 Poster: A snowHead
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SimonN, many FIS skiers I know do - and that includes a number of World Cup competitors. I expressly said it also applies to the same skiers when free skiing.
This is another case of blaming the tools. Those concerned, equipped with helmet and goggles, have sufficient skill and piste awareness to be capable of skiing more safely, at greater speeds, than the vast majority of casual skiers minus helmets/goggles.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SimonN wrote: |
| Look at it like this. F1 drivers all wear full face helmets and they wear special braces to support the head and stop it turning around as much. their periferal vision is very poor and they cannot even turn around. Based on your arguements, that means it would be OK to wear the same set up in a road car. I think not. |
Simon, I'm guessing you don't actually watch much F1, or you would see the drivers turning their heads when they get out of the car. You'd also know that the HANS device holds their heads, and prevents the head from moving too far. Oh, and that the helmets are aerodynamically designed so that when in the cockpit the air will flow better around the head.
Maybe you'd like to comment on motorcyles? Even bike racers? They wear helmets. They look behind them when racing.
Maybe you should tell them that they can't turn their heads. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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WTFH
I am a bit lost by your post. I stated that the F1 drivers couldn't turn their heads in the car due to "special braces". I suspected that if I had said "HANS device" many wouldn't have known what I meant. The point I was making is that to be able to see properly, they have to move their head. This is because they lose periferal vision due to their helmets! Periferal vision is that which is on the edge of your vision WITHOUT moving the head. I never suggested that wearing a helmet stopped you moving your head, just that a helmet cuts down periferal vision!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SimonN, and I say a ski helmet has NO effect on reducing vision at all. Try it.
But I accept your point, I believed you were talking about 5 point harness belts.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SimonN, I agree with your point about loss of peripheral vision when applied to motorbike helmets but not when applied to ski helmets. I wear a Giro 9.9 and there is no peripheral vision limitation - that is to say I cannot see any part of the helmet or straps peripherally. It is my goggles which limits my peripheral vision.
With the ski helmet ear flaps in place my hearing is reduced, not drastically but noticeably.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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SimonN, so when wearing helmet PLUS goggles, occasionally...
| Quote: |
| they have to move their head |
. A reminder that any loss of awareness/increased incidence of accidents is down to the individual, not the equipment, in the vast majority of cases.
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Another incident in the States, with a 10 year old (no helmet) colliding with a snow cannon on Monday, later to die of head, chest and stomach injuries.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| ... my logical but unemotional mind. |
Fox-man, I claim my £5 - you are in fact Mr Spock! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PG wrote: |
| they have to move their head |
. A reminder that any loss of awareness/increased incidence of accidents is down to the individual, not the equipment, in the vast majority of cases.[/quote]PG
Totally agree. If you are wearing equipment that changes the way you receive sensory information, you need to change the way you make your observations. It would be like having your car's rear view mirror obscured and not using the wing mirrors instead! I happen to prefer the rear view mirror
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With or without a helmet, peripheral vision is completely inadequate in some circumstances. The fact that generally speaking race club members are the safest skiers on the piste is because they can not only ski in a far more controlled manner in all conditions, but have the awareness that virtually all casual skiers, even up to advanced level, rarely possess. The have been passing their advanced driving tests every year since they were small kids, in most cases!
There are no guarantees that the young American involved in the latest collision on Monday would have survived had he been wearing a helmet, but one thing's for sure. Your rear view mirror wouldn't have done him any good!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Peripheral vision is acutely sensitive to movement so to keep your 'collision avoidance' of others on the slopes working to the max you don't want to do anything which would reduce it.
Here's more on the 3 recent deaths in Quebec (one a toboganner) from the Globe & Mail which rounds off with some interesting safety stats from Ontario
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A 2003 study by the Canadian Institute for Health Information revealed that the most-dangerous winter recreational activity was, by far, snowmobiling.
Snowmobiles account for 16 per cent of winter injuries that require hospitalization, compared to 6 per cent for downhill skiing and 5 per cent for snowboarding.
More recent data, collected in Ontario alone, found that snowmobiling accounted for 23 per cent of serious injuries sustained in winter recreational activities, followed by skiing/snowboarding at 18 per cent, hockey at 15 per cent, ice skating at 12 per cent, and tobogganing at 7 per cent.
Overall, cycling is the leading cause of traumatic recreational injury, followed by falls in playgrounds.
Serious cycling injuries fell precipitously after the introduction of helmet laws in several provinces. In Ontario, head injuries fell by 26 per cent between 1998 and 2002. |
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| There are no guarantees that the young American involved in the latest collision on Monday would have survived had he been wearing a helmet, |
Especially as he reportedly had fatal injuries to three separate parts of the body, two of which are not protected by a helmet. As the actual cause of death (and other potential, but secondary causes) are not known, the lack of helmet is either completely irrelevant, or highly relevant....we can't tell from the report.
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 The report I read mentioned trauma, but not that each was necessarily fatal in its own right?
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You know it makes sense.
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PG, that's my point. The only conclusion reachable from the report was that some combination of injuries to the three parts of the body were responsible - including none of them. The (possibly unintentional) implication, as your rewording of it shows: "later to die of head, chest and stomach injuries", is that he died of all three - though nowhere does it actually say that - it lists three areas of trauma and says he later died. Also, the report didn't point out whether the police stated that he wasn't wearing body armour.
I'm not making any anti/pro helmet point here, just that it's easy to read all sorts of things into an incident when the full facts are not known.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yes I agree. But one thing is categorically certain, and that is the only point I was trying to make. That a helmet, fitted carefully, rarely exacerbates the effect of an accident and usually offers at least a minimum degree of protection.
I was only saying that in this instance, given the outcome, a helmet could not have made things worse and might have improved the lad's chances.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I wear a helmet. Why?
1. It stopped me suffering concussion while I learnt to snowboard last year
2. It stops son Tom (13 yrs) from using the argument "well you don't wear one, dad!" when trying to get out of wearing his. This argument can also be stopped by getting a "cool" helmet (usually involves skulls).
3. My reading of the evidence suggested helmets were a good idea.
At a recent Very Important Medical Meeting a Neuro-Intensivist gave a talk. He started by asking everyone to stand up, so all 300 of us stood up. He then said all those who regularly used a helmet could sit down. He told those still standing they should seriously consider getting a helmet. Helmets may not save lives, they certainly save brains.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jonpim, welcome back and an excellent link. Sums the subject up very well indeed. Hope you enjoyed your Gasmens' Gathering.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've finally succumbed to buying a helmet. I'm still not sure that they save lives, but as my friend put it, they probably do save trips to the hospital for minor head trauma. As I enjoy tree skiing, then I think that it's probably worth it, but it's definitely not an open and shut case.
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FAQ
