 Poster: A snowHead
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I wouldn't be letting a six-year old determine where the family goes on holiday. Unless said six-year old is picking up the tab, of course.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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hyweljenkins, Do you have any children around that age?
A holiday with such children who have really got it into their heads they don't want to be there would be no holiday at all.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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panda09, Another ESF fan then !!! Dont let them put you of France. If you are used to French Blacks and Reds, Austria will be a bit of a let down... generally speaking !
My kids (age 9 and 13) went with SKI COOL in Risoul last year (not sure what over resorts thay are in) and the tuition was excellent and all the staff just brilliant. I evenemailed to say thank you when i returned home which is pretty rare for me !!
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alex_heney, no. I don't have any kids, but how is that relevant? As soon as kids learn that you'll cave in you're screwed. It's like training a puppy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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hyweljenkins, Who said anything about "caving in"?
This is about a family holiday, where the aim is for all members to enjoy themsleves.
If you choose to go somewhere that you know a child of that age will not enjoy, then it is almost certain that nobody will get any enjoyment from it. Which would be a fairly extreme case of cuttimg off your nose to spite your face.
But it would only be "caving in" if you had said "We'll go back to XXX this year" and then the child had said "NO, I don't want to". It isn't caving in to take note of the fact that last year the child was unhappy, and said they didn't want to go back there.
And with 6 year old children (or most children over the age of about 3), it is most certainly NOT "like training a puppy". Once the child is old enough to reason, if you never take account of their wishes, you will end up with a completely out of control child. Which is not to say you give in to their demands all, or evne most, of the time. But whenever possible, you give reasons for your decisions (which you can't do with a puppy!). One of the worst things you can do when bringing up a child (although occasionally you have to) is to say "Because I say so" or words to that effect.
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It's a six-year old, FFS! Once there, even back in the same resort, and on the snow with a decent instructor, it will have a good time.
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| hyweljenkins wrote: |
| It's a six-year old, FFS! Once there, even back in the same resort, and on the snow with a decent instructor, it will have a good time. |
While that is not impossible, it would be stupid (and pointless) to risk it, unless the parents have some overwhelming desire to go back to the same place, or they know their child won't remember that well.
It is nowhere near certain, and I'm afraid your assertion just shows a lack of extensive experience of children at that age.
A reasonably intelligent child by that age will have a definite personality of their own, and a memory good enough to remember last year.
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alex_heney, well, I was a primary school teacher and was, therefore, more than likely in the presence of slightly more six-year olds than most.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In a way I agree with both points of view above. You maybe need a bit of basic child psychology - otherwise known as lying. My sister, at about 6 years old, decided she was "allergic" to pork. She felt ill after eating it and was even sick (ie throwing up) on several occasions. My mother was not convinced and the next time we had pork she told my sister it was chicken. No problems after that. If I was in this situation and wanted to go to a French resort I'd tell the child it was Switzerland (if it asked) and, if they get too clever, tell them it's a Francophone part of Switzerland.
And use an independent ski school recommended here or elsewhere.
Mind you, my sister did get some funny looks when she asked the butcher for "chicken with crackling" later in life. 
Most children that age don't have a major geographical sense of scale/boundaries/categories. My grandaughter thinks that "France" is our apartment. She loves it, and has some photos of her in it, with Claude the snowman doll. If we took her to, say, a hotel in Les Saisies she'd burst into tears and say "but this isn't France, where's Claude?"
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pam w, Yes, I agree with what you say.
I was thinking of it being an issue going back to the same place, rather than the same country, and I agree that same or different country shouldn't be an issue at that age.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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andyph, apart from wandering down to Wellington Street or Bath Road for a cwtch with alex_heney, all I've got left is this...
Kids need to learn that they're not in charge. What they are learning, however, is that if they whine and whinge enough parents give in because that's the easy option. I very much doubt that any six-year old will notice the difference between Les Arcs and Zermatt once dropped on to the slopes.
The OP should be considering a different ski school, rather than a different country, and should in no way be letter a six-year old have a controlling stake in where a family goes on holiday. Although it is, of course, a family holiday, to be enjoyed by all members of the family, I don't think for a minute that any children of that age identify where they are when there are snowmen to be made, sledging to be done, and fit, female, French ski instructors to oggle at.
