 Poster: A snowHead
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Mounting my own bindings, terrified to do it.
Anyone have any decent hints or tips for mounting their own bindings without a pillar drill?
concerned about damaging the ski, lining them up wrong or not drilling in straight.... links to old threads would also be fine
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There will be lots who say don't DIY at all. Certainly don't do it without a pillar drill - you should be able to get one for about £40.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beequin, why would you need a pillar drill???
dulcamara, for the sake of £25 it is a lot quicker and easier to get a shop with the proper drill bits and jigs to do it, if you want anything other than the binding mounted on the ski centre line then best to tell them
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CEM, To set up the stops if you don't have the 'proper' drill bits and to line everything up straight.
But, can I agree now with the 'don't DIY' view before the debate goes any further.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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dulcamara, I recently mounted up a new set of bindings on an old(ish) pair of ski's. I downloaded a paper template from the web and spent a long time measuring up. I borrowed a ski drill bit and used an electric DIY drill. It all worked fine 
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=53539#1285810
To be fair, the time I spent was more then £25 quids worth but I'd be fairly happy to do it again and second time around it would probably be faster - and I have a decent metal rule now.
Shops are OK, but the bindings on my most recent pair of shop bought ski's were mounted slightly off centre by the ski-tech. Annoying !
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 3-09-09 14:43; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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dulcamara, measure (twice), line up your jig (paper is fine), drill (use the correct drill bit - not cheap), wood glue, hand tighten. = Not hard. If you're still scared get someone to do it for you. If you still want more guidance search on TGR, if you want to get your ass whooped, post on there asking HOW... Good luck. The first few pairs are the worse...
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Is it possible to line up your holes using the intended bindings?
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dulcamara, probably not a good plan.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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dulcamara, depends on the binding; usually for 2-piece alpine bindings the answer is no, because there is no good way to consistently account for the boot length and the required compression of the heel spring by looking at the binding itself.
Results for beginners that don't take *extreme* patience and pains: mismatched mounts, mismatched forward pressure settings, off-center bindings, bindings that are set too far apart to even retain the intended boot.
Most of the -alpine- bindings that are self-jigging tend to be demo bindings, rental bindings or on a rail system, i.e. adjustable for a wide range of boots *after* being mounted.
Results for beginners that don't take patience and pains: slightly off-center, high friction of binding on the rail, mismatched mounts between the two skis, rails or demo plates not solidly clamped to the ski.
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dulcamara, what's the binding?
edit: and your BSL?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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parlor, you making jigs now?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, sure. What do you need?  No, but I have some Solly, Dynafit & Naxo paper jigs here, others are easy to find too.
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dulcamara
although the general consensus seems to be "get it done by a pro", I've had no problems fitting bindings, with & without a drill-stand (including fritschi freeride touring binders, where the heel lock-down position is critical)
tips are
1) if you don't want to shell out for a dedicated pillar-drill, get a drillstand for a standard DIY drill.
2) punch the hole positions with a centre punch (masonary nail makes a good punch) so the bit doesn't wander
3) grind the (blunt  ) end off your drill bit so that you only have the exact length protruding from the chuck, so you don't overdrill
4) make sure you don't drill too shallow, else you'll have "bumps" appearing in your base as the screw will start to push the undrilled material
5) wack a load of 5min epoxy in the hole before screwing, as this'll bind the screw in (but the 5min isn't too tough to prevent removal)
wisdom says you should pre-tap the holes before screwing, but I never have
The first time I did the fritschis I got a paper template off the web, than made a metal template from some 20g mild steel sheet and did a test run on a piece of scrap wood to make sure it would work. I just use the paper template now
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You know it makes sense.
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dulcamara, it's not difficult if you're careful. I've seen enough botched shop jobs using a jig so if you're competent with hand tools & measuring etc then why not. If you call me I'll talk you through it & you'll quickly judge if you want to go there.
You can of course have a try mounting them yourself first & if you're not happy then get a competant tech to do it. By 'trying' I mean first mounting the bindings on a piece of wood or on gash skis, not on to your new skis. This has the benefit of of allowing you to crack the spacing between the toe & heel pieces allowing for the heel piece compression & allows you to check the forward pressure adjustment & the fore/aft position of the bindings relevant to the ski's mounting line etc. You can mount the bindings on wood as many times as you like & when you're spot on you can transfer the dims to the ski. And if you can't get it right then it's up to my place with your £25
There's plenty of paper templates available (there's a dedicated thread on TGR) but some are better than others so I'd still recommend testing on wood or old skis first.
