 Poster: A snowHead
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OK - we have narrowed our holiday 2010 choice down to 2 options - tignes or Plan-Peisey . both are with esprit. We have been to paradiski a few times and know it well - this has pros and cons in that we can probably ski without a piste map but at least we have a fair assessment of what is available on the skiing front. We really fancy going to tignes as only skied there briefly a long time ago and cant remember much about it. There will be lots of new challenges for us. what we are concerned about though is the lack of tree lined runs in case of bad weather, especially for our 6 yr old.
Can anyone offer any first hand experience/views on this subject please. also any experience of ski schools in tignes and details of easy slopes for 6yr old (who will be skiing for his 4th holiday so needs greens and nice blues). i have a piste map and have read WTSS book but there is no substitute for first hand experience. if it snows will it be a nightmare on the bleak, high sloped of tignes ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tignes Le Lac and Tignes Val Claret are at about 2100 metres above sea level. The tree line in that area ends at about 2000 metres above sea level. The only runs in Tignes with trees are the ones goin down to Tignes Les Boisses at the top of the Dam and those going below the Dam to Brevieres.
If you take the Tufs Chairlift from Tignes Val Claret or the Aeroski Gondola from Tignes Le Lac you get to the top of Toviere. This is the link into Val D'Isere and you can ski down a blue run called Creux to the bottom of the Tommeuse Chair lift and then down thro the trees to the La Daille part of Val D'Isere.
If there is poor visibility, wind and it's snowing, then yes Tignes is a bleak place. If you go llater in the season it's not so bad in bad conditions but in December and January it can be very cold. However even in December and January it can be quite warm when the sun shines.
Plan Peisey is very low altitude Tignes is one of the highest ski resorts in Europe.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've only been once, last December. Snow was terrific so early in the season. However we more or less lost the last day with too much snow and wind. They just about managed to open a couple of lifts in the afternoon to prevent having to pay refunds. I'm still going back at the same time this year though.
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backhojo, It can be a bloody nightmare when the weather closes in. I've not slid any further down the Valley than Le Lac and I cant think of any easy blues that aren't either crowded or exposed . . . though it's a lot of fun to bomb around on Roslin and take the train back down. I think if I were looking for blues and easy reds I'd probably stick with Peisey/Valandry/the Arcs. The terrain is better for the level you're looking for and you're not going to be faced with steep, often busy purpley blues to get back down to resort level.
I like Tignes but I didn't enjoy it while I was learning to board and more than once turned round at the top of he funicular and went back to bed  But if the nipper's a strong skier then go for it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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From memory there are better tree lined runs over in Val D'Isere, is that a possibility for you??
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backhojo, frankly, given your requirements, I wouldn't go to Tignes unless you want to go very early, or very late, when the altitude would be a big advantage. Why have you ruled out everywhere other than Tignes or Plan Peisey? When is your holiday?
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perhaps i didnt explain fully our needs -
we (OH and I ) are pretty good skiers. happy on any run. not so hot on off piste but give me any black and I will have a good go at it - the only thing that lets us down is stamina. However I am not keen on poor visibility skiing as it makes me feel sick (almost like sea sickness). The easy blues etc are so that our son can ski with us when he is not in ski school. We went to St Anton 2 years ago and we had difficulty finding him some nice easy blues to progress onto. we had some more success last year in alpe d'huez. We have been to paradiski many times and feel like we want to try something different but not at the expensive of potentially ruining the holiday if the weather is bad. we had a really bad day in alpe d'huez last year when winds closed most links out of the resort - i guess tignes is similar in that its very high and bleak in bad weather.
