 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
It seems to me that this is an issue not just limited to skiing. I have just started to enjoy the odd bit of hill walking, and the same advice is given to let someone know where you are going, but again there is no central place to tell or suggestion of who you tell. I guess the big problem is with those that would forget to check back in upon return and raise un-necessary alarms. I must admit I think the notion of 'tell someone where you are going' is a good one, it's just not supported in practice by who you tell. It seems to me to be something tailor made for a text/telephone message service. You call the number in the morning to say briefly where you are going and your expected latest check in time in the evening after which an alert is sent to emergency services. Your phone could then send messages or automated calls at time intervals inviting you to cancel the 'I'm out' message with a 'I have returned message to remind you until you cancel the call. If offered as a subscription service it might be quite attractive. Dragon's Den anyone?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
There seems to be a germ of something there, though I would favour it being more linked with the existing services. Simply to publicise where one could go to register off-piste intentions would be an improvement. A standardised financial penalty charge system for failing to register a return might deal with that problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| snowball wrote: |
| A standardised financial penalty charge system for failing to register a return might deal with that problem. |
it would probably stop people registering in the first place
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Arno, Hmm, yes, perhaps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
snowball, the thing is, if I understand the thread, the existing services do not appear to cope with 'tell someone' notion, though they would no doubt respond to the 'we think there is someone left on the mountain' situation. So far no-one appears to have identified where one should go to 'register off piste intentions'. Where-ever someone reports this it requires that someone checks back in. If the 'place' is not on the skiers route, out of or back into resort it requires that someone makes the effort to go out of their way to visit somewhere if the process requires the physical presence of the skier. It therefore follows that a 'phoned out and in message system is more likely to be used. Now this could still be with an office within the resort - I would think the best places to take on responsibility for registering off piste trips might be the local tourist information centre or main ski lift sales places. However, if a system was in place that didn't use an automated system to prompt for a response I still think that the return call could be forgotten unless someone in that office actually called back all non-reportees at the end of the expected day at intervals to cope with the missed all/out of range syndrome. That's why an automated system might be better - though said automated system could still tie in with existing services, perhaps being nominally provided by one of the responsible groups on the mountain. To my mind this is something that would have to paid for. So whatever happens the skier would have to cough up. It makes me wonder if the service could be paid for with the lift pass. It is possible, for example, to add in carte neige at the time of ski pass purchase, maybe the off piste registration assistance (OPRA?) service could be included for those going off piste in the same way. If the scheme is paid for by the skier it may promote its sensible use with returns being correctly called in, the penalties for misuse being scheme exclusion in the future and a threat to charge for any mountain rescue services that are sent on a wild goose chase.
Don't forget that if someone starts this service up that you heard it here first 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Megamum, I see your point but I'm not sure about charging for it. People are already put off by having to find the pisteurs' (or the guides') office, so they might be put off something you had to pay for.
The pisteurs' head office seems like a better focus for your idea - otherwise the tourist office have to report people not returned to the pisteurs which adds another, unnecessary level before a rescue is considered.
But as I said, even having a well publicised place you could register your plans would be an improvement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What happens if you change your plans midway through the day, perhaps in search of better snow?
Under what circumstances would you want pisteurs/rescue services to act on the information you provide them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Under what circumstances would you want pisteurs/rescue services to act on the information you provide them? |
Exactly, for example you could fall and knock yourself out early in the day, but they may only start to look for you at 4pm when you are due back....the most likely scenario here is recovery not rescue....
If you ski off piste on your own you need to be self sufficient, if it means skiing extra conservatively to reduce the risk then so be it....but you need to be aware and accept the risk...
| snowball wrote: |
| I see your point but I'm not sure about charging for it. People are already put off by having to find the pisteurs' (or the guides') office, so they might be put off something you had to pay for. |
It's a service, how else is it going to be paid for? I'd easily imagine that it would be a full time job for someone... Why would the guides office offer this service (for free!), I'm sure they would rather you hire a guide....
The SPOT transmitter is a good idea, with it having the option to request help from family and friends or the emergency services, but again no use to you if you are incapacitated....there is no one sat monitoring your progress....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Interesting thread. I think what we have to accept is that skiing off-piste (certainly in Europe) is more akin to mountaineering than piste skiing in that the notions of 'engagement' are similar...
If I head off for a days skiing on my own (which is not unkown outwith busy times) I take the same approach as if I was going climbing/mountaineering on my own. Someone (soon-to-be-Mrs.offpisteskiing usually) will know roughly where I've gone (but this can be fairly vague) but its impossible to specify more than this, since doing stuff in the mountains is (and should always be) open to variation in plans due to conditions... I approach solo skiing and climbing with the view that it is likely to take a long time before I am thought overdue and this becomes part of the decision-making process, I certainly don't have any illusions about having mobile phone reception and/or rapid rescue possibilities.
BUT.... this is what makes these things special... getting out in the back of beyond with friends/clients/alone is fantastic precisely because you get away from everything (rescue services included)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| snowball wrote: |
| Megamum, I see your point but I'm not sure about charging for it. People are already put off by having to find the pisteurs' (or the guides') office, so they might be put off something you had to pay for. |
Actually, I think it should be a service for people who're worried about not being found for days!
So they pay a small fee to "register" their intention to be found by a certain hour. By using the service, they agree to pay for the rescue service if needed. So at the appointed hours, they'll either have to report back that they're safe and sound in the pub, or at least answered the bloody cell phone to say they're out of the mountains. Or a rescue mission would be launched and expense incurred (and later charged to their account)!
So depends on how badly do you want to be found. You may or may not want to pay for the service.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I just dress as Waldo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Have looked at both Spot and Iridium, but as philw, noted above they still rely on the user being capable of using them. Neither could send help if the carrier was unconcsious, unless this meant missing a pre-arranged check in, when I guess a search could start from the last listed 'Spot' location. However, if you start talking about a pre-arranged check-in you are more or less back to my idea of a phone in system.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| offpisteskiing wrote: |
| BUT.... this is what makes these things special... getting out in the back of beyond with friends/clients/alone is fantastic precisely because you get away from everything (rescue services included) |
Exactly, being away from "it all" really does make these things special, both with friends or alone.
Megamum, you are right about the last spot location, if you pay for the advanced service your progress can be integrated into Google maps, but again this is reliant on someone regularly checking your progress / not receiving a check-in message....which depending on the frequency changes the scenario from rescue to recovery...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Off-piste - no-one as I'd be covered by the patrol sweep... although if I was heading into some trees that are tightish I just MIGHT tell one of my friends who are lifties... I always have my whistle on my jacket though...(hence tell lifties if maybe too far soundwise from others)
I'd never go out of resort alone(have far too scary a story about that with a friend who was himself search and rescue and nearly made a very large mistake)...
depending on location - side country maybe a lifty or accom pals etc...
Backcountry - definitely my friends in backcountry shop/hire/tour place (because I'd collect an epirb and maybe be hiring some other stuff, and getting local conditions etc) maybe park rangers(gates and offices all keep lists), maybe a few other locals(to area - ditto re local conditions as they usually have been there recently or know folks who have) perhaps, if dicey location perhaps police.... family and friends... (You want someone to start the search party process if you are not back in time and then there is the question of how much lee way - a day on a 5 day trip? 2 days? )... tricky because when I live in an area usually the local hiking club contains search and rescue guys and I'd pick one of them over family in some cases...
Re the leeway on trips issue... my brothers buddy got pinned down by wind on patagonian icecap... he was a week overdue and family had started search proceedings (they rang us first to se if he had checked in with us if they were not contactable)... luckily no-one had left yet due to the distance/time zone factor... and he called in and all searches were stopped... My other friend spent 12 days waiting for rescue in pakistan as it was a 10 day hike out to get rescue helicopter... time scales are so variable...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Isn't going off-piste without a guide rather risky? Never been off-piste myself but I was always led to believe it was a group activity with a guide. |
Depends where... some places have inbounds off-piste (Canada, Australia, USA to name some)
Also backcountry in places like Oz a guide may be an idea so you don't get lost or over assess and so attempt to go further/faster/carrying more than is practicable (hence hypothermia) on a multiday trip... but not so you don't fall down a crevasse... Many experienced folks in Oz are actually the search and rescue that would be called to rescue you... so who should they take as the guide? (they will often go when police etc will not move) The rule there is that you go with experienced folks first... but even then there is a very classic tale of near death experience(too much weight? going to fast into weather? post illness? etc tec) when very experienced people made some bad calls... and had search and rescue not headed into a gale at night they would have not been here with their families today... (Give them their due they also made some very good calls that helped save them)...
My friends(and my brother before he died) are backcountry guides... but they would never want everyone to be forced to take a guide...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
