 Poster: A snowHead
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Just a thought at the moment.
Whilst it is normal to take a ski holiday from weekend to weekend. What are your thoughts on Monday to Monday (or Friday to Friday, Tues -> Tues, etc)?
Say this as we are looking at hiring a few aircraft for 2011 but the landing fees for the weekend would mean that we couldn't compete with the TO's that own their own planes. But, Monday to Monday (due to the high availability), the wet hire charges and slot fee are low enough to make it a go'er, maybe.
As an example (don't quote me on this BTW) it would mean half term fully inclusive (flight, 3*hotel, ski hire, lift pass, etc) for around £600 - but we understand the problem with kids out of school for that extra day.
But (outside half term) would the Monday to Monday cause any other problems?
Does anyone have any thoughts?
Thanks for any input you can give
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You mean in your capacity as a TO, not as a punter right?
A day of annual leave is worth "monthly net / 20", for people who think in those terms. That's £hundreds for most skiers I should think. Personally I would (and indeed have) travel mid week if it meant a saving on the hol.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As an option I think it's great, provided that you make it possible to resolve the ski-lessons  but suggest you don't make it compulsory as not everyone can take 6 days holiday from work for a weeks holiday.
I know of a popular independent windsurf TO that on being acquired by a major brand definitely lost custom as a result of moving their traditional Sunday flights to Friday. Following year moved back to Sunday
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Do you *only* do New Year and Half Term? That's weird.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Getting kids even 1 extra day off school could be a problem for some. Schools are very strict on this now.
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| Colin B wrote: |
| Getting kids even 1 extra day off school could be a problem for some. Schools are very strict on this now. |
At the moment we are looking at having all the hotels empty for 1 day (so the half term flow) would still run over weekend to weekend. It’s the rest of the season we are mainly looking at Mon to Mon. But just keeping 6 large hotels empty for 1day is a cost of well over €50.000 (so we need to think about this)
| paulio wrote: |
| Do you *only* do New Year and Half Term? That's weird. |
At the moment we do - and have done for the last 7 years. But  , our bookings hav risen year on year and this year (for 2010) are up by over 38% on last year, so it seems to work.
But, we are "thinking" at the moment about running a full season for 2011.
But we have noticed that virtually all TO's that go belly up do so due to a lack of low season bookings (even though the overheads are still there).
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Whenever we are making up our own trips we always travel outside the weekends because the flights are much cheaper - but then we have flexible work and no kids so it's much easier.
You may be better off doing Friday to Friday. I note that some UK cottages are rented on this basis - presumably so they can rent out for a long weekend if a whole week can't be had.
When we traveled by Snowtrain we used to leave home on the Friday morning.
Probably like many others, I prefer to have more time to spare when I get back so I can get sorted properly.
Getting Fridays off work is generally a bit easier - not sure about school though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Colin B wrote: |
| Getting kids even 1 extra day off school could be a problem for some. Schools are very strict on this now. |
From that POV, it could work for Half term, as many schools have "inset" days the first day back after half term, so the kids would not be in school that Monday anyhow.
And outside half term/school holidays, that shouldn't be an issue, because you wouldn't be taking the kids (would you?) 
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Just some info on St.Anton - the whole resort pretty much revolves around a Sat - Sat change over day and it is very hard to get anything other than that. People sometimes make the mistake of booking their flights outside of these days and then have big problems trying to find accommodation!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| altis wrote: |
Whenever we are making up our own trips we always travel outside the weekends because the flights are much cheaper - but then we have flexible work and no kids so it's much easier.
You may be better off doing Friday to Friday. I note that some UK cottages are rented on this basis - presumably so they can rent out for a long weekend if a whole week can't be had.
When we traveled by Snowtrain we used to leave home on the Friday morning.
Probably like many others, I prefer to have more time to spare when I get back so I can get sorted properly.
