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BA to charge for ski carrage

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
achilles wrote:
stanton, probably because the authors never went through decent English classes during which they would have come across Plain Words and the like.


I really meant they make the whole process very complicated even when they are trying to make more revenue out of baggage handling!!

Just reading all this is mind blowing http://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-baggage-policy/public/en_gb

BA like many airlines seems to be Anti Sport & are penalising Sports people for there own inherent poor business model & appalling management.

For this reason I would not fly with them.

If you make a few ski trips your ski carriage is going to cost more than the actual Skis!!

I can see one winner out of this>> High Speed Train Travel.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Seems to be going up the chain at least


From: CENSORED BY WAYNE
Sent: 03 August 2009 16:17
To: CENSORED BY WAYNE
Cc: Groups Department
Subject: RE: Baggage Policy Changes - Regional and Sporting Equipment Changes



Hi Wayne

Your query below has been passed to me for follow up. I have been in contact with BA Groups in Manchester to clarify exactly how the new policy will be applied. I am informed that any bookings with a creation date prior to 31 July 2009 will have the old ‘Sporting Equipment Policy’ applied and that any new booking made on or after 31st July to travel on or after 7 October will have the new ‘Sporting Equipment Rules’ applied.

However, during my discussions with CENSORED BY WAYNE , I have asked how their Check-in Staff will be able to differentiate between booking made on one date vs. the next and what happens when you have 2 x sets of passengers checking in, who are met with different rules. In reality the only thing that sets these two sets of clients apart is the fact that they may have booked either ‘before or after’ 31 July 2009.

I have been informed that further clarification is being sought and I hope to receive an update by Friday of this week. Once this has been cleared up, rest assured that we will communicate this to ensure it is clear for all.

Meanwhile, to clarify, in terms of the notification that we issued recently, in essence this covered 2 very distinct issues:-

1. The Change to the general baggage allowance for World Traveller) on flights to and from the Americas (USA, Canada, Bermuda, Argentina, Mexico and the Caribbean) into alignment with the majority of British Airways routes around the world.

2. The Change to the carrier’s ‘Sporting Equipment Policy’ for bookings made on or after 31 July 2009 with a travel date of 7 October or later.

I will continue to press for clarification on the whole issue and hope to revert by close of business on Friday with a fully considered response. Should you wish to discuss this in more detail, my direct line is CENSORED BY WAYNE

Best regards

Dave CENSORED BY WAYNE
General Manager BA Groups

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Dave

Thanks for getting back to me promptly.

As our groups were booked and confirmed well before the 31st July cut off the new charge is, for us, non applicable in any case for the coming ski season..

But, for future bookings, it seems to be yet another (of the seemingly endless) ploys the airlines seems to think that the public and those responsible for group bookings will continue to accept. As BA now seems to be run simply to fund their pension scheme, it would seem to me that that is the place to look for cost savings, and not in trying to squeeze yet more revenue from a diminishing market.

However, as I said I would be pleased to receive, for the costing of future options, an answer to the simple question;

Does the new charge apply to flights to European destinations?

I would appreciate it if you could forward simple answer to this simple question.

Many thanks again for your prompt intervention.

Wayne
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Extraordinary that even their supposed "clarification" still doesn't make it clear whether the sporting goods thing is just N America or Europe too.

What a shower.

I've just booked some flights (not for me) on Asia Airways. Good booking website, and some cracking fares. About £70 Kuala Lumpur to Melbourne, and an extra £28 for a 30 kg bag. You could book an inflight meal for £1.70 extra. They probably don't get much call for ski carriage. Under carriage at no extra charge.
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Quote:

I can see one winner out of this>> High Speed Train Travel.

Mmmm - just booked for 4 over NY - Sleazy £690, Eurostar £1058, but taking in car hire and airport parking vs train + transfer its not so very far off
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achilles wrote:
alex_heney, depends how you read it. In beanie1's link under sporting equipment

Quote:

* One pair of skis, one pair of ski poles, one pair of boots..........

If over the free Checked Baggage Allowance, equipment will be assessed at a special excess baggage rate equivalent to 3kg (6.6lbs) of the applicable excess baggage rate.


The Checked Baggage Allowance tells us

Quote:
158cm (62in) 7


And Note 7 says

Quote:
length + height + width, in any combination.


Don't know about your skis, mine are 178cm long - so I would have to pay excess. If I have read everything correctly, of course. I am trying to wrap up work at the moment - so I haven't double checked everything, though.


Oops. I just realised you were talking about the Cathay pacific limits, not the new BA limits there. My mistake.

The new BA rules are that you pay for it as an extra bag, but the length can be up to 190 cm, which is what I based my response on.

