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New Ski Dilemma

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Apologies if there is a thread elsewhere on this (I've searched but could not find rolling eyes ). I've returned to skiing after a long break (having finally worn my darling wife down, and now the children are old enough...) and we had a cracking week in Risoul at Easter this year - already booked for La Plagne for 2010.

I spent this year on my brother's skis, and am keen now to invest in a new pair for myself - if I told you that my last ski purchase was 1985 (a pair of Kastle 195 sticks), then you can see i may need a little guidance through the new crop!

I'd count myself as a fairly advanced skiier (14 weeks under my belt), and will cope with most pistes that the mountain can throw at me fairly comfortably. I like to get off piste if possible, and would like to pick a ski that will help me develop this element of my ability. I'm 6'1", a little over 15 stone and ski quite athletically (well, that's what it feels like...might look completely different through somebody else's eyes Laughing ).

I've done some internet research, and took myself down to MK this week for an afternoon's demo of some skis from EB (thanks Steve who was a great help in choosing what to test). Here's a brief run down of my thoughts, and I'd welcome any advice that's out there (which I'm sure is going to be plentiful and extremely helpful!).

Because i liked the reviews, I started with the Apache Recon in a 177. Perhaps it was because I'd not been on skis for 4 months, but I didn't find them as responsive as I'd expected - a bit "heavy" at the toe and took some effort to initiate the turn. Next up were a pair of Salomon X-wing Tornadoes (I think they were 173s). These seemed much more responsive than the Recons (probably the length and me warming up my ageing muscles) and I can imagine they'd be a fantastic piste ski - smooth transition from longer to shorter turns (and vice versa), very nimble and easy to handle...but will they cut the mustard in the soft stuff (definitely not at that length and with my size/weight I'd imagine).

Steve then suggested moving onto the slightly wider skis, an plonked me on his personal favourites: Movement Yakka Jams ( Confused ), 86mm underfoot but not sure of the length. First run was a 'mare, but after a while I started to get used to them, changing from my old school style to a more relaxed stance. But not convinced.

Next up were a pair of Fischer Wattea 84s (176). Not sure if it was because I'd got used to a fatter ski with the previous runs, but I absolutely loved this ski. It seemed to respond as nimbly as the X-wings, and I imagine would give me much better float than either the Salomon or the Recon with the extra width underfoot. Definitely the favourite so far.

Finally, more for a laugh than anything else I tried out the Scott Crusades (lenght must've been around 180ish). I was seriously running out of slope time by now (to be honest, well over my paid slot Embarassed ) so could only give these 3-4 runs. Although they were quite heavy (and my brother said they looked a bit cumbersome...but that'd be me not the ski!), I actually quite enjoyed the ride - they certainly love the fall line if you're prepared to go with them, but would probably need to be used more off-piste than I'd be able to give them to get max benefit from them.

So my personal opinion is to plump for the Watteas, but I imagine I'd probably benefit more from the 184s. I'm interetsed to hear if anybody has skiied the Watteas before and what they think of them in various conditions; and from my (probably inept) descriptions whether any of the experts out there think they would be the right choice for a skier like me??

Waiting in anticipation...[/b]
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
they all sound a bit short to me - i'd be looking in the 185 region if you're looking to move off piste
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I agree with Arno on the length if you're looking to move off piste.
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Blunty, stop trusting reviews.

The overwhelming majority of non-professional reviews were written by people who couldn't ski your old Kastles if they tried.

How big are you?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Blunty, If this is any help I skied the Tornados 170cm found them similar to what you described 5'11" 12.5 stone (at the time of skiing). They were ok in fresh snow but definitely had a piste bias. I did enjoy them a lot. Edit (I'm still 5'11")
I think the Crusade will have more float in the fresh and at 15 stone you would be glad of this off piste. I chatted with someone who owns them and liked them both on and off piste. They are supposed to have excellent edge grip on piste. By comparison to much of todays skis the Crusade is not that fat (Its no skinny and its big Venturi tips make it look a bit of a beast) but it would seem from your test in a fridge not to much of a beast for you you could probably have used a longer run to really let it rip. Its got a bit of width and stiffness that would make it good in chopped crud and slush. IMO for a ski to be a good all mountain ski it should handle all mountain conditions. Skis are often discussed wrt how well they ski groomed pistes and fresh powder but in reality there are a lot of conditions in between, which are probably much more common than perfect pistes and powder for most of us (whether we like it or not).
Again think you want to look at the longer lengths ie. 189 for the Crusade if youre looking to off piste.