Getting Fridays off work is generally a bit easier - not sure about school though. |
Excellent points, thanks
Although Friday Wet Hires and Slots are not much different to Sat/Sun so there doesn't seem to be that much reason to use em.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| sidneyreilly wrote: |
| Just some info on St.Anton |
But Wayne operates in Folgarida.
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| sidneyreilly wrote: |
| Just some info on St.Anton - the whole resort pretty much revolves around a Sat - Sat change over day and it is very hard to get anything other than that. |
But as we would take the whole hotel for the whole season that wouldn't be the case here. We could do change over's on any day we wanted.
The thing is that "most" (not all - on here ) people still want a 7 day holiday. So change over days would need to be set as MOn/Tues/Wed/etc we asked a few people and apart from Fri/Sat/Sun the most prefered day was Mon.
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You know it makes sense.
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Wayne, It would work much better over Easter where you could do Fri-Fri or Mon-Mon (using Good Friday or bank hol Monday) so not having to take that extra day leave. ???
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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masmith, Thanks for that. Good point.
We have never run at Easter up to now.
All the responses are getting put into a Pro's/Con's thingy.
Up to now it is heavily weighted towards the Con's (reasons not to do this) but we'll see in a few weeks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Wayne wrote: |
| As an example (don't quote me on this BTW) it would mean half term fully inclusive (flight, 3*hotel, ski hire, lift pass, etc) for around £600 - but we understand the problem with kids out of school for that extra day. |
How much of a saving is that over a traditional Sat-Sat week ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, I agree with the Easter idea.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wayne, Back to Easter, is it a fair assumption to say that it would be the last week of the season ? If so, moving from Sat changeover to Mon changeover for that week may not be a major headache (as there would be no need to 'switch back' at the end of that week)
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| masmith wrote: |
| How much of a saving is that over a traditional Sat-Sat week ? |
That’s what we are looking at. We would need to attract people that would normally go elsewhere or into another type of accommodation.
Whilst some people prefer chalet holidays for the group/family thing there are many that do it due to the costs of a 3* or 4* hotel. We would need to get the cost down so that self drive chalet people would be attracted and also to make the price also attractive to people who have not considered Italy due to the perceived higher costs that say Bulgaria, Slovenia.
Having said that we still have to A] run at a profit and B] give people a quality holiday. This year we had over 70% return bookings within 3 weeks of the clients returning home.
My personal opinion is that this is a non-starter. The cost / Quality thing is (maybe) insurmountable. Of course we could stick people in a dump and do the flights at 3am and cut out the free lift pass and have 50 people per ski class (well maybe not) but you get the point. I don't think that, even with a vastly reduced flight/transfer cost it will be possible to keep up the standards and reduce the cost to such a degree that would attract the people who normally ski in January
But you have to look at everything. So thanks for your feedback it's really useful to get lots of people's opinions, keep em coming
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| We would need to attract people that would normally go elsewhere or into another type of accommodation. |
add to that people who would normally not consider travelling at half term - many families avoid half term week completely due to the high costs. Many of whom choose to ski during term time, thus taking kids out of school for 5 days. If there was an affordable option for them to ski at half term and reduce the time out of school to just 1 day, then I guess you could be looking at another prospective client base as well.
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masmith,
Yep, you got it in 1.
Our business model is to not run loss making trips which means we don’t have to increase our prices to cover these loses (ie, staff in resort with hardly any clients)
We only run (and have overheads) during the most popular weeks of the ski season. This means (to make a reasonable mark up on sale cost) we don’t have to increase our prices to cover un-met overheads during low season.
We understand that it’s not just the quality of the trips that attracts people during half term / new year but also (probably mainly) the sale price.