Sorry about that.
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alex_heney, no worries Very Happy
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achilles, I think what they're saying is that sporting euipment is excluded from the standard dimensions restriction.

I have a HK based friend who frequently travels to the US to ski on Cathay, so I'll ask him for a definitive answer!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Wayne, I think the website here:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-baggage-policy/public/en_gb

makes it quite clear that the sporting equpiment policy applies to Europe too, as they have one sporting euipment policy, they don't differentiate between World and Euro Traveller as they do in the general baggage policy.
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beanie1 wrote:
Wayne, I think the website here:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-baggage-policy/public/en_gb



Not really, it says (on the link)
The changes to our sporting equipment policy will apply to bookings made from 31 July 2009, for customers travelling from 7 October 2009.

BUT, the "changes" refer to Non-Euro zone flights.
We "really" do need clarification. The reason is simple; the package holidays we supply are "fully" inclusive. The packages not only include the normal flights, transfers, hotels, lift pass, etc, etc but they also inc. ski/board hire "or" carriage. The theory being that everyone will need one or the other. We do try to be one of the very few companies to supply "fully" inclusive packages.

So any extra charge will impact us quite considerably. John from accounts says by around £13,000 in extra costs to us per year - remember that's with no extra income to us.

We will continue to chase for an unambiguous answer

Will let you know
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Wayne, if your company has already booked for this season i think you'll be ok - looks like next year will be the problem.
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Agenterre wrote:
Wayne, That's from Jaclyn in Groups ... as you well know you are able to agree specific terms with them. Bit unfair to add to the (understandable) confusion on here with specific responses to yourself as a 'Groups Customer ( with specific unpublished agreements)' --NO?


I think you are misunderstanding the way BA works.
"Group" = Ad Hoc private groups (Satg an Hen parties, sports clubs, schools, etc)
"Tour Groups" = booking from ATOL holders. (That’s us)
We book via process managers and can't negotiate specific terms unless the Co is a major player (like Thomas cooks, TUI, etc - that’s not us)

So the ski carriage we get for our clients is the same as members of the public. The only benefit we have is slightly better access to those who make the decisions and BA management.

Hope this helps


++++++++++++++++++++++

End of thread - bad news. The new charges "Do" apply to all BA flights.

Just received
Hi Wayne

Yes. The new policy in respect of BA’s ‘Sporting Equipment Policy’ applies to ALL destinations, not just the Americas.

I will continue to chase BA for further clarification in terms of how they discern, at Check-in, those bookings made on or before 31 July 2009.

I will get back to you separately on this matter.

Best regards

Dave
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Actually it's quite clear to me on that link: http://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-baggage-policy/public/en_gb

There is a new general baggage policy, and there is a change to the sporting equipment policy.

* It states the baggage policy appys to tickets booked and travelled from 7 October 2009..

* It states The new sporting equipment policy for tickets booked from 31 July and travelled from 7 October 2009. From that date your sporting equipment is counted as a normal item of baggage and part of your bagage allowance (as opposed to today where you get your allowance plus a free piece of sporting equipment).

I can't see anywhere on the BA website where it says the changes relate to America only. They policy seems to be a blanket policy covering everywhere.

ie. so if you flying to the Americas in economy, where you get 2 checked bags, then it follows you can take 1 normal bag and 1 snowboard/ski bag, provided its within the max dimensions.
For Europe flights in economy, where you only have 1 checked baggage allwance, then obviosuly you can choose to take a normal bag or your ski/snowboard bag, but to take that equals 2 pieces so you'll have to cough up an pay for an additional pieice of luggage.

In any case any bag weighing more than 23kg you'll have to pay a heavy bag fee for.



The only thing that is not clear is the position for people who booked before 31 July but travelling after 7 October.
Assumedly the original baggage poliy against which they booked should apply, but rather conveniently it doesn't say this. I'm in this position so will be contacting them for written clarification to avoid problems at check in.
(even this year in March under the current baggage policy, the check in woman tried to charge me for my board bag - i had to get a supervisor down!).


Annoying as I normally take a reasonable sized and weight normal bag (13-14kg) and my snowboard and a few bits in a slim snowboard bag (typically another 13kg). Now this pushes people to get big coffin bags and cram them full.

Shame, as I always advocated BA for snow holidays, now Im not so sure. They really are screwing up their market positioning, in my opinion.


G
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Wayne, Thanks for clarifying your position, easier to understand now that you are just referring to a generic relationship.

