 Poster: A snowHead
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Ok - here's the dilemna.
We are going on our first family ski holiday with snowbizz in January with 7 year old twins , a boy and a girl. We are fairly experienced skiers but this is their first time and we are pretty desperate for them to enjoy it and get the bug - for obvious reasons
We are considering booking some beginners classes for them at the chill factor before we go. Advantages will be they should be skiiing form day one of the holiday and will possibly be skiing with us after 2 or 3 days of the holiday.
However we are a little concerned about them not enjoying the initial introduction and will be put off somehow.
Am I trying to push them too much? Should I leave Snowbizz to it as I know they have an excellent reputation for beginners?
What have other people done? 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 11-09-09 21:01; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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paulfaz, welcome to Snowheads.  Your twins should be an ideal age to start. I can well understand your dilemma - there are arguments either way, as you point out. What do the twins think about it? If you're fairly near chill factor, maybe let them watch a bit and see what they think - they're old enough to have an opinion. You can explain that it's quite expensive, and that skiing in a fridge is not as much fun as skiing on a real mountain, but would mean they could have a practice before they go and that you're willing to pay for them to go if they would really like to. If they're keen - go ahead. If they seem a bit reluctant, I'd give it a miss.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulfaz, welcome to , I found that lessons before familiarised them with all the strange equipment and gear- just made it so much easier when they got there and at least knew how to put on skis...If at all affordable and possible let them do one or two before you go. It does not take the place of lessons at resort, just helps!
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paulfaz, welcome, agree with all the above. Getting the children used to the kit before your trip is a big plus. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mmmm...
In what way do you think the Chill Factore is going to be so much worse than the resort that it puts your kids off?
For hardened skiers maybe the CF is limiting but for a beginner there's a lot to be said for it. It's a controlled, fairly familiar environment that is near to home and comfort. The standard of teaching is good - it's a BASI centre of excellence. Most of the instructors I've seen work really well with kids and Barbara is especially good with them.
I say book 'em in for a day lesson and get the most out of your holiday.
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paulfaz, Welcome to snowheads.
Go easy on them, and they should grow to love it in their own good time. Lessons before they go is good, make sure it's with other kids. On snow, don't be tempted to teach them yourself, but get them used to following you during their time off lessons. Ski places THEY want to ski (kids seem to like small bumps and rollers, tracks through trees at the side of pistes....), share your enthusiasm with them for everything skiing-related. Don't push them into anything they're not ready for, but keep challenging them. This worked well for our kids (now 11 and 15) - they now enjoy skiing with the local ski patrollers!
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| Quote: |
hey now enjoy skiing with the local ski patrollers!
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fantastic!
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paulfaz, Welcome to Snow Heads
We (well, I....) took our boys at ages 7 and 5, away to France for a couple of days before we embarked on the full family trip (Mr A was reluctant as he didn't think they'd take to it  ). It was a real benefit in that they had the experience of getting used to the boots and skis (it's easy to forget how alien they feel, when you're a seasoned skier), good tuition, loved the snow and messing about it in before/after lessons etc., so that when we did do the full family trip, they were keen as mustard and took to it brilliantly. We now all ski together, which is fantastic, and they actually ski more than their dad! If for no other reason than letting them try out the boots and the feel of sliding, I think the fridge is a good idea. If they like it, they'll love the real thing!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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paulfaz, book them in for lessons yes, just getting used to the clobber can be useful.
They will get tired easily and possibly sooned than you think when in the Alps particularly if they have had lessons - so make sure you have a supply of choc on hand and finish earlier than you think. Make sure you leave time for them just to play in the snow as well, sledging, build a snowman etc.
The only down side, I' ve got twin boys and they now ski better than me
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Thanks for the advice all! Good to know chill factor lessons are decent then - didn't know they did children only classes??
I have no concerns about my boy as he's physically quite strong but I have with my daughter - she's quite small and slender and we we regularly tire her out on bike rides etc!!
Good point about the playing in the snow - it's this that they are looking forward to most!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| paulfaz wrote: |
| Should our kids learn before they go? |
No.
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Hi paulfaz,
In the UK most instructors will be BASI (British Association of Snowsports Instructor). To gain any of the various qualifications issued by BASI, they will need to know and fully understand a progression known as the Central Theme. (CT)
The CT is not the be all and end all of ski teaching but it does give a good structure to learning to ski.
If you want the progression its Introductory activities -> Sliding -> Ploughing -.> Plough Turning -> Plough Parallel -> Parallel Turning. After this there are a number other bits (beyond the CT).
Anyway, the point is, your kids are at an age when the 1st "bit" (Introductory activities) could include lots of games, jumping around on skis, stretching up and down, catching snowballs whilst on skis and anything else you can think of hats fun.
So, as you say you are fairly experienced skiers you may want to look at just taking them to a snow dome for an hours and having some fun doing some introductory activities yourself. There will always be an instructor or 2 somewhere around if you need some tips.