Not all TO’s are horrid (I understand that some people on this forum will disagree with that BTW ). There are real people with real mortgages, kids, bills, etc, etc that need paying. But to keep going (and growing) you need to look at new methods all the time. So your input is really using
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I went Thur to Thur last year and it was great because the roads to the mountains were really quiet. The guys who drove the mini-bus reckoned they were getting more requests for mid week transferes as well - much to their dismay because that was half a day skiing that they lost out on 
That said though I dont have kids but i do have a mate who is taking her kids out of school for 5 days to go skiing in Jan because she cant afford the holiday prices. As a consumer then the more choice th better as far as I am concerned although i appreiate that choice does not always pay the bills.
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Sunshine81,
Can I ask you a question which you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
When you went Thurs how much did you pay (fully inclusive) in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Are you disputing that it's unusual amongst tour operators to do so?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The difficulty for most people would be six days off work instead of five. But other than that I can't see any real problems.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| paulio wrote: |
| Are you disputing that it's unusual amongst tour operators to do so? |
I have worked here since 1984 and we have made a profit every single year.
Check out our treks. We run the Inca Trail, Everest Base Camp, Kilimanjaro and Grand Canyon.
Why don't we run others ?
Answer = for the same reason that we only run high season ski holidays.
We operate the 4 and 3 peaks challenges (we take more than all other operators put together)
Why don't we run other challenges ?
Answer = for the same reason that we only run high season ski holidays.
I have made over 2,000 ascent of Ben Nevis with clients
Why don't people want to walk up another mountain ?
Answer = for the same reason that we only run high season ski holidays.
We are still independent (and operating flights to Italy next year ????) not many others can say that after 25 years.
But, of course we are always looking at other "stuff" hence the request for feedback on the latest idea.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 9-09-09 13:00; edited 2 times in total
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paulio, "unusual" <> "Weird"
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You know it makes sense.
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I've got this funny keyboard, I don't know what's wrong with it. I type - for example - the word 'unusual' and it seems to come out on everyone else's displays as the word 'stupid' and makes them argue against a statement that I didn't actually make. Do any of the techies here know how I could fix this?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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paulio,
IT's OK, as I agree with you. We are a little wierd 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kel, not if you have exclusive use of the the hotel, and are paying the hotelier for the privilege
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| Kel, not if you have exclusive use of the the hotel, and are paying the hotelier for the privilege |
He only wants the hotel for New Year Week and Half term week, that's my point.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wayne, my friend phoned this morning, she wants to come away with us for New Year but that would mean flying out on boxing day which she doesnt want to do. Had a look around for a Sunday to Sun option but it's a no go.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Shimmy Alcott, are flights your problem, or accommodation?
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| Wayne, my friend phoned this morning, she wants to come away with us for New Year but that would mean flying out on boxing day which she doesnt want to do. Had a look around for a Sunday to Sun option but it's a no go. |
They didn't call us, for new year we "only" run sun to sun (27th departure) so they would have had no problems
Maybe you have us mixed up with another TO ?
| Kel wrote: |
| I would have thought that the major stumbling block would be persauding the hotelier |
No there is no problem there. As skiing only make up 2% of what we do we tend to have the ability to be a little more flexible/generous with the amount of deposits we can pay. Hoteliers are in business as well and we can help with their cash flow. Everyone gains.
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Wayne, I like the idea in principle, quiet roads for transfer, get to ski the quiet days on the slopes etc etc. But for me (solo traveller - no kids) it would mean an extra day off work, plus the pain of returning from holiday with no time to take a breath, do the washing etc before having to go straight back to work. This would be a major pain from my point of view (I'm not keen on Sun/Sun for this reason) with the added con that it would limit the amount of weeks I could take as each one would take 6 days instead of 5. So it's a no from me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Schuss in Boots,
Good points as well. I didn't consider the "hassle" effect of returning home without some time to get sorted before its back into things at work.
Thanks for the comment
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Fri-Fri would be better. Bunk off work at 4pm on a Friday (maybe working extra hours another day to make up shortfall) rather than taking a complete extra day as annual leave. And you get a whole weekend to faff about and do the laundry afterwards.
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FAQ
