 Poster: A snowHead
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Well be careful.
We just passed yesterday through araba and corvare and I am not regretting the snow tires 
With the tires on the previous car I would have had to put snowchains
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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flangesax,
Height is important to UK skiers because the majority will come without their own transport and stuck with the choice of the resort. I would say a large number of continental skiers would have their transport and are more mobile. Therefore poor snow at one location does not affect them much.
If the snow is poor then part of the facility could be close as it did in one Christmas when I visited Bad Gastein.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Samerberg Sue,
Your assertion that
"A snowline of 1000m in the Haute Savoie equates to one of 700m in western Austria"
does confirm my experience and that is why I have been skiing in Austria in recent years.
I am leaving Ski Amade low down in priority because my interest in Tirol area like Zillertal Valley, St Anton/Lech, Ischgl, Serfaus/Fiss/Ladis, Ski Welt, Kitzbuhel etc. My experience with the Salzburg resorts is limited to Zell am See/Kaprun, Saalbach/Hiterglemm and Bad Gastein.
This year I am trying it out Ski Amade by staying in Flachau for a week.
Ski Amade is a huge area with many resorts unlinked and spread out. It is impossible to sample the area adequately in one trip but it would be somewhere to start with in my case.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Samerberg Sue,
I chose Flachau for two reasons.
(1) I can go to the East side to ski Zauchensee, Radstadt, Fageralm/Forstau, Schladming, Ramsau/Dachstein. Going to the West side I can sample Wagrain, Alpendorf and St Johnann. It is appromixately right at the middle.
(2) Flachau is right on the trunk route A10 and handy for me to get to Arabba in Italy.
I have order a set of winter tyres. Hope it will arrive before I set off in 10 days time. The bad weather in UK has resulted winter tyres sought after as gold dust. They are sold at a premium and some brands have to be ordered from Germany after they ran out of stock in UK. The stock tyres, only done 6000 miles, in my Subaru are between summer and all-season tyres. They are adequate for the UK bad weather but I feel safer with the proper equipment.
People are complaining about the snow in UK but this is everyday driving condition in the Alps, especially in Austria.
Looking forward to sample Anne-Marie Moser-Pröll at her seriously dangerous Café and cake shop in Kleinarl. According to the piste map I have to go to Flachauwinkl first, take the chairlift to the top of Mooskopt and then ski down to Kleinarl. Is her place close to the bottom lift? I could take the car to Kleinarl on the day I ski Wagrain.
I would be interesting to visit her cafe even it has been sold as she is the most famous Austrian female skier.
By the way thanks for your traffic links in the Rotterdam to Zell am See thread. They are very useful.
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| saikee wrote: |
Samerberg Sue,
People are complaining about the snow in UK but this is everyday driving condition in the Alps, especially in Austria.
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I wish, not at the moment. Hopefully that will change this weekend when snow is forecast.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Samerberg Sue, Sorry, not sure what happend on the who quoted what thing. I hear that Zauchanee and Wagrain are in better shape than schladming area at the moment. Heading to Zauchansee today so can let you know later. Maybe on another forum as probably going off topic here.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
Whereas a bit of basic knowledge of geographical principles would help with the understanding that the further you are from the temperate influences of a maritime climate, the more extreme the climate conditions. A snowline of 1000m in the Haute Savoie equates to one of 700m in western Austria, and lower again in eastern areas nearer to Wien.
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That's very true.
It is also a fact that the further you get away from a maritime climate, the drier the atmosphere is. If there is high terrain between you and the weather's source, this is even more the case as the precipitation will have occurred before it gets to you. Austria gets its big dumps from low pressure systems in the north east Mediterranean. The risk from these is that they will drop as rain.
Because you lose c. 5degC per 1000m of vert, height takes some beating. The Pyrenees are the perfect example of this, so is western Canada, Alaska and the USA. The western Alps get their precipitation from low pressure systems that track across the UK, pulling warm moist air from the northern Atlantic gulf stream waters onto the cold landmass of France, then up to the Alpine peaks.
Austria can be good but without snow making facilities, it would have a more hit and miss snow record.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Samerberg Sue,
I think the "height is better" concept may be applicable to an individual country especially like France.
I certainly find Whistler in Canada, Are in Sweden and resorts in Norway cold enough but not with lasting snow. Austria seems to have the best snow relative to other Alpine countries and a lot depends on the location. Many skiing resorts in Austria are hidden at the end of a valley within a big mountain range. Some of them are quite narrow, like Ischgl/Galtur, Saalbach/Hinterglemm, Obergurgl, etc and are able to keep the snow for a longer period.
