New skis and boots- falling over- advice please

A snowHead

Some advice please.

In January I got some new boots- Black Diamond Factors and Skis - Line Prophet 90s- Great! Despite my advice to others I had never skied the Prophets before. Went to la Grave to ski a long weekend. As I was etting off on th efirst morning one of the group explained that the Germans at breakfast had looked depressed and withdrawn because a 40yr old father old father of 2 in thier group had fallen to his death the day before (I was a 40yr old father of 2- I'm now a 41yr old father of 3 my wife had been 6 months due at the time). I skied at la Grave- like a bag of poo-poo. Falling over- not able to get my tips round- especially in trees, lurching about on traverses. OK on wider turns in powder going fastish- but very twitchy generally.

Previously with my old (hides head in shame) salomon Folis and extra tight rossignol freeridexxs never any problems on/off psite skiing as fast as I could on and off piste fairly direct hardly ever falling over.

Several years ago tried some Movement Demon Flames- fell over in bumps.

Recently- went to Chill Factore in Manchester- tried bumps at the side- mostly ok but at least 2 prereleases (binding on Prophets- Dukes at din Cool

I am a short fat bloke- 5'7" 14stone (yes ) but can telemark all day without collapsing.

Obviously the Flames and the Prophets are much stiffer than the Foils I had no problems with.

Have I been stupid getting new skis? I had hoped thta the Propets would be better on piste (foils getting very flappy) and get a bit more speed off.

Do I just need to 'get on top of them' with a littl emore energy?

Is the DIN on the bindings too low with a stiffer ski - i am a fat b4st4rd?

Was I just totally psyched out ( I was quite psyched out- obviously had visions of bad things happening) but did not ski any individual bit at La Grave much steeper than stuff I had done previously (except couloir Gazex at serre Che)

Any other suggestions?

THanks snowheads.

A snowHead

being the boot guy...what about the boots>>> you mention extra tight rossignol freeride XX, how much control have you got in the boots, are your feet secure, or is there movement??

on the other hand the explaination could have just psyched you out as you say

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Ok edsilva, First off don't ever underestimate the power of freaking out on a day of skiing, it can turn all of us into nervous wrecks and completely shoots down your ability to perform the simplist tasks without thinking very hard about them (and this is really important in skiing) Also don't ever be ashamed of it. It happens to everyone from pro skiers to beginners, I was almost reduced to tears on an off piste run in Mayrhofen last year and had to ski down a super easy slope at 2 miles an hour to get out of there. Since then you have the chance to get back onto the horse and sort your confidence out, something i'm sure a whole new bag of unfamiliar toys isn't helping.

so from the top, your skis should be fine and a Din of 8 at 14 stone shouldnt be so bad (if you have very small feet this may effect it slightly) but i would get your bindings checked by a shop (with a release machine) If nothing else this will set your mind at ease.

Your choice of skis is not only ok for you its a hands down great choice in ski so don't worry about it, but they will ski differently to your old foils. Have a play, get down to the snow zone and practice all the little exersizes yo remember from when you started skiing, lifting legs, jumping, squirting your feet forward, flexing (important that one, you need to have loose ankles, something fear makes you forget) after a while i would be surprised if you dont feel a lot more confident on them....then try and get back to how good you really are. once there again you'll be MUCH safer on the slopes

You sound strong and fit enough, get your confidence back, loosen off a little (i will get shouted at for this but) one beer may help with this, it loosens you up but assuming your a brit and used to your liquor wont mess your coordination and thought patterns up.

If all else fails there are two friendly snowhead instructors here and at hemel im sure will be able to help, but and if rob@rar is busy washing his hair or skimottaret is still upset i took his skis give me a shout and i'll happily have a look for you.

MATT

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Very difficult to diagnose over the internet! So many variables.

I'm with CEM and think it is more than likely the boots, probably that they are too large a shell size - who fitted them? Any reasonable level of skier will be about to ski just about any ski out here to reasonable standard given proper fitting boots. No doubt the prophets reward strong skiing but we are definitely not talking FIS race skis level of unforgiving here and at 14 stone I seriously doubt they are too stiff. Ski tune problems are also usually only very evident on groomed hard snow, the only ski thing it could be is that the bindings are mounted too far back. A loss in confidence on compounds problems with skiing, you get tight and tentative when you should be committed and you sit back when you should be forward. Having our skis not doing what you want is a horrible feeling.

I would take your gear to chillfactore and do some fault finding: rent boots and try your skis then try your boots in their skis. This should give you a clear indication if it is one (or both?) bits of your gear or whether it is a technique issue. The priority then it to build back your confidence. Stick to low angle groomed stuff and build back up again.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

edsilva, It's obviously the skis, they're no good for you and dangerous; So I'll do you a favour and take them off you and let you have £50 to put to your replacement salomon Folis... wink

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Allignment???
Are you on the same binding? As well as fit boots might have different ramp too.

Storey in Mark Ellings book all mountain skier about this.
Short version he bought new skis and bindings skied like shite. Really put him in the back seat loads of thigh burn. Tips were diving in pow way too hooky on piste.
Raised toe piece binding 1/8th inch sorted tip dive but his stance became to tall and skis were like canal barges on piste. 1/16th inch under toe piece sorted.

So maybe if thesre has been a profound change in setup its affected you.
CEM would be able to say if this is likely an issue better than I would? But its a posability.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I agree with everyone else - freaking out can have a subtle but huge effect on your performance. I got really nervous once on a relatively straightforward red in Les Arcs (tiredness most probably) and my technique suddenly vanished. Which made the problem even worse because the worse I skied the worse I felt...a vicious cycle. I've also had the same thing happen on technically easy climbs - again I fell apart and struggled on something which I should have breezed up.