Cant offer much on the other skis the EB team all seem to love the Yaka's though.
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comprex, too true Laughing Laughing
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks for the feedback everyone (apologies for the delay in replying - a couple of days in the sea with the family took priority!)

Comprex, I'm 6'1" and a bit over 15 stone (luckily not very much of that is round the middle Laughing ). I'm starting to agree with you - and the only way to pick a new pair is to try as many as possible (thank the gods for a nearby fridge).

RPF, Although my favourite still remains the Wattea at the moment, I'm going to give EB a call in the near future and see if I can demo a longer pair, and also try the Crusades again but give them a longer time on the slope. (Nice to know you're not shrinking by the way)

Arno and Flying Stantoni, I'll also be looking for length (I hope that doesn't look as bad on the screen as it just sounded in my head Embarassed ).
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Blunty, I'm of a similar size to you (oh er missus), although about an inch shorter and a fraction lighter, and I'd agree with Arno and FlyingStantoni on the length question. At about the same experience as you I bought some Legend 8000s (78 underfoot) in 185. When I tried the 178s I found them easier on piste, but were way too difficult to keep from nose-diving in deep stuff and I got thrown out the front too easily by lumps and bumps. Since then I've moved to something 95 underfoot and they made lumpy crud way easier still - to the extent that I now love skiing breakable crust. Not so good on-piste, but I ski very little there now (except when race training). So the question you really need to answer is if you intend spending a substantial time off piste, or only make the occasional foray. If the latter then shorter/narrower is OK (say 176-180cm/78-82mm), but if the former then I'd say you need 185 +/- a few cm (nothing over 190 or under 180), and those Wateas would be the absolute narrowest I'd look at, and possibly a bit fatter would be better. A guy at our club (of similar size) has a pair and rates them very highly as a great all round ski - and reckons he can just about keep up on them with his teenage daughter on piste when she's on her GS skis (yeah, right!). I'm looking for new skis myself soon, and they're pretty much at the top of my "must try" list. I've not skied them myself yet, but the reviews sound great and the 94s sound the ideal ski for me. The other prime contenders for me are Volkl Mantras. Wider skis are more difficult on piste though, and at your current experience level these are probably wide enough to hinder your further development on piste (at 14 weeks I thought I was a pretty decent skier, at 44 weeks I now see just how much further I have to go, both on and off piste Wink ).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Blunty, more for your demo list, if you can get them: Watea 95s, Nordica Enforcers, Elan 888. I think you just might be pleasantly surprised, in spite of the nominal waist size.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
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Blunty, if you can get to Hemel Hempstead, we're planning a big test on 10 October at the Snowheads Ski Club. Watch the snowEvents forum for an announcement - which will very likely follow the September club of the 12th. You may find some more options to consider... snowHead
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Elans 888's are a great ski..

I'd put them in the same sort of territory as MX88's, Mythic Ryders, Stockli various as being around 88-90mm wide and with a more than decent piste bias....

You wont outgrow these skis for a few years but may just later desire a wider ski if you give up piste-bashing
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
JT, did you try the VXL last season?


Funny thing about piste bias, the skis I cite above straddle the piste|op line but the 'piste' ones are a lot closer to their 'op' brethren than to, say, cross skis or GS skis.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
No, but a friend loves them...

The hottest ticket of that type over here is the MX88..expect that to wake a few more people up this year...albeit EXPENSIVE..

I tested the 888 from the Elan guy and he just wanted to move them..for a ridiculous price....hmmmm, might have missed a trick, there..

The only thing that has me thinking is how do the 888, MX88 etc handle a GS type turn in deeper snow... as that is all about footprint, IMV..???
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The Crusades are AMAZING, don't be afraid to take them that little bit shorter around 180, they are NOT a pansy ski!!

I cannot stress enough how good these skis are; they grip and kick on ice and hard pack, turn fine on the bumps and they float beautifully on Powder and even landed me on a number of little cliff drops. I bought a pair and they will do almost anything and not by halves either. Seriously, my other day to day skis are big mountain powder skis and Factory race skis and these fit in between so nicely.

If you ignore my advise you just wont be able to get as excitable as this, and that would be a shame Razz !!!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks for the recommendations...seems like my demo list is getting longer and longer! Luckily no hurry for a purchase so can hang on for a bargain (hopefully Toofy Grin ).

I'll seriously try to get to Hemel on the 10th, work permitting, and will also have another bash at MK beforehand...maybe broaden my horizons again!

Appreciate the enthusiasm dulcemara, nearly went out to find myself a pair there and then! wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
glad to help..