Then when they are used to "feel" of having the huge planks of wood strapped to their feet you could book a lesson or 2 so that (as lots of people have said) they would be better prepared and so will (again) have more fun whilst on holiday
PS. (sorry just thought). I don't know what the rules are about this type thing at Chill Factor so you may want to call them 1st just to check.
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You know it makes sense.
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yes
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wayne, you're right beginners at CFe (and all other indoor slopes) will have to take part in organised lessons, you can't teach them yourself. Before you can ski there independently you need to be able to make controlled linked turns from the top of the main slope.
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Poster: A snowHead
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paulfaz, definitely get lessons in uk before heading off. And get them to practise putting their ski gear on too
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| Wayne, you're right beginners at CFe (and all other indoor slopes) will have to take part in organised lessons, you can't teach them yourself. Before you can ski there independently you need to be able to make controlled linked turns from the top of the main slope. |
That's the same at The Snow Centre in Hemel, and Milton Keynes as well IIRC.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar and beanie1 sorry, didn't know the rules. Thanks
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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paulfaz, I see you are in Lancashire, have you ever heard of Pendle ski club, small friendly private club on the side of Pendle hill near Clitheroe. Consider them although it is only a dry slope, the beginers area is snow flex, which wont hurt when they fall. http://www.pendleskiclub.org.uk/. My kids learned to ski here albeit at an older age and by the time they went on their 1st holiday they were just about carving (in a fashion) probably had over a dozen lessons. On holiday both went straight into an advanced group of lessons and after the 1st day held their own. Cant reccomend them enough.
BTW no commercial interest, not even a member now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The younger they start the better! I bet they will be shredding in a few years time! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| beanie1 wrote: |
| Wayne, you're right beginners at CFe (and all other indoor slopes) will have to take part in organised lessons, you can't teach them yourself. Before you can ski there independently you need to be able to make controlled linked turns from the top of the main slope. |
That's the same at The Snow Centre in Hemel, and Milton Keynes as well IIRC. |
The dry slope I currently work at plus another in the local area that I used to teach at will not allow anyone on the hill to ski (practice) unless they can use the lift and make controlled plough turns. Our slope will also not let anyone do any teaching unless they work at the slope. It was the same at the other slope too.
I would imagine most places are the same.
I would echo other thoughts on this post, go and get some lessons for the kids before and have a great time on holiday!
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| snowaddict wrote: |
| Our slope will also not let anyone do any teaching unless they work at the slope. |
Does that include parents just playing games with their own kids at the bottom of the nursery slope.
Sorry, not complaining, just interested in how it works.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| snowaddict wrote: |
| Our slope will also not let anyone do any teaching unless they work at the slope. |
Does that include parents just playing with own kids at the bottom of the nursery slope.
Sorry, not complaining, just interest how it works. |
At Hemel we don't stop any informal teaching (families, friends, etc) providing that everyone is competent enough to use the main slope (ie, use a drag lift unaided, control speed and direction when skiing). What is not allowed is for people who are not instructors at Hemel to use the nursery slope to teach family or friends. I don't know the exact reason for this but I'd guess it's partly to do with safety (keeping the number of people as low as possible on the nursery slope, as well as stopping unqualified people teaching) and partly commercial (it costs a lot to build a snowdome and the income from selling lessons is an important part of the business model).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Kids shouldn't be allowed to ski, they clutter up the slopes 
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| Kel wrote: |
paulfaz, I see you are in Lancashire, have you ever heard of Pendle ski club, small friendly private club on the side of Pendle hill near Clitheroe. Consider them although it is only a dry slope, the beginers area is snow flex, which wont hurt when they fall. http://www.pendleskiclub.org.uk/. My kids learned to ski here albeit at an older age and by the time they went on their 1st holiday they were just about carving (in a fashion) probably had over a dozen lessons. On holiday both went straight into an advanced group of lessons and after the 1st day held their own. Cant reccomend them enough.
BTW no commercial interest, not even a member now. |
Forgot about Pendle, a friend of mine learnt there a couple of years ago prior to going on a lads trip to Cham with us and raved about it. I'll look into it - cheers for that..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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paulfaz, I usked to ski at Pendle when visiting relatives up there a fair bit, had a great time and most of my lessons there. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's a no brainer. Get them in lessons before you go. Our 8 year old has had lessons at a dry slope every year in the run up our family skiing holiday. She also has lessons in the mornings on holiday. We now see her waving to us on steep reds without a care in the world.
The more time kids spend on skis the more they will enjoy the holiday.
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My first ski holiday was one of my most memorable ones. Learning to ski in the mountains with a bunch of other folk starting from scratch is a great laugh. Every day you would progress and learn something new, stopping without falling over, getting on your first drag lift, all a big adventure. Just as satisfying as blasting through deep powder on a bluebird day is now. So, I guess I disagree that people will necessarily get more out of it they learn before they go.
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You know it makes sense.