Skis can make a difference too in my opinion - a few seasons ago I ended up on a pair of K2 Fugi's. Bad mistake, they ski like a Sherman tank. Things got better once I got used to them, but they really weren't any fun for the first few runs on them.

Could it possibly have been a combination of nerves and new skis (assuming your boots are well-fitted)?

After all it is free

edsilva, excuse my ignorance, but I'm surprised you say you didn't ski anything much steeper than Colouir Gazex in Serre Che. From looking at it from the bottom, it doesn't appear to be that steep (I may be very wrong). I would have thought come with the reputation of La Grave the colouirs would have been much more steeper.

Englighten me please snowHead

Since you mention pre-release issues too, how is the toe height on the dukes set? The binding toe height is adjusted by turning a screw to slide the front anti-friction device (the little plate under the toe of the boot) up and down a ramp.

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Christopher, I think the form is that the couloirs get much safer with deeper snow later in th eseason.

this is someoneelses picture of gazex

[img]http://home2.btconnect.com/anniviers/PhotoAlbums/LaGrave2008/IMG_2686.JPG [/img]

thanks for all the tips;

boots fairly tight especially around the fore foot- not too much room at the heels and the inner boot is cunning. But the Factors are a size bigger than my old Rossis- but they were very very tight- and small jump and my toe smashed the front.

Bindings may not have been screwed on very straight by ski shop.- one is visibly off centre.

Have not looked at toe height etc.

Skis are much stiffer than old foils- very good and fast on piste- but quite unforgiving in comparison. Also a bit longer (Foils were 166 Prophets 177).

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

edsilva, The foils are a nice light easy pair of skis to get around in tight spots providing it isn't really icy. I find switching between mine and other skis I have quite difficult.

So why did you stop using them?

Was it sheer shame? wink

stoatsbrother, YES Embarassed

You know it makes sense.

I know that picture and the guys in it... and it is only the top that is quite steep but it would be comparable to a few LG gullies..

I'd agree that a new set-up can throw all sorts out... as it has with me.. and I woulds also vnrture that altitude at LG can kick in quite easily.
It is a very tiring place...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

edsilva,

skiing is meant to be fun... just put duct tape over the top of them and say they are a special pair of radical stunt skis you are beta-testing for Salomon... wink

Anyway - I have had days when my head isn't in the right place (usually up my arse) - and it doesn't work, espescially in trees. You start looking at the trees - you start eating the trees. Don't stress it. Cool

A snowHead

Foils. Bloody great skis in my opinion. Sometimes we forger where skis came from a mere 6 or 7 years ago.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Equipment forum rolling eyes

edsilva, you shouldn't be prereleasing on an indoor slope with bindings set to 8 so it sounds like you're Duke's need checking. Duke's need to have their toe height setting & forward pressure set very precisely to function correctly. The toe height needs setting first (with a reasonable amount of forward pressure) but the boot's toe lug really needs to be hoiked up tight under the toe piece when this is done if not then what appears to be a correct fit (0.5mm clearance) could actually be more like 2mm & you'll walk out of the bindings, especially in bumps. This is even more important if you've got the vibram AT soles fitted to your boots. Once the toe height has been set correctly then the final adjustment of the forward pressure can be made. The few Duke shop mounts I've seen have had insufficient forward pressure as when set correctly there's zero clearance between the back of the boots & the heelpiece when clicking in the boots & shops aren't use to seeing that as most bindings have a mm or two of clearance. If your supplier can't mount the bindings straight then it's likely they won't have these set correctly. I've also found that the heel release tends to be a bit lighter on Dukes & I've often had to up them by half to one din to get the correct release setting, although I wouldn't suggest looking at that until you know that the above adjustments are spot on first.

I'd also check that the fore/aft position of the binding on the ski as they may have screwed that up too. Click you boot in to the binding & check that the boot centre mark is were you want it on the ski. Check both skis to see if they're the same by using a taught tape measured of the ski's tip just incase the top sheet on the skis has been misaligned during manufacture which happens more that you'd think.

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spyderjon, thanks- I didn't know which as there were quite a few variables- me , my mind, skis, boots, terrain!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Agree that the Dukes are difficult..or rather not easy to set-up. I had a pre-release in the fridge and also on tame bumps..... FFS...!!!!!! I just stepped forward out of them on both occasions.
When I made the adjustment on the mountain, I nearly pulled my calf muscle as the binding did not release at all when it should have done. I got away with it that time... but later on I didn't and missed 2 days skiing because of it...

I have since had the bindings looked at but will go to the extras steps as above...

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Update;

bindings remounted (straight) and toe height reset. Skis/boots/bindings taken to Chamonix last week. No pre-releases. Still different to my old foils (which are now used to telemark with- and are great). Need more effort toi ski although this is getting much better. Skied the falline of Charles Bozon in deepish cut up powder without problems.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

ed123,

After all it is free

Skiing is a confidence sport and Foils were were very forgiving the time I tried them. I thought they were the near perfect on-piste/off-piste combination. The truth is you can not waste both on any ski in my experience, whatever the blurb. Sounds like you asked trhe right questions and got the right answers. Very specific answers, well done

spyderjon,

As far as the skis go, I've been skiing regularly on very similar Prophet 100s for the past 2 seasons and never found them difficult to ski. Considering their width and length (186 in my case) I find them light and nimble in the trees. Maybe going from very forgiving Foils to Prophets is showing up a minor glitch or bad habit in your technique? A session with a pro instructor might answer this, but that would be my guess.

Help!!

New skis and boots- falling over- advice please

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