 Poster: A snowHead
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| dbx wrote: |
a basic chalet girl job should be:
- ~50-60 quid a week with the additional potential of a bonus at the end of the season (100-200)
- bond is normal, but lift pass and decent insurance should be paid by the company not out of pocket by staff
- transport to and from france should be included
- accommodation of course should be included
- most tour operators include similiar/same breakfast and evening meals as guests
- some form of access to the kitchen for sandwiches during the day
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completely agree with this package. we've got our own independent chalet company and provide essentially the above, plus carte neige but considerably more cash in hand. We don't ask for a bond either.
Having said that, chalet work somewhere like ours is very different from working for the big TO where I did my first seasons. I can't remember exactly what I earned (it was a while ago now!) but seem to recall it boiling down to about £2.50 per hour after all the deductions, so i don't think the offer of £1,100 less deductions is surprising.
It is worth us paying our staff a little more as the personnel in a chalet will make or break your holiday, but in a larger hotel environment it's not quite so intimate and they have such a large turn over of staff they may have no reason to offer a better deal.
Either way, none of us do it for the money and bearing in mind her food and accommodation are covered, so long as your daughter doesn't forget what she's there for, i.e. the snow, she'll love it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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dbx, she has been offered GA, not chalet host. It's a different position, and entirely free of any responsibility whatsoever - she will be required to serve food, clean things and do as she's told by the hotel manager. And I don't see how you can state so categorically that pass, insurance, accommodation etc 'should' be provided - is there some sort of law about it all of a sudden?
For your information, Skiplan state that they will reimburse the cost of your lift pass on presentation of the receipt at the end of the season, assuming you complete your contract. I can't see where they can 'easily' find a reason not to do so, and in three seasons of working for them I never had a member of staff refused reimbursement. They don't pay for ski insurance for hotel staff, and they aren't the only ones. Staff can upgrade to ski cover for about £70 for the season.
Furthermore, plenty of TOs provide insurance which covers off-piste rescue (eg TUI), so it would be wise to look at the policy before forking out on Carte Neige, which incidentally costs about 50€ and not 30€.
Skiplan have their faults, like most of the TOs out there, but on the whole and in the context of ski resort jobs they are a perfectly decent company to work for.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the opinions, I would agree that this is different to a chalet job. LIZZARD you have put my mind at ease ref the company. I was impressed with the management when I was a guest last year and the feedback from the staff was good. Will check the insurance they offer. The cost is £80
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
dbx, she has been offered GA, not chalet host. It's a different position, and entirely free of any responsibility whatsoever - she will be required to serve food, clean things and do as she's told by the hotel manager. And I don't see how you can state so categorically that pass, insurance, accommodation etc 'should' be provided - is there some sort of law about it all of a sudden?
For your information, Skiplan state that they will reimburse the cost of your lift pass on presentation of the receipt at the end of the season, assuming you complete your contract. I can't see where they can 'easily' find a reason not to do so, and in three seasons of working for them I never had a member of staff refused reimbursement. They don't pay for ski insurance for hotel staff, and they aren't the only ones. Staff can upgrade to ski cover for about £70 for the season.
Furthermore, plenty of TOs provide insurance which covers off-piste rescue (eg TUI), so it would be wise to look at the policy before forking out on Carte Neige, which incidentally costs about 50€ and not 30€.
Skiplan have their faults, like most of the TOs out there, but on the whole and in the context of ski resort jobs they are a perfectly decent company to work for. |
where did i say anything about a law? dude wanted feedback on the job offered to his daughter, so dude got feedback. seems straightforward. i'm describing what is offered by most of the acknowledged decent employers.