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paulfaz, welcome to s. I have done both with my son, CFe lessons and holiday with Snowbizz.
CFe Kids Club highly recommended, there are other kids around, the instructors are a great bunch, the kids do make real progress quickly. They will have a head start for when they get out there.
Having said that, if it doesn't fit in for you don't worry because Snowbizz ski school is fantastic, the complete beginners group I observed when we were there last year spent only the first morning in the nursery area and then they were off out up the chair. Also you will have the option for the odd extra one hour private lesson for the kids before or after the group if you want, they are reasonably priced and I saw quite a few kids doing this.
Feel free to PM me about either of them if you like.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| JDC wrote: |
| My first ski holiday was one of my most memorable ones. Learning to ski in the mountains with a bunch of other folk starting from scratch is a great laugh. Every day you would progress and learn something new, stopping without falling over, getting on your first drag lift, all a big adventure. |
But the adventure doesn't stop at the end of your first week of ski lessons does it? I've always have loads fun in a group lesson, regardless of whether it was my first time or classes for experienced skiers. Taking some lessons in advance of your first trip doesn't mean that you can't have fun in a group lesson when you get there; it just means you're likely to see more of the resort than if you start from scratch.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I dont think you need to see "more of the resort" when youre starting out. My point is you can have a great holiday just learning to ski. But if your aim is to improve your skiing as quickly as possible and cover more terrain, yes I agree.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| JDC wrote: |
| t. My point is you can have a great holiday just learning to ski. |
Yes, I agree entirely.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't think it's a "no brainer". Kids may well take to skiing better in an environmet where it's not the "be-all and end-all", where there's all the novelty of the mountains, the chairs going up the hills, the piste bashers, snow to dig and play in and build snowmen, a slope to much around on a toboggan after skiing (often one of their favourite bits of the holiday). Depending on the child, learning in that environment might be more fun than learning in a fridge. I think the OP's query was perfectly reasonable. My older son failed, in 4 years of my taking him regularly to Dorking baths, to have the confidence to put his face in the water and start to swim properly. It took him 3 days in the Caribbean.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We did a single intro session with our 5yo at MK two weeks before our first ski trip last Xmas with only the aim of introducing her to the feel of the snow, getting in and out of her clobber, the feel of a helmet, her goggles, her gloves etc and what it was like to carry a pair of ski's, clomp about in ski boots and walk and stand on snow, with and without ski's on.
We thought it was invaluable to take the edge of the strangeness of it all but weren't at all worried about her actually learning any skills. It mostly helped her understand what to expect when we went out for real.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar,
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the income from selling lessons is an important part of the business model
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It seems that promoting Hemel snowdome on snowHeads is also an important part of the business model!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| xyzpaul wrote: |
rob@rar,
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the income from selling lessons is an important part of the business model
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It seems that promoting Hemel snowdome on snowHeads is also an important part of the business model! |
If that is widely thought to be the case I'll stop doing it. I certainly don't want to get a reputation for over-zealous spamming of the forum, so if admin or any of the Mods would like me to stop talking about Hemel I'm only too pleased to comply.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| beanie1 wrote: |
| Wayne, you're right beginners at CFe (and all other indoor slopes) will have to take part in organised lessons, you can't teach them yourself. Before you can ski there independently you need to be able to make controlled linked turns from the top of the main slope. |
That's the same at The Snow Centre in Hemel, and Milton Keynes as well IIRC. |
I've seen people being allowed to casually coach their friends at Hemel, seems to be the norm.
However at Milton Keynes I got an absolute bollocking from one of the acne-ridden Piste Patrol nazis simply for helping sig. other up after she'd fallen over and giving her a couple of verbal tips, and shirtily told - in an only partially broken voice - that if we needed lessons we could book them at reception.
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Whoops, I just promoted the Hemel Snow Centre!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, I think your bang on.
You've got to weigh up whether you want them to learn quickly or whether you think they will enjoy the experience of learning in the snow more than on an mat where if you fall over it hurts a lot and could put them off skiing. I personally think if they are adventorous types take them along beforehand. If you're worried that they might take a while to get enthusiastic about it all, I would let them learn in resort.
I learnt in my early teens. I went for about 6 lessons at Gloucester dry slope, it meant I was no longer a complete begginer when I took to the real snow covered slopes after my initial shock at how slippy snow was compared to skiing on a big toothbrush
Asking them what they think might be a good idea.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| xyzpaul wrote: |
rob@rar,
| Quote: |
the income from selling lessons is an important part of the business model
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It seems that promoting Hemel snowdome on snowHeads is also an important part of the business model! |
If that is widely thought to be the case I'll stop doing it. I certainly don't want to get a reputation for over-zealous spamming of the forum, so if admin or any of the Mods would like me to stop talking about Hemel I'm only too pleased to comply. |
xyzpaul is way out of order  - what is evident on here is a partnership between snowHeads and Hemel which, thanks entirely to your good offices, is working brilliantly. Carry on!
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