 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi,
I have 5 year old and 6 year old girls, and we skied in France with them for the last 2 years. The older child doesn't want to go back to France (with ESF) because she didn't like the instructors. This years instructor continually called her stupid and whacked another kid on his helmet with his ski pole 
So, I fancied Austria but do the ski schools do a half day? It seems like they do full days which is a shame cos I quite fancied St Anton. Where else would do half days only? Not sure I want to ski the US, the 9hr flight and 3hr transfer seems a bit much for a week, for the kids anyway. Or could we ski France with a non-esf company?
We love places with loads of long reds and a few challenging blacks.
Any ideas??
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Welcome to  s panda09.
Frankly, that's shocking and, as much as I'm not keen on ESF, is nowhere near representative of what I see on the hill. I know it's easy to say from the outside, but you really should have reported that behaviour.
As sarah says, there are alternatives to ESF in France - I've got a lot of personal experience of BASS Morzine and they're fantastic with kids.
The Family Ski Company might be worth a look as I know that they have ski school helpers who ski with the kids at ski school to deal with any issues. Though, frankly, all of the chalet owners I know would take a ski school to task over the behaviour you describe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Thank you Sarah for such a quick reply, I had a feeling there were other companies, so I will look into what you have suggested.
Now I just have to convince 6 year old she does like France really!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
panda09, France has many alternatives to the ESF, but don't expect a Tour Operator to send you to them. There are also many British schools in the major resorts. First decide where you want to go and then checkout the schools. The local Tourist Office website is a good starting point as is this forum. As a matter of interest, who did you complain to about your child being called stupid? At any point, if you are not satisfied that the school you need to first speak to the instructor concerned, then to the ski school director. If you complained to your rep nothing will reach the school.
good luck 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
panda09, Most Austrian ski schools are 2/2.5 hours in morning followed by same again in afternoon and costs about the same (or possibly less) than 2/2.5 hours with ESF. There is nothing to stop you taking them out at lunch as we have done on a few occassions. I have came accross two ski schools that offer half days - one in Scheffau and the other in Gerlos, and I've only discovered these as we're thinking about them as possible destinations for this years trip.
Don't know if St Anton would be that great for the kids at the ages they are. If you can afford it Oberlech is simply one of the best ski destinations in Austria and allows you to ski St Anton etc. It is expensive top stay there but the skiing etc is great for the stage your girls are at, plus there's a great toboggan run down to Lech. A much cheaper alternative is to base yourself in Stuben as we did this year. My youngest was in ski school and class sizes were small - ranged between 3 and 6 of them in total. If you want any more lowdown on Stuben give me a shout
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks Wayne, I will check out that link. Sounds like BASS might be a good solution.
FlyingStantoni, I've been umming and ahhing about what to do for the next holiday, I love flying to Geneva and having a short transfer. 6 year old is on verge of tears at going back, and was in tears during the hols but it will be good if we can find an alternative. She didn't want me to say anything to the teacher (you know what kids are like) otherwise we'd have had words. The dad of the kid who was whacked with a pole did complain to the instructor, we overheard him finish by saying "if you did that in England you'd be sacked" and the instructor shrugged and said "This is France" Ho hum...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
panda09, that sounds shocking, even by the variable standards of the ESF. As others have said there are usually alternative ski schools in the big French resorts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks Esiski, we went independantly, and are happy to do the same again. I didn't complain as 6 year old was begging me not to 
Hi Boabski, I could take them out at lunch I guess, a few days. I will check out Stuben, flippen prices this year are a bit scary due to euro. I will check out Stuben
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
I know rob@rar, I've been round the block a few times skiing and I'd not seen or heard anything as bad as him before.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
panda09, sorry to hear your little one had such a bad time - can understand your concern that she has a better time next holiday. I can support the recommendations for BASS - though only used the one in Les Gets, which was excellent with a somewhat truculent 8 year old. When are you going?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
panda09, Welcome to Snow Heads
My own sons had an unpleasant experience with ESF (nothing as bad as you describe though ) and as a result, didn't then want to go into ski school the following year - it wouldn't have mattered where we were going, although it WAS France. We did complain (my then 12 year old son was in tears, and he's no wuss!) but to no avail.