Add to the above many Alpine mega resorts are in big, wide and open valleys with a large population and development generating a lot of heat. They will have to rely on snow making more.
To certain extent I find skiing in Switzerland and Austria is a different experience because people there do it regularly as a past time or at the week ends whereas in the mega French resorts it is more often a 7-day holiday attempted once or twice a year. It is a lot more relax to ski in Austria and Switzerland especially in resorts not massively booked by the Tour Operators.
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You know it makes sense.
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I agree, to me it is more than just about "guaranteed snow". Elevation matters, as does geography. Skiing Austria, in the Schladming area, for us is about the experience. One day in Haus, another in Galsterberg, Retieralm, half a day on Stoderzinken etc etc, all within 15 minutes drive, which tends to be what the locals do. Very different to a week in resort in the Tarentaise, for example, although I like that very much as well, hence our trip to St Foy in 10 days time! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| The variation in mountain areas between one valley and the next make it difficult for even the locals to make accurate forecasts. I witnessed this while staying in the Öztal in early December where we had plenty of snow down in the valley and saw the paucity of cover in Pitztal (next valley along going westwards) or a bit further away in the Zillertal. Similarly the amount in my valley (800m above sea level) compared with the same heights in the Zahmer Kaiser and Wilder Kaiser areas just to the south of me. |
This is mostly due to standing waves, formed from when the wind first gets forced up. They can be detected hundreds of miles down stream and will create micro climates of cloud/clear, precip/dry in the area that they cover. Their form is governed by with speed, temp and air density. They cannot be relied on to replicate a weather condition at a certain location.
| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| The same could be said about all the alpine areas with ski resorts irrespective of country then as they all rely on maintaining their bases with artificial snow. Yes, the mixture of moist air from the Adriatic systems with cold air from the north can give us our best snow, but the role of the NAO is still as applicable to our systems as it is to any others in Europe. |
The North Atlantic Oscillation is a phenomenon that affects the jet stream and, consequently, where high and low pressure systems track across the North Atlantic. This winter, the jet stream is hitting Europe below Gibralter and this is allowing a Scandanavian High to block any low pressure systems that would have approached northern Europe. Its this same high that is feeding northerly winds into the UK and it looks set to remain in place for at least another week. Last year's epic Alpine dumps were caused by the NAO running from its start in the Caribbean, up to Greenland, down to the Azores, up to Iceland and down to Cornwall. On this route the air stream picked up an incredible amount of moisture from warm ocean waters. The result was enormous amounts of moist air getting fired at the western Alps and Pyrenees. The oscillation stayed stable for the last few months of 2008 as well, giving the best season start for decades.
The NAO has less affect on Austria as Austria doesn't seem to get much snow when the wind is from the west. That said, this year's path, straight across the Med, is firing off low pressure systems that are heading north, laden with moist air. The downside is they are also warm and can dump as rain. The further east you go, the less the NAO affects the climate. Its normal path is from the Gulf of Mexico to northern Finland and then down over northern Russia. This year it is very unstable so anything is possible.
| saikee wrote: |
To certain extent I find skiing in Switzerland and Austria is a different experience because people there do it regularly as a past time or at the week ends whereas in the mega French resorts it is more often a 7-day holiday attempted once or twice a year. It is a lot more relax to ski in Austria and Switzerland especially in resorts not massively booked by the Tour Operators. |
All Aus/CH regulars say this and I am certain there is merit in it. I suspect you also get more blue sky days in the western resorts.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The area seems to be hovering at just below 0degC. How is it holding up?
I have the chance to go here (Schald) in a couple of weeks but I would rather save the leave if its man made boilerplate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just a short report after the 2-week trip.
Crossing was Newcastle to Amsterdam. First day 650 miles took 9 hours including stops for fuel and meals. Previous trips took 11 hours but the change from a heavy Mitsubishi Shogun to a lighter and faster 3-litre Subaru managed to cut two hours off.
First day was spent on Flachauwinkl/Zauchensee/Kleinarl which has a mixed terrain spreading over several mountains. The link between Zauchensee and Flachauwinkl is by a “cho cho” train journey of about 5 minutes.
Second day drove to Moaddorf mistaking it for Wagrain. Spent the whole morning figuring out why the runs and chairlifts names were different until realising I was skiing in Flachau!