"serve food, clean things, and do as told by hotel manager" is exactly the role i am talking about, for companies running anything from 80 bed hotels to a 4 bed chalets (and including fijit's nice little operation)
nice to hear you are happy working with skiplan, but reimbursing big purchases at the end of the season is still scammy. there are plenty of good companies that don't do it, so it's worthwhile information for people looking for jobs. the more people like you repeat that it's fine to do that, the more staff will get screwed.
bonds and bonuses get held back every season by dozens of companies for dinged vans, damaged hotel equipment, etc. let's say kevducky's daughter gets told to use a van to grab some groceries one night. a week later, someone else slides it into something and damage goes unreported. end of the season, the company operations guys get a 4 grand bill for van repair. no one admits damaging it. what do you think ops is likely to do when the manager lists the people who drove the van that season? the less any company can hold back, the better.
as for the insurance; good for TUI, but frankly, even for 50 euros the carre neige is well worth it for avoiding the hassle of getting some random insurance company to reimburse you hundreds of euros after you've paid it. carre neige = no payment by you and no questions asked by ski patrol. with a helo evacuation running at about 80 euros a minute, that ain't bad.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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dbx, you blatantly have no idea what the GA position entails, and if you think anyone would put a hotel manager in a chalet for eight, you are clearly mad. The company's vans are only driven by people authorised and insured in advance (and not the GAs) and 'groceries' are ordered from suppliers who deliver to the premises, not picked up from resort supermarkets. We are talking hotels here, not chalets.
I said earlier on that other companies pay better, and that it's not usual to fork out for a lift pass up front. However, I still say that stinginess notwithstanding, Skiplan are one of the better employers out there. Your accusing them of trying to 'scam' their staff when you are evidently completely unfamiliar with their operation is a tad unreasonable.
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Actually must admit have only heard good vibes about the Ski Plan package for GAs and if you look at their ad on www.Ski-Jobs.co.uk they couldn't make the deal much clearer - no hiding behind scams here:
"Season lift pass (pre-paid for certain positions otherwise fully refunded on completion of contract)"
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Lizzard, hardly a scam if they are upfront about it. As a former employee, I am sure you are best placed to comment on how they treat their staff.
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I feel another witch hunt building here!
dbx simply gave his opinion:
| dbx wrote: |
sounds scammy as hell. there are better out there.
a basic chalet girl job should be:
- ~50-60 quid a week with the additional potential of a bonus at the end of the season (100-200)
- bond is normal, but lift pass and decent insurance should be paid by the company not out of pocket by staff
- transport to and from france should be included
- accommodation of course should be included
- most tour operators include similiar/same breakfast and evening meals as guests
- some form of access to the kitchen for sandwiches during the day
with the setup you describe, the company can all too easily find a reason to not reimburse her lift pass and insurance at the end of the season.
as a note, make sure she buys an additional 30 euro carte neige insurance for evacuation off the mountain as even good british TO insurance doesn't include coverage for off-piste. |
everyones said there are better deals out there, his only error was comparing a chalet girl job to a general assitant job (and maybe using the opening words of "sounds scammy as hell")
He never said SkiPlan is a sh*t company to work for but I do disagree with his carte neige comment also.
I have also heard plenty of companies (not sure if SkiPlan was one) withholding bonds and ski pass refunds (which could be £200-£500) so it's good dbx raised this issue.
I would not be happy paying for my own ski pass and insurance aswell as getting a poor wage, in my opinion it should come part and package of the deal!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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manicpb, companies do indeed withold bonds (or parts thereof) from time to time, and I've known every TO I've worked for do so, some justifiably and some flagrantly not. Most commonly it's for trashing your staff accommodation (and I've seen the cost of repairs/refurb come to more than the value of the bonds in question on several occasions); dropping out at the last minute after signing your contract; and leaving before you complete your season. One of the reasons Skiplan give for not providing passes to hotel staff is that if they leave half way through the season, the comapny then has to buy another pass for the new member of staff, as lots of lift companies either won't transfer passes or will only do so for a set number each season. (This is true, but nonetheless a poor excuse, in my opinion.)
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| Lizzard wrote: |
dbx, you blatantly have no idea what the GA position entails, and if you think anyone would put a hotel manager in a chalet for eight, you are clearly mad. The company's vans are only driven by people authorised and insured in advance (and not the GAs) and 'groceries' are ordered from suppliers who deliver to the premises, not picked up from resort supermarkets. We are talking hotels here, not chalets.
I said earlier on that other companies pay better, and that it's not usual to fork out for a lift pass up front. However, I still say that stinginess notwithstanding, Skiplan are one of the better employers out there. Your accusing them of trying to 'scam' their staff when you are evidently completely unfamiliar with their operation is a tad unreasonable. |
This is getting funny. 
