 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| dulcamara wrote: |
| hmm, I have the Grivel steel blade (plastic) shovel, think the guy in the shop convinced me using some sort of mind control... since then i've seen a lot of good reviews and some awards as well. But still not completely convinced! was i duped??? |
Can't say as I can't quite recall that model... but I would hazard that some light gauge metal ones aren't worth it..you'd be better off keeping a plastic one.. they can both bounce off sh*tty snow and that is the problem for them..but to have one crumple, is a double no-no..IMO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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seeing as these things don't change from year to year as every other product seems to, might be worthwhile if someone in the know did a shovel, probe, transceiver etc sticky in the gear section??
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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papasmurf, Actually beeps do change - witness the Pulse, which is easier to use when confronted with a multiple burial than my Tracker. Reading this thread has highlighted that shovels change, too.
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A metal shovel should be kept 'relatively' sharp too. Nothing 'ninja' is required, but running a rough file over the edge while prepping the rest of your kit helps massively when you're digging down through 3-4 metres of tree/ice/rock/and god only knows what else.
Metal rather than plastic any day imho.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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davidof, shhh... you will lure back he who must not be named.... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| fr0sty wrote: |
| A metal shovel should be kept 'relatively' sharp too. Nothing 'ninja' is required, but running a rough file over the edge while prepping the rest of your kit helps massively when you're digging down through 3-4 metres of tree/ice/rock/and god only knows what else...... |
Is the victim going to be alive with that lot on top? Genuine question - I suspect not, but accept I could be wrong. Perhaps davidof has some knowledge?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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At the risk of reawakening the goldsmith, I'm inclined to agree with DG Orf that a avy cord could potentially be a useful indicator as a locator for the start of a primary phase transceiver search, not unlike any skier related debris. Does this seem to be enough to make it recommended practice by today's avy professionals? - nope.
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You know it makes sense.
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fatbob, have you read the article davidof linked to? One bloke was in a shallow burial - but with the cord spooled around him, he could not get himself out.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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achilles, the answer is simply maybe and maybe not. However, if you're the chap on top of the flow watching your mate get buried, would you stop to make that call ? - or would you dig like f*ck because they might be buried under it and still be alive ?
I know which I would do, and you need the right tool to dig.
I've practised with weak plastic shovels and found that the neck snaps under the weight, the face of the blade snaps under the pressure, the handle detaches - all sorts. They become more of a hindrance than a help, and that's something you dont need when you're running out of time.
Out of all the non-metal ones I've tried, the one I found most resistant to the pressures was that flexi-bear claw thing - (looks like a curved frisbee disc or something). However, it was difficult to use compared to a shovel, especially when going deeper than a few feet.
Admittedly these were relatively 'cheap' non-metal substitutes, and modern poly-blends might be stronger. I can only speak from tests which I've done, and quite honestly the plastic models I tried weren't the high-end of the scale I suspect. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob, not sure if you saw the magnificent thread on that topic on the SCGB forum a few years back in which DG posted over 100 posts - and then the book he gave as evidence that they might be useful was shown to have been corrected in a subsequent edition to say there was no evidence of benefit at all. The occaisional anecdote isn't much use. Surely if we were going to encourage anything - rather than red string - it would be learning to organise searches better and to practice "strategic shovelling" ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| achilles wrote: |
Is the victim going to be alive with that lot on top? Genuine question - I suspect not, but accept I could be wrong. Perhaps davidof has some knowledge? |
The problem with statistics is that they focus on death and serious injuries where the external rescue services were involved rather than the guy buried under 2 meters of snow who was dug out with nary a scratch and then skied off.
If we assume the latter is comparatively rare then the statistics suggest that most people buried more than 100cm are toast. Just to remind you, the survival rate of a beacon wearer under LESS THAN 100cm of snow is around 60-50% and this drops to more like 20-10% over that depth. Remember that 50% figure next time you head for that nice powder with the comfort that you have a beacon in your pocket if the worst happens.
Why is that?
Well some will be killed by the slide or very shortly afterwards by the weight of snow. However locating someone under 100cm of snow is hard as is digging someone out. It all takes time. Obviously a trained group, who can shovel intelligently, and who are using a beacon that is accurate at deeper burials, will cut into this time.
Shovels, metal or plastic?
I wouldn't get too hung up on this. I have a metal shovel but my old Ortovox plastic shovel seemed up to the job (like the one in the video). Digging old avalanche debris is not a great guide, the snow in a fresh slide will be very compact but not something a real shovel, plastic or metal, should have major trouble with.
If you are looking to buy, go metal, with the longest arm you can manage.
The idea of swapping beacons is lame. What matters most is that the searcher can use and knows the beacon they are searching with. Just shoving a Pulse or whatnot into someone's paw with a couple of minutes explanation is a bad idea.
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FAQ