You're absolutely right though ... I've never understood how BA works , even if I were at one time responsible for those functions. Give Drew my regards!
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You know it makes sense.
Oh dear, that's not so good Sad I almost always use BA, mainly because I live near Heathrow so convenience and price make them a better option. We're about to book travel for our Christmas trip and was wondering if driving or flying is a better option, so I think the additional cost of hauling skis back and fore might swing this in favour of booking with Eurotunnel rather than BA.
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Gazzza wrote:

The only thing that is not clear is the position for people who booked before 31 July but travelling after 7 October.


If anyone gets that clarifed, it'd be great.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Even more annoying is the BA eTicket merely gives you a link for your baggage information (instead of properly stating what your allowance is).

This means the ticket does not state the allowance against which you booked and paid, because they can always change and update the web page that the link points to - which in this case is eaxactly what they have done - although booked on one set of conditions, in my booking if I click the baggage allowance information, it merely goes to the new baggage allowance notice.

I've written to them asking for them to explicity state the allowance and sporting goods position for bookings made before 31 July but for flights after 7 Oct, as ratehr conveniently the old policy has been deleted (or rather it states the old policy only applies for flights before 7 Oct).
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rob@rar, shirley it's OK, you still get 2 checked bags free in Club Europe Puzzled
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Gazzza, i'm in the situation where i booked before 31 July and travel before the 7th of October - when i click the baggage allowance information in my booking it takes me to the old baggage allowance information.

doesn't look too good for situation where travel is after 7 Oct, but i'd kick up hell as when you booked you booked on the understanding that you would get 2 bags + skis. Hope they come back with a reasonable outcome.
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It makes a bit of a farce of their price comparison with the budget airlines doesn't it?! When companies start changing their basic philosophies it's often a sign they're really deep in the doo doo...
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DaveC wrote:
Gazzza wrote:

The only thing that is not clear is the position for people who booked before 31 July but travelling after 7 October.


If anyone gets that clarifed, it'd be great.


Whatever BA may wish to do, the law will not allow them to unilaterally change the T&C after you have booked (as an individual). The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 make sure of that. (See Schedule 2, para 1(i) or 1(j)).
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For future reference (probably too late now for those who didn't so so prior to 31st July), it is generally a good idea when booking anything over the web to take a copy of the T&C at the time you make the booking, because those should be the T&C which will apply to the service you booked.

Make sure you print this off, and take it with you, so you can show what terms you booked under if there is a dispute.
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might be wise to do all BA bookings with a credit card.
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pam w wrote:
might be wise to do all BA bookings with a credit card.


How long before they start charging a £10 premium for use of credit card, like o'leary and stelios's brigade?
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Pretty sure they already charge a fiver or similar, 'cos I messed around getting money to my bank to use a debit card over my interest free CC Sad
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DrE wrote:
i'm in the situation where i booked before 31 July and travel before the 7th of October - when i click the baggage allowance information in my booking it takes me to the old baggage allowance information


If that's a public url (ie. not tied to your booking), could you post or pm me the link, as that should be the same conditions as when I booked.


alex_heney wrote:
it is generally a good idea when booking anything over the web to take a copy of the T&C at the time you make the booking, because those should be the T&C which will apply to the service you booked.


Yeah I always do, I'm anally retentive about that. What I hadn't realised in this case was that the baggage info wasn't printed on my eTicket, just a link back to the BA website. I didn't notice until I saw this thread and went back to check.



A friend of mine has just been verbally told by BA that if he booked before 31 Jul, the new policy wouldn't apply, the old one would stand. However I wouldn't fancy arguing this at the counter next year. I'm waiting for BA to respond in writing to my request.
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Gazzza, this is the old baggage policy here

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/bagchk/public/en_gb

and the old policy relating specifically to sporting equipment

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/bagsport/public/en_gb

hope that helps.

It seems pretty clear from the website that you'll be ok as long as you booked before 31st July, and they'll have the date you booked on their system so you should be fine. Just print out your confirmation email which will show the date you booked (just in case).
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Yoda wrote:
rob@rar, shirley it's OK, you still get 2 checked bags free in Club Europe Puzzled

I've only ever flown shorthaul Club when the taxpayer was buying my ticket. Those days are long gone for me now Smile
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rob@rar, i doubt in the current climate many people will be amused that you flew club class on tax payers money...
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You know it makes sense.
Cheers.

BA customer relations just repied to my message to confirm the old policy applies. At least their response time was good - got back to me within half day..


Quote:
Thank you very much for contacting us about our baggage and sporting equipment policy.

The new baggage allowance is effective only for tickets booked and travelled from 07 October 2009. Similarly, the new sporting equipment allowance is effective for tickets booked from 31 July 2009 and travelled from 07 October 2009.

As you have booked with us on 10 June 2009, the new baggage policy will not be applicable in your case.