Yeah, no poo-poo, an 8 person chalet wouldn't have a "hotel" manager. Not that this is rocket science, but let me try again: You described it as serving food, cleaning rooms, and being told what to do by a manager. It's the same job if you work an 8 person chalet by yourself or an 80 person hotel with 4 other chalet girls/boys or GAs. For that exact job, most decent employers will pay the package I outlined.
I'm not saying they specifically are a scam, but the practice is scammy. Most companies don't (yet) do it for the same job. The person seems keen on the job so Merry Christmas to them and hope they have a great season.
As for the vans... again, completely missing the point. Yes, most companies try to limit who drives and have food deliveries, but the scenario I described happens on a daily basis as do dozens of other random things during a season. (Just as an FYI, companies insure the vans, not individuals, in France.) The whole point was to illustrate why you don't want them to be holding on to much of your cash at the end. The same could apply for damaged staff rooms, equipment, etc. Once you're back in the UK, not a lot of recourse to argue your case if they decide to hold anything back.
| Lizzard wrote: |
| One of the reasons Skiplan give for not providing passes to hotel staff is that if they leave half way through the season, the comapny then has to buy another pass for the new member of staff, as lots of lift companies either won't transfer passes or will only do so for a set number each season. (This is true, but nonetheless a poor excuse, in my opinion.) |
Seems that Skiplan either needs to get better at buttering up the lift company, or improve the quality of staff if they have such high turnover they are exceeding quotas. In the 3 resorts I've exchanged lift passes for shitcanned staff in, it was never a problem.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 19-08-09 11:02; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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By the way it is not skiplan she is working for but Equity/Rocket Ski
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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kevducky, same company.
dbx, you are evidently used to cowboy chalet operators, admittedly in the majority amongst TOs in the Tarentaise. I was talking specifically about Skiplan/Equity, since a) I know about it and b) it's the company in question.
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You know it makes sense.
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| dbx wrote: |
This is getting funny.
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Indeed, it is very funny reading some of your nonsense.
| Quote: |
Yeah, no poo-poo, an 8 person chalet wouldn't have a "hotel" manager. Not that this is rocket science, but let me try again: You described it as serving food, cleaning rooms, and being told what to do by a manager. It's the same job if you work an 8 person chalet by yourself or an 80 person hotel with 4 other chalet girls/boys or GAs.
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If you really believe that to be even close to true, then there really isn't much point in taking any notice of the rest of what you say, since that is such complete nonsense.
If you are working an 8 person chalet by yourself, then you are in charge of that chalet, and you have the rresponsibility of making the day to day decisions, and that will usually include the repsonsibility of making sure you have all the eneded provisions etc, deciding what to cook and how to cook it, doing saod cooking, etc. etc.
If you are a GA working in a hotel, then you have virtually no responsibility at all. You will have a manager who makes all those decisions, and all you have to do is what you are told.
They are very different jobs, which just happen to have some of the physical elements similar.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| dbx wrote: |
Lizzard...
so higher pay and better employment terms = cowboy operators?  stunning logic.
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What an idiotic post.
Why on earth do you think there would be any logic to what you have posted ?.
And given that it had nothing to do with what Pam posted anyhow, why did you attempt to make a point that way?
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as to your second point .... "majority of TOs in val d'isere, tignes, courchevel, les arcs, meribel, etc, are cowboy operators" .... didn't think this thread could get much funnier, but well done. |
I rather suspect Pam has more experience than you do in that area. And again, even though you put quote marks around it, that wasn't actually quite what she said.
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Poster: A snowHead
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O Eck!! I only wanted to know if the pay was OK. Didn't mean to sart a Civil war. She is now thinking of doing level 1 ski Instructors course at the Chill Factor so she has a chance of being promoted to £175pm.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Esprit open day was a waste of a train ticket. Told to fill in online application form anyway, despite website saying they could even apply and be interviewed on the day if they liked what they saw.  . He will also have to cut off his dreadlocks.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| Esprit open day was a waste of a train ticket. Told to fill in online application form anyway, despite website saying they could even apply and be interviewed on the day if they liked what they saw. . He will also have to cut off his dreadlocks. |
That was a bit naughty. were there many attended? Tell him to try SkiBound in October. They are def interviews
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kevducky, he was there quite promptly at 2pm, only one person from Esprit there, and a couple of people ahead of him in queue. Said that most of jobs had been offered, but there were still some vacancies and a lot hadn't yet paid their bond. Holding interviews there tomorrow according to website, but he has to be back in Durham tonight.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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General impression is of (willing) slave labour!