welshflyer - i disagree that plan peisey is "very low" as it is 1600m. I woudl say Morzine is "very low at only 1000m
kitenski - val is possible if we can find the right holiday
pam w - we are planning to go late Jan/early feb. we also could go in March which might be a safer bet in Tignes. We normally have one family week and one long weekend just the two of us. Jan has traditionally been the family week and march the non-kiddie weekend but no reason why we cant swap these round I guess. With regards to why we have ruled out other areas is all about getting all the factors right and tour op availability. All the following are factors we need to take into consideration :
- large ski area to satisfy grown ups who like to wander and explore rather than repeating same pistes over and over
- ski lessons for 6 yr old followed by afternoon childcare
- nursery for 3 yr old
- catered basis as not prepared to self cater
- long ski days for grown ups without interuptions safe in the knowledge that kids are well looked after and happy
- good feedback on accomodation from previous visitors
- sensible price (we know all the above comes at price but holidays of 3.5k for just travel and accom do not interest us when we can get something for about 1.5 - 2k)
this usually boils down to using Esprit, Crystal or Mark Warner as they offer the complete package. We are happy to look at other companies but after 2 days extensive research I cant find anything that offers the above. Plus we have been throught the same hoops last year and the year before !! saying that ,I know you lot on here often come up with alternative ideas and we are open minded as long as we get a holiday without too much hassle (ie we are not coming back at lunchtime to pick up eldest from ski school and ferry him somewhere - we prefer to pay for someone to do this)
thus if we end up choosing Esprit , for example, then we are limited ot the resorts that they operate in and the ones they have reasonble priced holiday at the moment. this is les arc 2000, peisey, les gets and tignes. les arc 2000 is fine but prefer peisey as its more central to teh paradiski area, les gets is too low and i feel we woudl be taking a gamble with the snow conditions so that leaves tignes and peisey. My head says peisey and my heart says tignes !!
hope this elaborates a little on our preferences
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backhojo, difficult, isn't it? A gamble - if you get bluebird days, Tignes would be great. If it's poor vis, cold/windy/snowing you'd be wishing you were in Les Get or somewhere lower, with tree lined skiing. It can be pretty warm, or pretty cold, any time of the season - the last few years March has been snowier than January.
I don't know Paradiski at all, so can't help with the comparison! If you are able to go out of peak season, why not leave a decision a bit later?
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pam - leaving the decision to later is always a gamble with the childcare. we need to have availabilty in the chalet - ideally a family room + nursery for little one + snow club for eldest + lessons + flights....all tricky to get last minute. we are also fairly specific in which resorts we will go to. not happy to take anything just to get away..we only do it once a year and it costs a fortune so we need to get as many elements right as we can !!
from experience jan can be cold and clear - not sure if this is ideal at 2100m in tignes if you are 6 and standing round in a ski class !!
i am leaning towards paradiski as it has skiing up to 3400 on the glacier plus tree lined runs down to 1200m. importantly if you stay in peisey the tree lined runs are on your doorstep. maybe we have to accept the familiarity of a resort we have visited before is the price we have to pay for the "insurance" of a variety of terrain to suit all conditions ? we could try tignes for our kid-free hol in march.....if i can find anywhere that will take us for a short break.
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I've been to Tignes on a number of occasions in January, a couple with Espirt, and whilst I have to agree that it can be grim in bad weather and that can cause lift closures some of my best ever days skiing have coming from persevering with the weather and being in the right place at the right time. I like Tignes and put up with it's weather vagaries, I suppose Tignes is my Paradiski!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| backhojo wrote: |
perhaps i didnt explain fully our needs -
- large ski area to satisfy grown ups who like to wander and explore rather than repeating same pistes over and over
- ski lessons for 6 yr old followed by afternoon childcare
- nursery for 3 yr old
- catered basis as not prepared to self cater
- long ski days for grown ups without interuptions safe in the knowledge that kids are well looked after and happy
- good feedback on accomodation from previous visitors
- sensible price (we know all the above comes at price but holidays of 3.5k for just travel and accom do not interest us when we can get something for about 1.5 - 2k)
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Sounds like La Tania would meet all your needs ,I have used this company many times with my family and other friends have taken their families:
http://www.familyfriendlyskiing.com/ they have some cracking deals for January ie:
£670/£650 adults
£570/£550 children
£100 infants
¤ FREE SKI PASS
(Courchevel Valley 6 Day Pass)
¤ FREE CRÈCHE
(must be reserved in advance)
¤ FREE SKI HIRE
(not snowboard hire)
¤ FREE TRANSFERS
week commencing
3rd, 10th, 17th & 24th Jan
Funnily enough after being there 6 times I am looking at somewhere else myself, care to share where you have stayed in Peisey previously at those prices? We tend to go over Easter....
FWIW Les Gets has a good snow record despite it's apparent low height.
cheers,
Greg
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| backhojo wrote: |
| i am leaning towards paradiski as it has skiing up to 3400 on the glacier plus tree lined runs down to 1200m. importantly if you stay in peisey the tree lined runs are on your doorstep. maybe we have to accept the familiarity of a resort we have visited before is the price we have to pay for the "insurance" of a variety of terrain to suit all conditions ? we could try tignes for our kid-free hol in march.....if i can find anywhere that will take us for a short break. |
For the short break then try both mountainsun or a diy option staying in the alpaka lodge.