Far too likely i'll be there on the 10th for some reason or other (the lady instructs there) If i am i'll throw a post up on here closer to the time as I'll definitely be on my Crusades, if you can fit in the bindings you're more than welcome to have a play. Share the passion that's why these forums exist.

PEACE
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
or sod testing and take advantage of kiwi1s rather stonking sale and get yourself some 181cm Nomads............

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=53393
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Finally managed to get back into MK SnoZone a couple of times this week in an attempt to whittle my options down - although I think all I've done is confuse myself even more.

Given my previous experiences, and the fact that width did not seem an issue for my skiing style (I think "style" is the right word...others may disagree!) I decided to go no narrower than the 84mm Wattea I enjoyed so much last time. In fact, decided to start on this to warm the legs up, and remembered why I enjoyed it so much last time out. Unfortunately EB only had it in the 176, and i think I'll need the 184 if I am going to make a decent fist of it off piste (being 6'1" and 15 stone) - still, I reckon the extra length won't be too much of a problem.

So, on to the Wattea 94s (178). Not as nimble as the 84s (obviously), but still capable of being thrown around in the fridge. Nice solid feel, and an enjoyable ride, but I'm not sure about those tails as I want to start learning to ski switch properly (need to do something to challenge me a bit whislt skiing "en famille" in the sfternoons Smile ).

Next up: Kung Fujas (179). Felt really cumbersome at first as i got on the lift with their 100mm waists, but when i started skiing I found out they were actually really nimble (more so than the Wattea 94s) and quite a joy to play about on. Even managed to find an edge on the icy bits at the bottom. Very solid and very stable - I imagine they'd perform really well with a bit of air under them (I can't really count the couple of feet I managed in the fridge!). Another option perhaps???

Than came the Atomic Snoops (176). 93mm felt positively narrow after the Fujas, and again no problems with wide and short narrow turns. Somehow didn't seem as "poppy" as the 84s or the Fujas, but then I didn't give them as long a play as the others as I had one more pair to get to and was running out of time (and steam). Still, an enjoyable little ride.

Finally, the Movement Jams (182 I think). Nothing wrong with these either. A much better experience than my first go on them back in August - probably because I'd got the hang of having something substantial underfoot. Did everything I asked of it, but was short on time so as with the Snoop, probably didn't get a fair crack of the whip.

Basically, I think I've whittled myself down to the Wattea 84s in a 184 length, or the Fujas in a 179 (189 may be too much). Probably still leaning towards the 84s, as with hand on heart I might not be able to do justice to the Fujas for a couple of years (my off-piste will be limited until the family are experienced, and old enough to explore the mountain a bit more on their own). As I'm unlikely to buy until a bargain appears (not skiing until April), I think at the very least I could probably buy any one of 4 models here and feel quite happy with them anyway.

Do any of the more experience snowheads out there think I'd be OK with these skis? Or am I missing something important?? Suggestions gladly received Very Happy
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Blunty, I tried the Watea 84's today in 176 and thought they were excellent. I have Yaka Jams (my brothers) and Dynastar Mythic Riders and I would say that unless you have a very aggressive skiing style the Watea's would be a much better choice. The Mythic Riders and other high performance 88mm skis are stiffer, more demanding and will be much more difficult to ski off piste.

But more important than any of that is that you skied them and preferred them to the competition. That is the way to choose skis! On that note, do try a 184 before buying that length.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Blunty, General rule for me is TT, run an extra 5-10cms..... so if the ski is a proper twin and you are 183...you shouldn't be looking at much less than 189, IMV..

Just my 2p
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Thanks guys. I'd love to test something a bit longer, but EB only seem to carry demo skis in the mid length model so that option
doesn't really seem open to me. I think I might just have to trust my ability to handle something a bit longer than I've tested so far.
I'll put the Wattea 84s and the Fujas top of my wish list, but with the knowledge that should any of the others come up for a steal,
then I could go for them without any worries. Bring on the sales!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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I tried the Kung Fujas and the Snoops at the snowdome the other day and found the exact opposite from you. I was enjoying skiing the Kung Fujas and felt they were pretty easy to ski them swapped on to the Snoops and they just felt much livelier. I was skiing the same sizes as you but am shorter and lighter so maybe you were just overpowering the Snoop in that length?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
lynseyf, quite possibly true - I still liked them though, and maybe if I'd had a bit longer to play on them I'd have felt more positive about them (only had 5 descents before swapping onto the Jams). If I did go for them I'd definitely be looking at the 184 length.
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