Work hard every day of the season (and play hard, I'll admit that).
Live in an overcrowded hell hole.
Get paid bug all. Pocket money NOT wages.
Lose your bond if you wake up and smell the coffee.
So can someone explain to me just how our friend Nixmap was such a swine as to offer
Nice accomadation
Work a few days a week.
Doesn't seem a bad trade to me: better housing, less work.....don't get paid pocket money.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rungsp, son would prefer a proper resort job rather than a tour op one tbh. He's a language student, so speaking the language is more of a priority.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
If you are working an 8 person chalet by yourself, then you are in charge of that chalet, and you have the rresponsibility of making the day to day decisions, and that will usually include the repsonsibility of making sure you have all the eneded provisions etc, deciding what to cook and how to cook it, doing saod cooking, etc. etc.
If you are a GA working in a hotel, then you have virtually no responsibility at all. You will have a manager who makes all those decisions, and all you have to do is what you are told.
They are very different jobs, which just happen to have some of the physical elements similar. |
Let's try one more time: The renumeration package I outlined was for a basic chalet girl/boy job, the same thing as a GA. They will clean the chalet, serve the food prepared by a chalet chef, and get bossed around by pretty much everyone else (chalet chef, host, rep, and resort manager). No shopping, no cooking, no responsibility. As I said, it is the same job that the original poster asked about. You are describing a chalet chef job, which we are not discussing.
| alex_heney wrote: |
| dbx wrote: |
so higher pay and better employment terms = cowboy operators? stunning logic.
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What an idiotic post.
Why on earth do you think there would be any logic to what you have posted ?.
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You don't seem to realize it, but you are agreeing with me: There's no logic to the statement. Pam (Lizzard?) has said that because I am in the Tarentaise, I must be used to cowboy operators. Considering I was telling the OP his daughter could find a better deal than was offered by the non-Tarentaise company Pam is recommending, her statement seems a bit illogical.
| alex_heney wrote: |
| I rather suspect Pam has more experience than you do in that area. And again, even though you put quote marks around it, that wasn't actually quite what she said. |
Yes, I also rather suspect Pam is experienced. It was actually exactly what she said: "You are evidently used to cowboy chalet operators, admittedly in the majority amongst TOs in the Tarentaise."
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| dbx wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
If you are working an 8 person chalet by yourself, then you are in charge of that chalet, and you have the rresponsibility of making the day to day decisions, and that will usually include the repsonsibility of making sure you have all the eneded provisions etc, deciding what to cook and how to cook it, doing saod cooking, etc. etc.
If you are a GA working in a hotel, then you have virtually no responsibility at all. You will have a manager who makes all those decisions, and all you have to do is what you are told.
They are very different jobs, which just happen to have some of the physical elements similar. |
Let's try one more time: The renumeration package I outlined was for a basic chalet girl/boy job, the same thing as a GA. They will clean the chalet, serve the food prepared by a chalet chef, and get bossed around by pretty much everyone else (chalet chef, host, rep, and resort manager). No shopping, no cooking, no responsibility. As I said, it is the same job that the original poster asked about. You are describing a chalet chef job, which we are not discussing.
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You seem to be very good at slightly misquoting, even doing so to yourself.
That isn't what you said at all. You said that it made no difference whether you were doing that job or "if you work an 8 person chalet by yourself ".
If you are working an 8 person chalet by yourself, then you are a chalet chef (and everything else). You do NOT normally find more than one person staffing an 8 person chalet, except at the very top end.
| Quote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| dbx wrote: |
so higher pay and better employment terms = cowboy operators? stunning logic.
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What an idiotic post.
Why on earth do you think there would be any logic to what you have posted ?.
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You don't seem to realize it, but you are agreeing with me: There's no logic to the statement.