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Or go to Selva with Esprit. Had a ball there evey time I've been there.
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You know it makes sense.
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ghost dog - we went to the dolomites a few years ago. it was OK, and nice scenery but a bit "tame" on the skiing front
bertie bassett - thanks for tips. have looked into mountainsun as it was mentioned elsewhere but will look into alpaka
kitenski - have been to la tania a few times and its a option. infact i emailed tony at familyfriendly for a quote a couple of hours ago !! only issue is they dont include travel and independent travel is getting harder to source at sensible prices. Peisey - we have stayed with www.skibeat.co.uk . prices we are getting with esprit for 2adults and 2 kids for jan are around the 2k mark. Easter is a different ball game as prices rocket !!
thanks
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Tree runs, easier pistes for the nipper, reasonable prices - you should be looking at Austria not mega french resorts
Forget Tignes and if you want some where new Saalbach/Hinterglemm or Ski Amade region is the way to go ! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rayscoops wrote: |
Tree runs, easier pistes for the nipper, reasonable prices - you should be looking at Austria not mega french resorts
Forget Tignes and if you want some where new Saalbach/Hinterglemm or Ski Amade region is the way to go ! |
Ray do you/have you gone with a TO or DIY with family to Austria??
Cheers,
Greg
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kitenski - yes but tagged on with a few singles to a group of three families with two young children each
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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backhojo,
Tignes, like all resorts, can be pretty bleak in bad weather. We do however have lots of covered lifts, Bubbles & 2 underground trains in the espace killy which give good protection when the weather is bad.
My favourite 'circuit' for when the weather is bad is; Aeroski from Le Lac, ski to La Daille(partly in the trees), train to top of Bellvarde, ski to Tommusses lift back to Toviere and ski into Val Claret. This might not sound a lot but coupled with another couple of covered lifts you pass easily makes a mornings skiing.
I use the above circuit with both adult & kids groups and the route can be as easy or difficult as you like ( green/blues - blacks)
The other route from Tignes Le lac is the Chaudannes lift and ski to Le Breviere which includes some nice tree lined skiing. The return is via sache bubble & Aguille Rouge.
Why worry about bad weather anyway we only have sunshine in the day 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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My only experience of Tignes was a week which started with an 11 hr bus transfer from the airport due to roads blocked by snow. When we finally got there the whole resort was closed due to, yes you guessed it, too much snow. There were only a couple of nursery slope lifts open for most of the week, they were heaving with lots of miserable skiers who had come to ski this huge area and were pee'd off at only having the same old nursery slopes to ski day after day. The pisties didn't seem to take the same pride in keeping the place open as other resorts I have been to - when asked if they were planning to open anywhere up they just shrugged and walked off. When I wasn't in the chalet listening to the radio for news of pistes opening I did something I thought I would never do - I hired a snowboard. I quite liked it, but took it back because the pistes that were open were just too crowded to learn on.
On the couple of days we did get up the mountain I found it cold and miserable, with all the pistes very stark and bare as there were no trees at all. We got over to Val d'Isere which was a bit nicer, and then hired the world's most miserable ski guide to show us some decent skiing. My god the man was miserable. We were struggling to keep up with him in near white-out conditions - he knew the terrain and we didn't. We were slowing him down and he didn't like that. Miserable g!t.
I know it is supposed to be lovely there, but I found the place grim and expensive, and won't be going back (unless someone is offering free skiing, in which case I'm prepared to given any place another go.  ) So there we go!
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backhojo, pandora's got a bit an expected downer on the place and he's right that when Tignes is bad it's bloody awful . . . but it's the reverse in the sunshine. It has some good terrain to pucker up on and when you get to the outskirts it can be nice and quiet. Worth a punt if you've never been before.
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Kitenski - my original yes was in refrence to the 'with family' question, and it was a DIY to a specific 'child biased hotel' which even had its own choo choo train train thing to take the kids to the lift station children's meeting place
Actually the hotel was not cheap and is probably booked now but I will try to post its details later
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tignes is not my favourite resort for exactly some of Pandora's. reasons - particularly the starkness, bleakness, lack of trees. But that's because of the altitude - and the altitude is also what means it can be the best place around when it's a bit warm and snow lower down is scarce. Anybody faced with having the resort closed because of too much snow can legitimately feel fed up - however, to go to Tignes and then complain about the lack of trees is a bit daft, really. The weather's unpredictable but the lack of trees isn't!