I watch Super Nanny. It's hilarious. I usually end up shouting something like "It's a four year-old!" It's time parents took charge and stopped pandering to every whim a child has. It's also time parents with babies in pushchairs stayed out of Caffe Nero at lunchtime.
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| hyweljenkins wrote: |
| It's also time parents with babies in pushchairs stayed out of Caffe Nero at lunchtime. |
sore point ??
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You know it makes sense.
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Wayne, very.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm pretty sure if I'd ever argued the toss with my parents as to where we were going on holiday, I'd have received a sound thrashing for my troubles. But then again I knew from an early age that 'things' cost money, and we didn't have very much of that, and to be grateful that we were going for a long weekend in Cleethorpes.
When my parents said "ee up childer, us is off to Mablethorpe th'day" we were delighted, not argumentative.
Youth of today, eh.
Give them a hefty clout next time they play up, the spoilt little feckers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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paulio, did you just accidentally let The Voice of Reason slip out?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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hyweljenkins, Things are not nearly as black and white as you are portraying them. It isn't "all or nothing" as you seem to think.
Yes, kids need to learn who is in charge. But that does not mean you take no account of their wishes.
And it is most definitely not the case that either you always tell them or they learn that "if they whine and whinge enough parents give in because that's the easy option." There is a huge area between those two extremes, and good parenting is about finding the right balance of accommodating their wishes, between being totally authoritarian, and giving in to them.
And I certainly would never have allowed my kids to dictate where we went on holiday. But if they had strong feelings against somewhere particular that we had been, then we probably wouldn't have gone there again. And if we had done that, they certainly would not have known they had influenced our decision, we just would not not have gone there again.
I do agree that there is no need for the difference in the case of the OP to be another country. As Pam said, and I agree, the geography of a child of that age will be hazy enough for that not to be a real issue, even if you would let the child's wishes be important enough to be willing to forego an entire country. But I do think they will recognise where they are sufficiently to know if you have taken them back to exactly the same place.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks 1556garyt that is really useful.
So, I hope you don't mind me asking more questions, if the ski school you recommend is in Siviez, do we have to get the kids up there each morning (or afternoon) before the lesson, I assume so. Nendaz is the place we were discussing last night, the thought of lugging the kids along with cable cars etc is a bit offputting whereas if we could ski there that would be much more appealing even if it meant getting the bus or cable back at the end of the day.
If you hire a car are the roads ok to Siviez? I wanted to do that last year but the other half was very nervous in case the conditions were snowy!
I like that idea though since the taxi would cost a fortune I'm guessing, it was 110 euro each was to LG last year!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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have I accidently logged into mums net? LOL I wasn't expecting a lecture on child raising.
I am not "caving in" because I haven't said "we're going to France whether you like it or not" and then backed down when she cried. I am trying to sort out a holiday where most peoples needs are met and I don't want her going back to ESF until she's old enough to tell the instructor to stop being such an back bottom, by which time she'll be able to ski with me anyway I guess.
In my original question I said I was happy to go back to France if an alternative company could be found which it seems it can.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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panda09 - If your kids can ski Reds (and if they don't mind the long drag to the Plan Du Fou cable-car) then it is possible to ski to Siviez (weather permitting etc, etc, etc). However I don't expect you will be able to get there for morning lessons as to ski from Nendaz to Siviez in the morning will take at least 30/40 mins (unless you are really bombing it  ).
The roads in the region are usually kept clear and the drive to Siviez isn't a bad one so I wouldn't expect problems, but you can't control the weather... The drive from GVA to Nendaz is extremely easy and you should not feel nervious - in fact the drive from Sion (turning to point to go up the mountain) to Nendaz is almost like driving on a highway compared to some of the roads that snake their way in to other resorts... Also, I believe that all hire cars in Switzerland have to have winter tires by law and so driving in snowy conditions is not too bad anyway...
Last option is to consider the Neige Aventure ski school - as I said previously, I think Arc-en-Ciel is better but many people rave about Neige Aventure... and they meet at the top of the Tracout telecabin in the heart of Nendaz...
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Panda 09 - Can recommend Evo 2 ski school in La Rosiere. Another point to consider is that we have found a huge variation in different branches of ESF, I wouldn't necessarily write all ESF off completely. Our kids had a fantastic time in the ESF classes in Risoul - the instructor was excellent. Your 6 year old may take some persuading however.