Third day we drove 22 miles to ski Schladming and Hau Kaibling. Nice competition type resort with wide runs. Didn't do Hochwurzen/Reiteralm. Went to Dachstein Glacier to lunch and found the place foggy. Left the wife in the restaurant and did a few runs in bad weather. Limited facility there and most were drag lifts
Fourth day went to Wagrain and skied to Alpendorf. Found Wagrain a nice cruising resort. We left Wagrain early to spent the afternoon skiing Flizmoos. Flizmoos is really a beginner or early intermediate resort. It is small and full of drag lifts.
Fifth day was spent on the remaining two mountains of Hochwurzen and Reiteralm in Schladming. Found Hochwurzen a very nice early intermediate resort. Schladming seems to have everything to go for as an attractive skiing resort.
We ran out of skiing resort to spend the sixth day as we have checked out Altenmarkt/Radstadt, Forstau, St Johaann and Ramsau before and considered them small (or too many drag lifts). We therefore did a 50 miles journey to Bad Hofgastein which is fully linked with Bad Gastein. There were some new additions since the last time we skied there about 5 years ago. The facility is quite decent now but the snow was still not as good as rest of Ski Amade, possibly due to the place attracting a large number of spa visitors.
Ski Amade did not disappoint us as the area has modern facilities and very accessible. The seventh day was a rest day driving to Pieve di Livinallongo and checking out Cortina di Ampezzo on our way. I must say my first impression of one of the most prestigious Italian skiing resorts was there were a lot of run down animal sheds and farm buildings. Roads were small and twisty and we spend several hours just to locate the access points of the 4 unlinked skiing facilities.
We couldn't wait to spend the eighth day to try out the Tofane area which hosted a competition on that day near the top of Socrepes. The highest cable car to Tofane was close so we could only lunched at the second highest point. We found Contina di Ampezzo a very wide valley so the sunlight was excellent. The area around Pocol and Socrepes is actually an area full of blue runs but it was one of the most enjoyable skiing place to be. My view of Cortina Ampezzo change completely. The Dolomites brochure claims 8 out of 10 days have sunshine in the domain.
The ninth day we did the Hidden Valley and the Cinque Torri. Another perfect skiing day. The wife was tired so I drove her to the bottom of the Medres gondolas station and ski the Misurina area myself.
On the tenth day I read from the literature that a new lift has been installed at Piculin which is 25 miles from our accommodation. So we drove up there, via Alta Badia, and skied the Area No. 2 a place called Kronplatz in Dolomites. This is a sizable resort with an excellent beginner area and was one of the busiest places in Dolomites. Piculin has only one run down the mountain and that was one of the steepest black runs I came across in Italy.
Day eleventh was reserved for Civetta designated as Area No. 12 of Dolomites. This is a large terrain that covers several mountains although it was not obvious from the piste map.
By the twelfth day we were interested in the World War ski tour as we had already skied Civetta, Hidden Valley and Cinque Torri. The circuit was bridged by two bus runs. The wife was pretty tired by then and the weather was overcast most of the day. By the time we finished the Hidden Valley we made a mistake to opt for the horse drag when the time was 3:15pm. The horse owner spent 20 minutes to wait for the two ropes filled with about 60 skiers before collecting the 2 Euro charge. The horse drag only took us to a point where there was still some distance to walk to the connecting chairlift. We eventually gave up to catch the last chairlift and paid 50 Euro for a taxi to return to Arabba where we left our car.
By the thirteenth day we were pretty exhausted when we embarked the Sella Ronda run. We only skied to Canezei and then back to Arabba to call it a day. We then drove around the Sella Ronda circuit in a car to experience the four mountain passes and lunched in the town centre of Ortisei.
The return journey was a bit of a let down. The 550 miles from Dolomites to Bonn took 14 hours as traffic was badly affected by snowing. It was still snowing and the roads were nearly deserted in Germany the next day when we drove from Bonn to Amsterdam.
We had a nice run-around in the Austrian Ski Amade and the Italian Dolomites for two weeks. Dolomites is a bit difficult to get to and a good 4WD car with snow tyres is beneficial. Austrian resorts are a lot easier to get to but Ski Amade is well spaced apart so a car is recommended unless one's interest is kept within a small area.
We drove 2500 miles out of which about 1000 miles were spent driving around between resorts. The total cost for two persons of the trip was GBP 3600.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the report Saikee, but where are the photos, especially from that sunny day in Cortina? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Got some photos uploaded. The wide valley of Contina d'Ampezzo is depicted below as viewed from the second highest cable car station of Tofane (the highest cable car was closed).
There was a competition going on at the bottom of photo which shows some extent of the piste to Socrepes.
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FAQ
not sure why I was linked to 