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Edit Looks like I submitted this twice.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 7-09-09 10:46; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, agreed -I love the bleak almost moon scape nature of resorts above the tree line.
backhojo, kitenski, Neilson go here http://www.neilson.co.uk/Snow-Austria-Saalbach-Hinterglemm-Hotel-Feriengut-Ellmauhof-Hinterglemm-Accommodation-Information.aspx but it is an easy DIY option too. It was so good the people I was on holiday with (all had 6 year old(ish) or younger nippers) booked up for next year before they checked out !!
FACILITIES:
Lounge with wifi access
Restaurant
Bar
Free use of new 1000m2 Vital World Ellmau spa area with indoor pool (100m2), waterfall, white water ride and adjacent lounge area
Free use of new relaxation gallery (150m2) offering panoramic views
Free use of wellness centre with two saunas, steam room, panoramic relaxation rooms and waterbeds
Spa bath and massage chairs
New gym and fitness area
Massage and beauty treatments
Sun terrace
Reception
Laundry service
FAMILIES & CHILDREN:
Free hotel-run childcare for children aged from 2 years available 0900-2100 (Sun-Fri) including lunch and juices all day
Childcare for children aged 1-2yrs available 0900-2100 (Sun-Fri) - approx. €20 per day including lunch
Babysitting for children under 1yrs
Free use of children’s pool (26m2)
New giant tunnel slide
Free mini-train to ski school
Free hotel-run entertainment
Free onsite farm
Free pony rides (3yrs+)
Free use of Playstation
Several themed playrooms including new 'Gypsyland'
Free toboggans
Snow shoeing
Free use of indoor hall for volleyball, basketball, table tennis and aerobics
Buggies, baby monitors, baby baths available 24hrs/day
Children’s menu
Milk/food heating area
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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backhojo, I have skied Tignes quite a few times and it can be pretty bleak in bad weather, undoubtedly a lot more so than places with trees. It is a risk that you take with it and will always have to take unless you are able to book within the reasonably reliable range of the weather forecast which is basically booking almost the day you go and even then the end of the week is uncertain.
I am no longer mad keen on the big French purpose built resorts as I find them aesthetically unattractive, expensive, often crowded and particularly in Val d'I the (very good) off piste gets skied out very quickly. Having said that Tignes is undoubtedly one of Europes best known skiing areas partly because the skiing is very good, the snow reliable and it serves particularly well what you seem to want.
Personally given your wishes I would go for it. What I might consider in your position is having a look at the weather forecast when you start and if it does look bad then think about what you can do as an alternative. There is a little tree lined skiing in Val though it is usually busy in bad weather and the connection is exposed though better than it was.
If you are going low season it might be a time to think of getting last minute private instruction and concentrating hard on technical improvemetn which can be done even in poor weather.
Good luck anyway
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| T Bar wrote: |
| [ particularly in Val d'I the (very good) off piste gets skied out very quickly. |
Guess it all depends who you ski with! A decent guide will find you fresh tracks in Val for some time after a storm.
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You know it makes sense.
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kitenski,
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Guess it all depends who you ski with! A decent guide will find you fresh tracks in Val for some time after a storm.
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Maybe, A Val d'I based guide compained about this to me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| T Bar wrote: |
kitenski,
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Guess it all depends who you ski with! A decent guide will find you fresh tracks in Val for some time after a storm.
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Maybe, A Val d'I based guide compained about this to me. |
Interesting!! Read this blog for what they manage to find
http://www.alpineexperience.com/news.html
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Poster: A snowHead
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| T Bar wrote: |
kitenski,
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Guess it all depends who you ski with! A decent guide will find you fresh tracks in Val for some time after a storm.