My pretty aged experience of Austria, is morning and afternoon ski school, although with a long (2 hour-ish) lunch break, when I used to practice. Perhaps that would work for you? Alternatively, as others have said, there is far more choice of ski school than just ESF, in most resorts (the smaller, very French resorts, may not have much choice though) and they can be excellent. I have had excellent reports for Magic in La Tania, and BASS in Les Gets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Canada and the CSIA schools are great for kids, and half or full days is the standard. It's probably not an ideal option, but the exchange rate is more favourable than the Euro...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Thanks everyone,
thefatcontroller, I will check out that link.
Pam w, it was Lest Gets we went to this year, so we'd probably try another resort although we (the adults) had a great time.
Anniepen, sounds like I am not alone in my dislike of them. I learnt in Austria as a child many years ago and although it was hard work at times at least they were kind to us! If the lunch break is 2 hrs long that may be ok, I'd need to give it some thought and run it past the kids.
Loadsa surfing ideas for me this evening  thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
the smaller, very French resorts, may not have much choice though
|
Les Saisies is very French, though not as small as some people think (185km of lift linked skiing  ) but we do have an independent ski school, called Glisse Passion. We've had only good experiences with them. For group lessons you need to speak French, really, as even if the instructor has adequate English if all the rest of the group are French, you can't expect much of the talk to be in English.
We met an English family (through Snowheads) who came to Les Saisies and organised private lessons for four young children with quite an age spread. It was certainly a lot cheaper than putting the same number of kids through BASS. The kids had a lovely time, and the instructor was very smiley and fun (it was their first time ever, but they all voted her the best instructor in the world). They loved showing off to their parents that they'd learnt how to ski backwards half way through the week. I hope to use the same girl this Christmas for my grandchildren.
It's an option, though hard to arrange that sort of thing at half term, when the ski schools are very busy. Indeed, wherever you decide to go, booking the ski lessons you want is probably the top priority.
I'd be a bit wary about putting them into an all day ski school if you plan to take them out at lunch time. They could find themselves a bit on the margins of the group; quite hard at that age.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
panda09, have a look at www.snowgurus.com, I used them to find English speaking instructors for a large mixed ability group, and they came up trumps, sure they can help out with ski school.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 10-08-09 14:51; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Especially Spastic Frogs a friend of mine calls them...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
panda09, welcome to , and sorry to hear of your experiences with ESF.
Sales alert - although no direct connection with the ski-school, am an owner in Les Arcs
I concur with fatcontroller and Spirit1950 - you can choose to go full days (including lunch) but we like skiing with the small W and her friends, so always stick to just 1/2 days. She's been with them now for 5 years - aged 3 - 7, and loves it.
There are usually 4 or 5 groups per level, at 8 - 10 per group, so plenty of opportunity to find the right 'level within a level' for your children.
It can get very busy - over the 1/2 term week they even throw a third class in per day to cope with demand - so if you do choose to go to Arc 1950 or 2000, I would suggest booking ahead - I susually book when out in jan for the Easter weeks for example. They speak good English, can book on the phone - and if you are really keen to get ahead of the game, are in the village until end of August running the summer treking and VTT programmes.
Just for info it also caters for 'multi-week per year' skiers: Since so many of the apartment owners in 1950 ofen have the kids out for 3 or more weeks per year, it would be hard to find a ski-school that can cope with the advanced technical capability that comes ith that type of exposure but at an age that is often quite young compared to general 1 week-per-year people. Spirit have managed to build a range of skill and specialist courses to deal with that, alongside the more 'normal' skiing patterns.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Esprit Ski will be perfect for you. Opt for Italy rather than France.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Mollerski wrote: |
| Really? Couldn't be arsed to read every detail. |
The basis for a recommendation?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
4 kids ranging from 12-17 all of whom have learnt to ski/board with Italian ski schools starting at age 6. http://www.scuolasciselva.com/eng/
Is that a good enough 'basis'?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Mollerski wrote: |
4 kids ranging from 12-17 all of whom have learnt to ski/board with Italian ski schools starting at age 6. http://www.scuolasciselva.com/eng/
Is that a good enough 'basis'? |
Not really, without having mentioned the fact that your recommendation only applied to Italy. Just saying "Opt for Italy rather than France" isn't really quite enough, when his problems had been with a specifically French school.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Gosh, so much info to digest.
