salzburgerland Reiteralm has opened in October, Schladming in on the 2nd ish of November, Obertauern always opens lateNovember or by 1st week of December. even my local lump is open in December but the busses don't start until Xmas week.
Any how... there is a much smaller demand which does limit lifts. Obertauern are hosts to a very, very popular German rock band which has made things very busy that week (4th December hence the high prices).
If there is no snow on a non-glacier resort within a 25min drive from my place by 5th December i will eat my hat and post the video on  's!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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First- I'm not a brit (thank god cuz I hate rain, shitty food and flat land). 2nd. I do believe in Austrian snow. I didnt mean to dissuade the OP from going to Austria early season. I would definately go. I go every year in early december (I'll be there Dec 10-Jan16th this year, where, I don't know yet  . My best weeks of skiing have been in Austria the weeks before christmas and the week after. Its usually cold and snowy which makes for good skiing. My only point is that you don't have to book ahead or decide where to go before hand. At that time of year there is really no reason to. St. anton has a great snow record but at that time of year you never know. I always look at where the snow has fallen and head there. Most often it is eastern Austria but not always. The resorts are empty and accomodations are a bargain. Also, being open and having good snow are a whole different ballgame. I've driven by Schladming in early december and they are always open and skiing on manmade. That is not real skiing IMO. And not worth the drive. While another area right down the road may have untracked Pow.
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Poster: A snowHead
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RobinS, have you seen this thread ? I am looking at Heathrow to Zurich on 6th Dec and heading to Austria, and deciding a bit closer as to exactly where I end up
http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=54684
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 13-10-09 9:57; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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flangesax, we enjoyed your Novemeber 'kids digging their way out of the house in snow' photos last season
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I've driven by Schladming in early december and they are always open and skiing on manmade. That is not real skiing IMO.
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Schaldming blasts and blasts the only visible run from the road from as early as possible... They then also ice and ice and ice it.... They then hold one of the biggest Night Slalom races of the FIS season in January...
The areas out of sight of the road in Schladming over the last 3 years have offered excellent conditions (although a bit too snowy and windy at times).
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