Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Journalist attacks world ski racing for promoting gambling

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Sports Illustrated columnist Tim Layden has attacked the organisers of the World Ski Championships in Bormio for accepting sponsorship from 'betandwin.com', a web-based gambling site that accepts wagers on ski races. He alleges a risk of corruption by racers potentially fixing the results of slaloms and downhills...

Layden is vociferous in his views:
Quote:
Potentially, gambling can kill any sport through corruption that takes the form of thrown games, point-shaving or, in the case of sport like ski racing, race manipulation. Accepting sponsorship money from a gambling web site gives the impression that ski racing -- whether it's the International Ski Federation or the local committee in a storied-old World Cup town like Bormio is -- encourages the practice of betting on its events.

The International Ski Federation, which did not negotiate the sponsorship, has defended the deal.

Tim Layden's article, with the official position of the FIS, can be accessed here.
----------------------
Is Tim Layden exaggerating the risk, or is this genuinely a deal too far? It seems surprising that the FIS were not party to the negotiations, but one wonders if they had a veto which was not exercised. The comments of FIS President Gian Franco Kasper seem a little complacent, given the known corruption which has affected other sports where internet gambling operates.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Is there ANY sport where participants have not abused an opportunity to cheat. Open the door and someone WILL walk through.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Typical journalistic BS. A story out of nothing! Whether betandwin sponsor the racing is totally irrelevent seeing that you can already bet on ski races. So even if they had not accepted the sponsorship, the risk is still there. There are lots of sports you can bet on that aren't sponsored by a bookie. A sport cannot control whether their events are bet on or not and as most of the betting "fixes" are done by organised crime, I cannot see who an event being sponsored by a bookie makes the risk higher.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
SimonN, have to disagree. There's always room for abuse, and if you are being financed/sponsored by a bookies, there are regular contacts taking place which in normal circumstances would not exist between a gambling business and the sportsmen being gambled on. The article suggests that racers should not be allowed to bet on results, which just seems like common sense to me.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
We know (without wishing to sound particularly moralistic!) that certain industries connected with human 'vices' - drinking, smoking, gambling - like to be associated with sport.

It's for the guardians of sport to be very cautious about who they do deals with. International ski racing was sponsored for a few years by a coffee company - Lavazza. Large inflatable Suchard cows have also been seen at major ski races. I personally feel warmer about watching ski racing when I'm being pushed into nice addictions (caffeine, cocoa) rather than nasty addictions.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Sorry PG, but what you say is not so. I play golf with the non exec chairman of William Hill and part of his job is to foster relations with sports governing bodies to help crack down on fixes. Most of the sports fixes are identified by this sort of relationship. It is in the bookies interests to keep the whole thing straight Its never the bookies who organise the fixed bets. They are the victims. They are the ones who will notice a strange pattern to the betting and inform the sports governing body (and somethimes Police) about it.
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
SimonN, certain sports bodies do not permit gambling organisations to become sponsors, for a variety of reasons. Sporting participants are prevented from betting on the results of competitions in which they are involved - that is my main concern. And DG's point above is very relevant, ref. 'acceptable' and 'less acceptable' vices being promoted.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Don't betting organisations currently sponsor sports events accross the spectrum already? I'm not saying that there have never been examples of "race/result fixing" in the past, but by virtue of continuing relationships the problem (if there is one) must be very minimal.

Good last point SimonN, BTW.
snow conditions
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

by virtue of continuing relationships the problem (if there is one) must be very minimal.

.... errr .... the Jockey Club, and horse-racing community in general, might wish that to be the case.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
PG

The original question was about the asertion that by having a betting sponsor increased the risk of race fixing etc. I contend very strongly that it doesn't. Even if betandwin.com wasn't sponsoring the racing, a competitor could still bet on a race he was participating in.

Your arguements are about the morals of accepting betting companies as sponsors and that is something very different and wasn't raised in the article that DG refered to.

DG
The problems in horse racing are nothing to do with the bookies. They are the ones being taken to the cleaners by the race fixing. They spend more money on trying to keep horse racing straight than the Jockey Club does!

Forget the moral issues of gambling being a vice. When a race, match etc is fixed, 2 groups lose out, namely the normal punter and the bookies. It is the gambler who does the fixing who benefits. It is impossible for a sports governing body to stop people betting on an event. Because of all of this, in the interests of keeping things clean, there needs toi be good contact beteen the betting industry and the events. If you don't want the sponsorship because of other moral reasons, fine. But it won't make any difference to fixing, which was the whole premis of Tim Layden's article.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
SimonN, I do understand your point, but I still find that the combination of "honest" and "bookie" sticks in the craw wink I imagine that there have been cases where odds-on favourites have unexpectedly lost, and in such instances, the gambling organisation concerned is hardly the loser if it only pays out to the few that have placed bets on an outsider. Very hard to prove of course, but I have a vague recollection of a scandal in snooker with some Far Eastern bookies some years ago?

I am sure that the major organisations involved, Bill Hill and his friends, are very honest fellows - and I certainly would never infer otherwise. I just feel that a direct association between gambling in general and sporting competitors in particular is rather unsavoury.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
PG, like you, I have a vague distaste for the betting 'industry'. In my case, I think concerns about taking money from people who can sometimes ill afford it, for no benefit to the customer-base taken as a whole, is at the root of it. However, given that I'm very much against banning consenting adults from undertaking private transactions, and also that I'm generally in favour of more money flowing into sport, I tend towards supporting sponsorship from the bookies.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
laundryman, can't seem to make my mind up either way...
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
David Goldsmith wrote:
Quote:

by virtue of continuing relationships the problem (if there is one) must be very minimal.

.... errr .... the Jockey Club, and horse-racing community in general, might wish that to be the case.


Sorry, had to dash out DG. But I think SimonN sums it up

Quote:
The problems in horse racing are nothing to do with the bookies. They are the ones being taken to the cleaners by the race fixing. They spend more money on trying to keep horse racing straight than the Jockey Club does!



This arguement seems to be more about the moral issues and I would prefer to see the taxpayer having the freedom of choice to spend their few remaining sheckels where they please after the biggest robber has taken his bounty!
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
PG wrote:
but I have a vague recollection of a scandal in snooker with some Far Eastern bookies some years ago?
.
These were illegal bookies run by triad gangs! They are the same people who tried to rig football matches, cricket matches etc. And this is what happens when you try to stop gambling. Make gambling illegal or tax it or regulate it too much and all you do is drive it underground. That is where the trouble begins.

In the past there has been little evidence of bookies involved with fixing, but the new style on line betting exchanges do present an opportinity. Anybody can lay odds and you can take bets, thus acting as a bookie. This is why these types of exchanges use very sophisticated data mining tools to examine unusual betting patterns in a similar manner to how banks look for money laundering. These exchanges see their biggest threat not coming from competition but from punters loosing confidence in them. They need to ensure it stays clean.
ski holidays



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy