 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Colin B, but a large number of them have "75" plates...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stoatsbrother, Lots of Parisians yes. But for various reasons the Swiss, British, Belgians, Italians and Germans all seem to go mad too. Only the Dutch, who are invariably towing a rickety caravan, seem to drive sensibly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Colin B, Dont start me on the Dutch and their mobile homes/caravans .... someone needs to re-write their foreign driving instructions ... it is not mandatory to drive at 20 km/h when you see a hill in the distance, nor is it mandatory to drive in convoys on A-roads. 
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Agenterre, Alright sensibly is probably the wrong word, (very) slowly perhaps!
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Well I drove straight through, leaving Albertville at 2 pm yesterday. The Reims/Calais stretch was mostly very wet, and I had been driving for hours by then, so was slowing down a bit anyway and finding it no problem to keep to the limit. I was overtaken by large numbers of Belgians and a reasonable number of Brits who were well above the limit. Plenty of French too, but the Belgians were notably faster. By the time I did the M 25 and A3 I was aware I had really been driving for rather too long, though I felt fine, so my speed on that stretch was around 50mph. The road was empty, obviously (we just missed a eurotunnel train and had to wait for the 0125 - we were booked at 1800 tonight but I preferred to keep going) but I was just automatically driving a lot slower, especially as it was raining.
I spent time off and on listening to a brilliant audio CD of "A Hundred Splendid Suns" (or similar name) which made a huge difference. I also had a dismantled bed on my roofbars (bringing it home from France for a friend) so although I was doing 80 on sunny and dry stretches earlier in the day, from time to time, the overall lower speed wasn't a hardship.
When we drive back during office hours the M25 and A3 - particularly the latter if it's going home time for commuters - are the scariest part of the trip, but that's down to traffic densities for the most part, I suspect, rather than poor driving. On the whole I'm astonished there are not more accidents; I guess most people are OK drivers.
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JT, Driven around 50, 000 km in the past 2 years.. All generally motorway stretches. Covering most W. European countries.. so yes, I have driven on the continent.
Colin B, You are mistaken, but I didn't miss the joke either way 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| JT wrote: |
I can recall carnage on the Lyon to Grenoble route..... a car on its roof in a field on a straight piece of motorway..?????? and a multiple pile-up n the same stretch a few more kms down the road.. |
Guess what I saw on Wednesday... a car on its roof on a completely straight stretch of motorway, at 6.30am with not another car on the road at the time and some geezer hobbling around scratching his head. Luckily the police were already on the scene as it was right by the le Touvet Gendarmerie.
Here's a typical day of carnage on the roads around here:-
It is not just the driver's fault. Many motorway interchanges are poorly designed or done on the cheap. Where in the UK you would get a double road bridge over the motorway with long slip roads and good sightlines in France you will plunged onto some bizarre cross roads with road signs a gogo blocking your vision.
But I agree there seem to be fewer of the spectacular multi-car pileups of yore, but the same goes for the UK.
I attended an RTA in March which was such a scene of devastation you could not believe. A driver came round a bend at speed, (a local man that judging by the documents in his car), crossed over the center and hit the car a bit in front of me head on. The car could have been mine, I'd just stopped to pick up a hitch hiker and had been overtaken. When I got to the accident there was smoke everywhere, the motor of one of the cars was racing, there was a strong smell of petrol and loud rap music from the car that caused the accident was blasting out of his stereo. A woman covered in blood was wandering about, another who had stopped to help was screaming hysterically and pointing to "rap" man who had gone through the window of his car and had blood gurgling from his mouth. Fortunately another witness had already called the rescue services and a motor-biker was helping three elderly people in the car that has been hit.
I went down to "rap" man's car to see what I could do. Turned off the engine and stereo. I got a pulse but it was obvious that he was in a very bad way and having trouble breathing. He was completely wedged in the broken window of his car and it was impossible to move him.... as the car didn't seem in any risk of catching fire this didn't seem necessary. I asked the man who was talking to the rescue services to give them an update on his condition.
Anyway the result. In the old people's car the front side passenger had a broken wrist, I'm not sure he had any blood in his body as a deep gash was barely bleeding, he must have been as dry as a twig. The driver seemed better but was in severe shock. The rear seat passenger, an elderly lady, had suffered a fractured pelvis caused by the seat-belt as far as I could tell.
The fire crew had to cut the roof off rap man's car to free him from the wreckage, he was then airlifted by the Securite Civile to Annecy hospital. I'm not sure if he survived, he was very poorly when freed from the car.
My first aid experience wasn't much help to be honest. Maybe in other circumstances it could be useful. The accident was the consequence of poor driving and too much speed. I'm not sure how fast the driver was going but it is a wide bend (between Valerie and Bellegarde) which you could take at 110km/h although the limit is 70km/h at that spot. The driving conditions were perfect.
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davidof,  That sounds horrendous. Well done for doing what you could. The only time it's been relevant, my first aid experience (not a lot) was no use either - very badly injured motorcyclist who'd gone straight over the roof of our car and landed way behind us, having hit us head on. Entirely his fault - he failed to negotiate a bend and came at us in the middle of our carriageway. Very luckily (it was a country road in mid Wales) the first couple of cars along disgorged two doctors, who did an emergency tracheotomy with drinking straws provided by a German camper van driver who had seen it happen and was running along the road with his red warning triangle in his hand before I'd had time to switch off the bike's ignition. My first aid training didn't include emergency tracheotomy.
The motorcyclist survived, thanks to the heroic intervention of the medics on the spot. Took ages to get an ambulance - before the days of mobile phones and we had to send a passing driver to the next farmhouse to telephone. But he had needed emergency resusc. in the ambulance too - so all in all it was his lucky day, given that he was clearly incapable of riding the hugely powerful machine he was on. He was very young - a student. The car we were driving, which was borrowed, was a write-off but our injuries were minor - though horrendously bruised ribcage (I was black and blue) from seatbelt was no fun as I was breastfeeding a baby at the time. Fortunately he hit us absolutely square on and with such speed that he went straight over the top of us - his injuries were from impact with the road behind, rather than our car.
I have been very grateful to have avoided anything similar since; it was months before I could hear the road of an oncoming motorbike without my heart racing.
I have seen plenty of local French cars skidded off snowy roads in recent winters - and often wondered whether they were the same ones that forced their way past me on crazy bits of road when I was driving a perfectly reasonable speed for the conditions. But nothing horrible, thank goodness.
Trucks on the autoroute scare me - they drive far too close and as stated above, if you leave a sensible gap between cars all travelling at the speed limit, some dickhead will come and fill it up. One irritating habit of French motorway drivers is to overtake you, then pull in so close in front that you have to take your foot off immediately to re-establish a sensible gap between you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Take the train 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think I must have been lucky - I've been driving from the UK to here and back once or (for the last 11) twice a year for 18 years, and I've only seen one serious accident - well, actually I didn't see it but I got held up by it. OTOH I'm not usually travelling on holiday days, so that may account for it. I suspect that most  s are.
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easiski, Over 20 years ago I drove out to Val d'Isere - and saw 3 pile-ups on the motorways whilst doing so. So I rather assumed it was the norm.
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, not just in France. If you use cruise control on the Mways here plenty of a'holes will overtake you, then pull in front of you and slow down. :roll
The other perverse behaviour encountered is when cruising at 70 you come up behind a slower car in the inside lane and pull out to overtake, whereupon they then start to speed up, leaving you with option a) looking like a middle lane owners club dick; b) accelerating past the speed limit to continue your overtaking or c) pulling back in behind them only to repeat the exercise a bit further down the road when they inevitably and inexplicably slow down again.
Both of these happen with depressing regularity.
Don't get me started on those who do 70 in 50 mph limits and then 35 in 50 limits
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 20-07-09 13:55; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yoda, pam w, My understanding is that it is folks using cruise control who are responsible for that in France as well. They speed up just to get past you and, as Pam says, then drop immediately in front of you and resume their 'cruising' speed. Really irritating.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Agenterre, I think it's the other way round usually... those without cruise control tend to speed drift whereas those with remain at a constant!!
I think we're all losing the orginal point of the topic here....... a lot of the accidents described are as a result of inappropriate excessive speed or driver error (falling off a straight motorway)... we must all accept that the slower you are going if you have an accident then the results/injuries will be less so in that respect speed can kill (as per the governments justification of their speeding revenue)
BUT..... excessive speed on it's own does not kill as is proven every day by probably every driver in the world (I challenge anyone to prove at some point in every journey that they do not creep over the speed limit)........... there must be some other contributing factor... usually driver error... is a driver less likely to make a mistake at a slower speed...imo no they will just be able to correct it before they hit something else.
back to the OP topic 80->68.... will it make any difference? - imo no or if not no then very little!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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marcellus, I've never been in a car where I can say I've seen it happen ... subject came up in a bar discussion with some French guys ( they hate French drivers doing it as well it transpires) and the view was theirs not mine ! However given the setting for the discussion ... eminently dismissable !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Timmaah wrote: |
| Can we stop this stupidity with "We Brits are obviously better drivers than the French cause we're British! PHWOAR!". |
Of course we can't.
In order to stop it, there would have to be some of it first, and there have been no posts remotely along those lines.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Toulouse also has a 110km/h which drops to 90km/ on the so called "voie rapide". |
That must be a very recent development. I was home at easter and it was 110km/h on most of the voie rapide(s) around.
If those speed limits had been in place then, I'd have been caught by the fixed cameras... and sice I was driving my parents cars, I think I'd have "heard" by then! 
The new speed limit, whcih I wasn't aware of is a stupid idea.... Lower the speed in voies rapides/peripheriques in urban areas yes...but on motorway a whole is just nonsense...
After 9+ years of driving in the UK I find the drivers generally better/more relaxed here in the UK. E.g. driving in Toulouse town center is now extremely stressful for me, when it was a breeze back in the days...
But the roads in general are much better in France I find.
I drive 120 miles a days here nowadays, via motorway, towns and country roads... Believe me, there might be more crap drivers in France, but there enough of them here to cause just as much damage...To refer to some of the above, mirrors are very often ignored in this counry as well...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
It is not just the driver's fault. Many motorway interchanges are poorly designed or done on the cheap. Where in the UK you would get a double road bridge over the motorway with long slip roads and good sightlines in France you will plunged onto some bizarre cross roads with road signs a gogo blocking your vision. |
Funny that. I think the complete opposite!
I hate UK slip roads! 90% of the time I find them too short and extremely dangerous. Not enough distance to accelarate to merge into traffic, even on very busy dual carriage ways.... Same thing with exit roads: you either have to brake in a way that would make Lewis Hamilton look like an amateur or you have to seriously slow down while still on the carriage whixh is also very dangerous..
Motorways are better defo, but the rest is terrible in the UK...
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Short slip roads? You should try Italy then!
Actually I don't really like the German slip roads, since not only are they often short, but there's a tight bend right when you want to be looking for a gap to accelerate into. Except half the drivers just pull in to the main carriageway at 60 and spend the next minute accelerating to the 120 that the lane was doing beforehand.
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| marcellus wrote: |
| excessive speed on it's own does not kill as is proven every day by probably every driver in the world ! |
So what does excessive mean if it doesn't mean exceeding the speed you can safely go at? Which could be 20kph or 110 depending on the circumstances.
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andy, how long do you like the slip roads to be? I find the ones in Germany just fine to be honest...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Kruisler wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
It is not just the driver's fault. Many motorway interchanges are poorly designed or done on the cheap. Where in the UK you would get a double road bridge over the motorway with long slip roads and good sightlines in France you will plunged onto some bizarre cross roads with road signs a gogo blocking your vision. |
Funny that. I think the complete opposite!
I hate UK slip roads! 90% of the time I find them too short and extremely dangerous. Not enough distance to accelarate to merge into traffic, even on very busy dual carriage ways.... Same thing with exit roads: you either have to brake in a way that would make Lewis Hamilton look like an amateur or you have to seriously slow down while still on the carriage whixh is also very dangerous..
Motorways are better defo, but the rest is terrible in the UK... |
It appears different parts of the country have differing slip roads.
Round where I drive most, there are hardly any at all that meet your definitions. There are certainly nowhere near 10% of the ones I use that are too short for me to comfortably reach 60mph before reaching the main carriageway, and most of them I could be doing 80mph, even in my car. I can think of a few where there is a rather sharp bend immediately you come off the main road, but again, nowhere near as many as I have come across when driving on the continent (which has been mainly France and Italy).
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alex_heney,
A good example around my area is the A127. Dual carriage way, good slip roads at the main junctions..except that in between there is a multitude of smaller roads that can be accessed, or from which the dual carriageway can be accessed, and most of them have little or no slip roads...Particularly dangerous...
That particular road is not an exception. I found more of the same when I was leiving in Kent and London..
I accept this might not be the case everywhere... OTOH, the same goes for France...
Hence why I found Davidof's comment funny (in a totally non-derogatory way..)..because how differently people can perceive the same issue..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ccl wrote: |
| marcellus wrote: |
| excessive speed on it's own does not kill as is proven every day by probably every driver in the world ! |
So what does excessive mean if it doesn't mean exceeding the speed you can safely go at? Which could be 20kph or 110 depending on the circumstances. |
excessive speed could also be described as inappropriate speed regardless of what the sign says ........ in some circumstances 20mph could be described as excessive...
Don't get me wrong I am a Petrolhead through and through... I have owned some serious cars and organised some insane road trips where there was enthusiastic driving but there is a time and place...... and I don't think lowering from 80 to 68mph will make that significant dent of the casualty numbers!
(BTW there are crap drivers in all countries.... try Korea, China, India......)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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aaah, the joy of reading this thread after a 1000 km trip through France in a Belgian-plate BMW...
That said, I've been slowing down. Hardly ever more than 7 mph above the speed limit.
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I find the worst drivers are UK owners of German luxury cars
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You know it makes sense.
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Monday left Montalbert at 8.30 arrived back in Wiltshire/Hampshire at 7.30, nice clear motorway all the way and only 2 mobile speed cameras spotted. The usual spots towards Calais were unoccupied.
However, the 90k limit in the 2 x 10km roadworks section were being totally ignored by the Belge and French drivers of German luxury salooons.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The French have to do something as their stats have been terrible in the past..
Have a look at the annual road death rate for Europe considering how crowded some countries roads are or aren't
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Poster: A snowHead
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gortonator, good thing I'm not a true Brit, then!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gortonator, worst UK drivers are the ones that think they are great drivers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kiwi1 wrote: |
| gortonator, worst UK drivers are the ones that think they are great drivers. |
I don't imagine that is unique to the UK.
I suspect that in most countries (possibly every country), the worst drivers are the ones who think they are among the best.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm so good I'll quite happily admit to being terrible...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| I suspect that in most countries (possibly every country), the worst drivers are the ones who think they are among the best. |
Closely followed by those who use statements such as the one quoted above
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Kruisler, I'm also terrible along with most kiwi drivers. Here people let you out if you inch forward. In NZ they keep coming. The UK is the one of worst I've seen at jumping lights. I thought amber meant stop if you can do safely, not get as many cars through on amber as possible.
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In theory green means proceed if safe to do so but in reality amber (from red) means go, to get ahead of those waiting for green.... and amber (from green) means floor it to beat red.
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kiwi1, there's that movie... Starman I think? Red = Stop, Green = Go, Yellow = go very fast.
Netherlands is bad for that. So they build Verkeerdrempels (Speed bumps) at every set of lights and have a camera. But drivers still floor it to get through on amber/red, and I've seen a few almost airborne cars.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Monday left Montalbert at 8.30 arrived back in Wiltshire/Hampshire at 7.30, nice clear motorway all the way and only 2 mobile speed cameras spotted. The usual spots towards Calais were unoccupied. |
I've just done the 600km Grenoble Poitiers run to see the parents. Timed to avoid the worst of the Lyon jams and with an overnight stop in Clermont Ferrand.
Lots of cones out at the moment, there needs to be a cones hot line. From Grenoble to Lyon a lot of single lane driving due to cones. The autoroute after the St Priest peage has dropped from 130km/h to 110 km/h. The southernly Lyon bypass is 90km/h with a stretch at 110km/h but this is the same as last year. A poorly designed piece of road with very heavy truck usage. The horrible St Etienne autoroute is largely 110km/h. A section of 130km/h after St Etienne before entering the 110 km/h Bois Noire (this has always had a restriction on environmental grounds). We can then speed into Clermont at 130km/h. No particuarly awful drivers, a couple of 80 year olds having trouble holding an even course and speed and a Picasa driver who had nodded off it seemed.
North of Clermont there is a long 110km/h restriction after the peage... it makes sense as the two lane road has heavy truck traffic. Lots of cones too. Just after this section on an open piece of road we encountered a car in the fast lane pointing the wrong way. Wife calls the emergency services who say they have just been called and are heading to the scene to find out what has happened. Then onto the Montlucon dual carriageway. Still only partly finished this road is very pleasant, as good if not better than many autoroutes there are no peage but it has a 110km/h limit.
So most of the trip on 110km/h roads which I pretty much kept to. Extremely hot - 34C outside and very windy.
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FAQ