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You are the one who made it. Nobody else had suggested any such thing.
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Pam (Lizzard?) has said that because I am in the Tarentaise, I must be used to cowboy operators.
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Yet another misrepresentation of what was aid. She said nothing whatsoever about "because you are in the tarentaise".
She was basing it entirely on what you had posted here about other chalet operators. You appear from those posts to be "used to" (which doesn't mean the same as workikng in) chalets rujn by "cowboy operators". Nothing to do with where you are, or with who you work for, but based pureloy on what you had written about chalet operators.
BTW Pam W and Lizzard are two different women, living in differenbt parts of the French alps.
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Considering I was telling the OP his daughter could find a better deal than was offered by the non-Tarentaise company Pam is recommending, her statement seems a bit illogical.
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If she had said what you claimed, then possibly you would have been right about it being illogical. But she didn't.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| I rather suspect Pam has more experience than you do in that area. And again, even though you put quote marks around it, that wasn't actually quite what she said. |
Yes, I also rather suspect Pam is experienced. It was actually exactly what she said: "You are evidently used to cowboy chalet operators, admittedly in the majority amongst TOs in the Tarentaise." |
If you put quotes around something, then it should be an exact quote, not a paraphrase, even if it does mean almost exactly the same.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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dbx, Pam and Lizzard are not the same person
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FFS!
I hate this forum, no disscusion!
However I will still read and comment on the odd thread!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Helen Beaumont, if son wants a local job he should look here: http://www.pole-emploi.fr/accueilpe/ And he's going to have to lose the dreadlocks for practically anything customer-facing, I'm afraid. He should also try the lift companies for cashier/lift op - they like Engliush speakers (I get paid an extra 48,01€ a month for speaking English, regarding which I feel a bit of a fraud). I don't think they advertise though (DAL doesn't) because they pay better than most things and don't need to.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lizzard, he knows he'll have to get rid of them, and he's prepared to do it if he has to, he's just putting it off for as long as he can.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| And he's going to have to lose the dreadlocks for practically anything customer-facing, I'm afraid. |
Why?
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You know it makes sense.
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manicpb, not 'conventional' appearance, which is what they require.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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manicpb, for the same reasons no-one accepts tattoos, freaky hair colours or facial shrapnel. Ski punters are nice middle class, middle aged fat people who don't like that sort of thing in their waiting/bar/sales/management staff.
I am absolutely sure you are already aware of this, as I know for a fact that SkiBound will have mentioned it at interview (having been one of their interviewers myself at one point).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Helen, I'm afraid that is total bull. If your son has good language skills he can easily get a job in a french/german speaking bar and is prob more 'cool' than any other applicant!
Surely we all know that the Alps holds some of the most laid back people we know, unlike the banking/law/health and other industries! If you don't mind me asking how old is your son?
I honestly wish him the best of luck...without cutting off his hair! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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manicpb, 21. I like the dreads too, unfortunately British based employers don't . I've seen plenty of dreadlocks in ski resorts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lizzard wrote: |
I am absolutely sure you are already aware of this, as I know for a fact that SkiBound will have mentioned it at interview (having been one of their interviewers myself at one point). |
I have a skinhead but have got on ok, I'm not kicking off but I do find that a little steriotipical (spell check)!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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manicpb, however, as Lizzard has a lot of experience in this area I think she is probably reasonably correct.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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manicpb, the shaved look must be ok, becasue that is what he would have to do if he got rid of the dreads.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
the Alps holds some of the most laid back people we know
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It also holds some of the most up-their-own-bottoms corporate whores you're ever likely to meet, most of them working for large UK tour operators.
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Ok, I do find myself getting dragged into things on forums (mostly here) so will leave it but still think that's a disgrace!
Best of luck to all looking for jobs and don't be put off by any beucracy in the ski industry!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lizzard, is right on here and although we "know" Helen Beaumont, son has the skills required, your average customer expects certain things and alas dreadlocks are not one of them!
manicpb, Dreadlocks or tatoos would be de rigueur in a hostel on Crete! I am afraid that is how it is, it may not be right but it is what is expected! Sorry!
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Roy Hockley, plenty of dreadlocked French people working in Serre Che, but that isn't the same thing.
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FAQ