The baggage allowance for our flights to and from Geneva is one bag of 23kgs (51lbs). If you go above this limit, we will need to pay an additional fee at the check-in. Similarly, each adult passenger can carry one piece of sporting equipment free of charge.

However, as there are restrictions on the large size and the associated handling complexities involved with it, there are certain equipments that we cannot accept as checked baggage. The below mentioned equipments will not be accepted:

* Hang-gliders
* Windsurfing boards and sails
* Water skis that exceed the maximum dimensions
* Surfboards that exceed the maximum dimensions
* Kayaks and canoes
* Pole vaults
* Javelins

For any further information on our baggage policy, you can visit our website ba.com. Alternatively, you can call our customer support team on 0844 493 0 787.

I hope this is helpful, and we look forward to welcoming you on board soon.

Best regards
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Gazzza, can you tell me what email address you used as I want to get this confirmed in writing for my flight too?
ski holidays
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Any airline that charges for Ski carriage I boycott & I would encourage other to do as well inc EasyJet,Ryan Air etc.

I have not flown KLM (anywhere) since they introduced the policy 2-3 yrs ago.

Swiss remain Sports Friendly sO I use them or better still I take the train where there is no mountain of luggage rules,charges & extras.
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stanton wrote:
Any airline that charges for Ski carriage I boycott & I would encourage other to do as well inc EasyJet,Ryan Air etc.


So you will not be flying at all within the next couple of years.

What a stupid position to take. All that really matters is the final total price (and of course that they actually get you there with everything you booked). It doesn't matter what is "extra" and what is "included".
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i almost find myself agreeing with stanton on this one Shocked Shocked Shocked

it's pretty disappointing - i am almost inclined to pen a letter to Willie Walsh on this subject
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alex_heney, disagree. part of the attraction of BA for me is the lack of what I may term the bu99eration factor. i quite like not having to think too hard about how many bags i will be taking until the day i am leaving
and swiss do reasonable flights to GVA and ZRH so it isn't too restrictive
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Arno wrote:
alex_heney, disagree. part of the attraction of BA for me is the lack of what I may term the bu99eration factor.


There is that, but for me that is a minor factor. And having got used to the fact that you are always charged for ski carriage on package trips with charter airlines, I'm used to including it when comparing overall costs.
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Arno wrote:
alex_heney, disagree. part of the attraction of BA for me is the lack of what I may term the bu99eration factor. i quite like not having to think too hard about how many bags i will be taking until the day i am leaving
and swiss do reasonable flights to GVA and ZRH so it isn't too restrictive


Yep, I've never bothered looking at the £100-£200 cheaper flights to Canada because I knew with BA I could just rock up with as much crap as I wanted to take and they'd take it - I'm sure my ski bag's been well overweeight more than once and no-one's even blinked. With that changing, I won't be flying BA.
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Hi, hope this helps

The new baggage terms apply to the Americas (USA, Canada, Bermuda, Argentina, Mexico and the Caribbean) and brings it into line with the majority of their long distance routes.

They will no longer accept sporting equipment free of charge in addition to the normal free cabin allowance, bet there is a few upset golfers as well!

If you have a BA silver or Gold card you still get the extra baggage allowance, or you can pay loads more and travel in Club World.

It applies to anyone who has booked after the 31st of July travelling after 7 October

Find a mate travel together one takes the gear the other the ski's.

No changes in Europe, so you can still take your ski's for free to Lyon, Geneva etc
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stanton,

So far as transatlantic flights by KLM are concerned, I haven't had a problem. Until this year. I recently booked flights to Vancouver on KLM and was completely confused by the information provided online, which implied that I would be limited to one piece of checked luggage (up to 20kg) free of charge, and ski carriage extra ($CAN200/bag!). I nearly didn't make the booking.

However, on biting the bullet, my e-ticket states that I can have 2 pieces of checked luggage (up to 23kg/bag Very Happy ), but subject to the overall 158cm size restriction.

Now, I can't remember whether in previous years this 158cm restriction was stipulated: if it was, it wasn't enforced. I never had problems in having my ski bag accepted as a piece of "regular" luggage - with the exception that I'd have to trog off to the oversize baggage desk to deliver the bag.

I await my confrontation with the bag check clerk, next year, with some trepidation.
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Just to add to the confusion, if you take 1 cabin bag that's under the maximum weight and size allowance and 1 equipment bag that is less than 23Kg and on or under the max dimensions of 190cms x 75cms x 65cms is there a charge? It could be that this is within the free allowance. Puzzled
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radar, thanks for that. so in europe you still have one piece of checked baggage plus sports equipment? is that the official word?
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