How good are your children at skiing - another possibility may be to book them a couple of private lessons and then ski yourselves with them for the rest of the time - ours are now pretty good skiers so they don't really want to be in a lesson all week (and I appreciate not having to be up and out getting them to ski school for 9 o clock!!) and this works really well for them. May be a way of getting your 6 year old over any potential developing phobia about ski instructors although at that age ours did like the social aspect of ski classes.
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panda09, apart from any other consideration, if you go somewhere where parking near the slopes/ski school meeting place is easy, having your own car does make life FAR easier with kids. Wherever you go, of course, there can be problems if you wake to a couple of feet of fresh snow (you should be so lucky!) but in the right car, with the right tyres, and just taking it easy (and learning how to put chains on if it's really necessary) you should manage fine.
If you go somewhere in France, but use a different ski school, you won't have the "dreaded red jacket" syndrome. In our resort the "opposition" wear yellow.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
let's find out if he actually learnt anything or just had a jolly old morning off work
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 Well he shouldn't have the slightest difficulty coping with driving in the Alps - most of the people I see sliding around are certainly not advanced drivers. Are you going to be self-catering? A big supermarket shop en route can make a difference given the high costs in most resort shops. There are loads of Snowheads threads about driving and hiring cars in the Alps - just remember Swiss side, if you're flying into Geneva, regardless of your final destination.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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panda09, Just FYI I've had a bit of a change in direction with our family trip and looks 99% certain we'll be going to Kappl in Austria. I have considered this before based on reports I've read about being one of the best family resorts in Austria (and a decent height too at 1300m or so). I've managed to find a 3 star hotel right on slopes for €1400 for 5 of us for the week half board. Getting back to your original post - the ski school also does half days and looks like a great kids area (similar to that of Serfaus) mid mountain. You've also got Ischgl just along the road, where my mate was last year and his highlight was Kappl - thought the village and skiing (if a little limited) was fantastic - nice long reds and blues etc. Only an hour from Innsbruck
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Late to the party as usual but here is my two penith. The ESF is an infuriating organisation, we have had excellent and pretty bad instruction for our two and I have witnessed downright dreadful treatment in Meribel. We have used some independent schools, Magic in Motion in the 3 valleys were excellent but very pricey.
Now we have our own place in Les Collons (at the opposite end of the 4 Valles from Verbier) our boys go to the ESS in Thyon. They have a big mix of instructors from all over Europe so no problems with the language. We like skiing with the boys in the afternoon as well so they go for morning and lunch but this is not always available at Swiss half term.
Some nice blues and reds in Thyon although you would struggle to get to Mont fort and back if you are picking the kids up after lunch.
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1556garyt,
so, if we stayed in Nendaz and the kids attended the niege adventure ski school that meets at the tracouet cabine for mornings lessons and lunch (finishing at 1.30pm). Would my husband and I easily have time to get over to Verbier etc and back? We are both pretty good skiers and can bomb it if we need to.
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski, let me check, seems to be a problem punching out for here, you could try copying it and pasting it into the address bar, www.snowgurus.com.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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panda09, Yes easily...
Also there is plenty of challenging skiing around Mont Fort/Siviez plus there is some fun skiing to be had going towards Les Collons, (- I know some people say there is nothing more to the 4-vallees beyond Verbier but I dont agree with that...). There there is plenty of skiing to do between 9am and 1.30pm!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi Panda09
I can thoroughly recommend Avoriaz ski school. We booked private 2 hour lessons for our 2 boys for 3 days each hols, which cost about the same as putting them in ski school for the week. I'm sure they learned just as much in the 3 days as they would have done in ski school for the whole week. The instructor was lovely and we've requested him each subsequent visit so the boys greet him like an old friend!
Obviously this is only useful if you are going to Morzine / Avoriaz area!
Could private lessons be the way to go or do you need them in ski school all week so you can ski without them?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| panda09, We had equally as bad an experience wiht ESF in Plan Peisey in Les Arcs, would never use ESF again. |
Goes to prove it's really down to the individual instructor - my nieces had a couple of lessons with ESF in Peisey last Dec and loved them but being a bit old than your nippers it was possibly more the fact they really fancied one of their instructors I had an average exprience with them the following week - and no I didn't fancy mine.
Panda09 Another to add to the list for a number of (mainly french) resorts is Ski New Generation I've used them in both Plan Peisey and in Courch1650 and theyve been excellent. Was them that originally taught my nieces to ski along with their then 69 year old granny skiing for the very first time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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FAQ
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