Whether you transpose the measurements from the wood or use a paper jig there's a couple of important things to check, namely ensuring that the centre line you've marked down the ski is centred between the ski's edges & not the top sheet (sidewalls often vary) & that the mounting line is in the same place on both skis (it's usually printed on the top sheet & often the top sheet shifts when the ski's pressed), but there's very easy ways of checking these which I can also talk you through as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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geoffers, glue is not used to bond the screws in, it's used for two other reasons, to lube the self-tapping screws & then to seal the hole from water ingress. For that reason the best glue to use is a flexible waterproof wood glue (ie Evositck waterproof wood glue, the one in the blue bottle).
Skis without a metal top sheet should be drilled with a 3.6mm dia bit & should the holes should not be tapped & this would lessen the 'grip' of the core on the screw.
Skis with a metal top sheet should be drilled with a 4.1mm dia bit & the holes should ideally be tapped with a 12AB tap. Note, for the reason above, you should only tap just through the metal top sheet (usually just a couple of mm) & leave the remaining depth of the hole untapped. Tapping is not strictly necessary but you must ensure that the screws don't wander off vertical when driven as this will pull the binding out of line.
Pucka binding drill bits have a countersinking shoulder on them so if you use a std bit the holes should be countersunk a tad otherwise the action of driving the screws can raise a shoulder around the top of the hole meaning that the binding's base plate doesn't sit snug & flat on the ski but insteads sits slightly off the ski which will apply too much loading on the screws in use. If the drilling of the holes raises a shoulder on the top sheet then it should be dressed off with a chisel before countersinking.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sounds like some great advice here. Hate to complicate things but what about if drilling into a metal plate?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| dulcamara wrote: |
| ........Hate to complicate things but what about if drilling into a metal plate? |
If you're mounting onto a metal plate (ie a race plate) then it's a 4.1mm bit & a then tap the full depth of the metal. Race plates are often a 4/5mm thick aluminium plate with a delrin/plastic spacer underneath. Just tap the metal thickness only & then let the screw self tap the spacer.
You're gonna need to lube the tap with a tad of oil when tapping that thickness of metal (which you don't need to do if you're just tapping a 1mm metal top sheet) so you must degrease the hole before inserting the screws. On a metal/delrin plate I still put a tad of wood glue on the end of the screw just to lube the screw whilst it's self-tapping the delrin material.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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geoffers, listen to spyderjon. I get the idea that you may 'score' as opposed to 'tap' the drilling point.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spyderjon - any tips and tricks for marking a centre line that you'd be willing to share? I find it's by far the hardest thing to get right...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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dulcamara, It would probably help if you were more specific about what skis, bindings and plates you want to use.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| spyderjon - any tips and tricks for marking a centre line that you'd be willing to share? I find it's by far the hardest thing to get right... |
Look you don't have to be that accurate, most ski shop mounted bindings are off by a mm here and there. Get a vernier or somesuch horizontal on your ski, measure across and mark the center point with a something like a fine CD felt tip. Repeat lower down ski and draw center line.
As for the rest, you can use the bindings to draw a template although I just put the bindings on the ski to mark the holes for the last pair I mounted. Normal precision self centering drill bits are ok (they come in .1mm sizings). Don't drill too deep, just through the top sheet to leave the self tapper some material to bite on. For glue, I use Pattex.
Make sure the hole is recessed otherwise the binding will sit proud of the ski.
Job done.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| spyderjon - any tips and tricks for marking a centre line that you'd be willing to share? I find it's by far the hardest thing to get right... |
One method is to place the skis together, base to base, with some pressure on them to get rid of the camber. Mark the points where the skis touch and then measure that distance. That's your running length.
Divide running length by two, measure that distance from either of the marked points and you're done.
In truth, most manufacturers "centre line" points are a bit of guesswork on thier part.
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Does the Snowheads forum have stickys for DIY fixes like this?
Brake bending/binding drilling/how to restore edges/how to maintain skis/ etc?
Lots of good info here, too good to sink imo.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| spyderjon - any tips and tricks for marking a centre line that you'd be willing to share? I find it's by far the hardest thing to get right... |
In truth, most manufacturers "centre line" points are a bit of guesswork on thier part. |
LOL  if only it was as easy as guessing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fr0sty,
Click the link at the bottom of spyderjon's, posts. If you havent already you'll be pleasantly surprised
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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kiwi1, Glad to see Whitedot put a bit more effort into these things
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You know it makes sense.
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Don't forget the beer.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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parlor, Yup it's all about drinking loads of beer then playing "pin the mounting point on the ski"
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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RPF, I had taken a look when he first linked it to his sig, but I didn't realise until recently that there was so much there.
Cheers!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FAQ
we're talking here as to how to measure/draw a centre line down the top sheet not how to find the centre of the running surface 
Get with the programme man 
I thought he wanted around, not down 