I didn't really want to take them out at lunch, as bonding with the other kids is half the fun. I asked the kids over lunch and they'd prefer an english instructor to a full days instruction, so it looks like France may win over. I must admit I do love skiing with them in the afternoons, both can ski down to the village from the top at Les Gets so it's quite good fun.
As for Italy, I've never really looked into it, we drove down once when I was a kid and the snow was rubbish so we drove back to Austria!!
The only other occasion was when I skied somewhere ?Zermatt? where you could ski down to Italy and the loos in the resturant were, ahem, filthy holes, so we legged it. Sorry, probably offended some people there lol.
We skied Esprit for a couple of years from when the kids were 9m and 2yr, once in Sheffau and once in Chamonix, and I think the second time the eldest was taught by Esprit staff rather than ESF, and last year I think I saw Esprit staff teaching at Les Gets, but not 100% sure. Maybe I should check them out.
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
As I have a place in Switzerland (resort 1hr 20mins from Geneva), so we always go there. I can strongly recommend a ski school called Arc-en Ciel.
http://www.arcenciel-siviez.ch/uk-home.php
They specialise in kids classes and they had my just 4 year old skiing down blues in a couple of days... They do offer half-day classes.
One tip I have learnt is to send my daughter to the afternoon classes. The reason for this is that most half-day’ers seem to do mornings only classes so the morning classes are oftentimes much fuller then the afternoon classes. Plus getting the kids up, fed and dressed and at the school by 9am is sometime a bit of a challenge!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| panda09 wrote: |
Gosh, so much info to digest.
As for Italy, I've never really looked into it, we drove down once when I was a kid and the snow was rubbish so we drove back to Austria!!
The only other occasion was when I skied somewhere ?Zermatt? where you could ski down to Italy and the loos in the resturant were, ahem, filthy holes, so we legged it.
|
Yep, Italy is disgusting, filthy, practically third World. You'll be much better off with those lovely pristine loos in France. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Thanks 1556garyt that looks very interesting, I have never skied that area before.
Is the only way from one region to the other to get the shuttle bus, you cannot ski? How long does the bus take?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
thefatcontroller,
Personally, I've come across no disgusting toilets in Italy having had many trips there and plenty of stinking 'squatteries' in France. One particular un-lit, filthy basement hole in Motteret last season springs to mind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
panda09, - you can ski to/from Siviez (depending on which resort in the 4-vallees you stay in...). From Nendaz (disclaimer - where we have our apartment so are completely biased!) skiing to Siviez is pretty easy although getting back can be a bit more tricky as currently the only ski link back is an itineraire route (or the plan du fou cable-car) and then a black run to the Prarion lift (have a look at a map of the area...).
The bus is about 10-15 mins to Siviez from Nendaz and runs with Swiss efficiency. What we do is drive our own car to Siviez in the morning (there is lots of parking and we always have hire a car anyway) and then you can come and go as you like...
More locally in Nendaz itself is a ski school called Neige Aventure ( http://www.onthemountain.ch/nendaz-ski.php?school&valais-shop-location=ski-snowboard-school-sport-shop-Nendaz-4Valleys ) which people rave about, although I don't rate them nearly as highly as Arc-en-Ciel (although my experience is with a young child).
Last comment is that I know Switzerland has a reputation for being extremely expensive etc and while that is true to a point, I’m not convinced that it is that much more expensive then the large resorts in France etc, although no doubt others will tell me that I am wrong...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
radar, The website you linked to is 'not found'
1556garyt, I don't think Switzerland is particularly expensive these days. I've been in and out over a period of years, including working there in '97 and found prices comparable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
They use ESF in many places? Thats who we were on holiday with when we ahd the disaster with ESF
. My wife especially liked the see through glass on the toilet door in one particular restaurant, especially as there was only one cubicle and there was a queue of ladies outside. 