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Maybe, A Val d'I based guide compained about this to me. |
What did the guide complain about, T Bar? Was it that guides lack of knowledge of Val d'Isere? I support kitenski in this, a good guide can find good snow. I have skied with Alpine Experience and we have skied untracked soft snow two weeks after a snowfall. It was not thigh deep powder, but it was very pleasant snow.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kitenski, Adrian,
A nice read, it was not the guides lack of knowledge about Val d'Isere he was stating that it was getting increasingly difficult to find untracked snow particularly safely.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thanks for all your advice. we have decided that Tignes is not for us this year with the family. We feel there are too many risks with the weather. We accept it will be really good if the weather is clear but if not then it coudl ruin our holiday. We had a few factors that impacted on our holiday last year - illness of child and weather closing resort for a day so we want a "safer" bet this year. we might give tignes a go for our non-kiddie get away later in the season...especially as it means we can go later due to the higher altitude of tignes.
we are likely to go to paradiski or 3V (we know then well - which means we dont get to explore new areas but also means we know what to expect !!). Peisey or La Tania are looking favourites at the moment
once again thanks for all your opinions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks, T Bar, for the clarification. The Alpine Experience guides have commented on it getting difficult to find good snow several days after a snowfall and hence the need to go further afield including longer walks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We did Tignes with Esprit in late January 2004 and the weather was so bad that we actually had a partial refund on our lift pass. In the course of the week:
- the lifts didn't open until the afternoon most days
- the pass to Val d'Isere was only open for about two hours in the whole week
- the run down to Tignes les Breviers from Tigne le Lac only opened for one afternoon
- only one black run opened in the entire resort, and then only for two days
- many high runs were shut for the whole holiday
- the queues for the few open lifts were astonishingly long, and most pistes resembled Kings Cross in the rush hour
- kids ski-school was a disaster, as, even when the lifts were open, it was sometimes necessary to use button lifts to avoid the wind. Most kids fell off every time and were sent back to the school's offices to wait for the lesson to finish
- I had to drag the kids down some runs, as they didn't have enough weight to overcome the force of the wind
- Two snowboarders were swept into the lake by an avalanche in full sight of the town. They were less than 100m off piste
- The road to the resort was cut off for much of the week, so it was impossible to escape
We were very unlucky, but when things go wrong in Tignes, they can go very badly wrong indeed. Having said that, if the weather's good it's probably fabulous. We've never been back to find out.
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Jonny Jones, thats really unfortunate. Was it just winds or was it blizzard conditions aswell? Could you not have taken the bus to Val d'Isere? or were the conditions just as bad there.
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Christopher, trouble is with that sort of weather, that if anything opens, or is available, it is immediately swamped. I remember a day in the 3V, one new year, many years ago, when all the lifts out of Mottaret were closed till 3 pm. At 3pm everyone rushed out and queued for ever just to get up one lift and ski en masse down again. It's actually quite a way by road from Tignes to Val D'Isere, especially in very heavy weather. That does indeed sound like a horrendous week's skiing for Johnny Jones, and very bad luck - but at the same time, many lower and less exposed resorts were enjoying stupendous conditions. Equally Tignes can have some great snow when laces are swamped in slush. Luck of the draw. Always take a couple of good books on a ski (or any other kind of) holiday.
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Oooh Jan 2004! That's when we were in La Plagne and even there was closed down with all the snow, with just one or two lifts open.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Christopher wrote: |
| Jonny Jones, thats really unfortunate. Was it just winds or was it blizzard conditions aswell? Could you not have taken the bus to Val d'Isere? or were the conditions just as bad there. |
Snow and avalanche risk were the big issue for most of the week, not winds. It only stopped snowing for about two hours in the whole week, and one of the resort staff told me that they'd used more than a season's worth of explosives in the couse of the week.
Conditions were definitely freakishly bad when we were there, but it can happen to anyone. I'm not moaning about it - I knew the risk of bad weather when I chose to go to Tignes and I happily took my chances; realism tells me that every now and again a ski holiday will be ruined by the weather, and you just have to take the rough with the smooth. But the risk is undoubtedly higher in Tignes than in some other resorts.
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With a kid I'd go peisey - been to valD/tignes 3 times in the last two seasons and when it's bad it really is a bit grim in Tignes. La Daille is fine, as is Boisses but getting there can be interesting - windy and poor vis if snowing hard. At times last march I was going backwards due to wind coming off the lifts on the way over to the boisses runs and I weigh the best part of 15 stone!
That said when it's sunny (which is was for most of 2 of 3 trips) it is lovely - and pretty easy skiing too so good for your son.
Serre Chevalier & Montgenevre are the other two that come to mind, but I don't have kids so not sure of family friendly qualifications Or meribel actually, I avoid it now as busy/slushy but lots of chalet, plenty of runs and good ski schools?
aj xx
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