 Poster: A snowHead
|
How many weeks' skiing had you done before you did your L1? I know the advice on the BASI website is 16 weeks.
This season I've taught a couple of higher intermediate groups and had 17 / 18 year olds who wanted to do their instructor exams. I felt they both met the required standard (able to ski short turns in the fall line on red runs) so when asked suggested they give it a shot. I've seen other BASI L1s ski and felt that these kids equalled if not bettered their standard. However one had done only 10 weeks skiing, and the other only 7, well short of the 16 BASI suggest.
Is this normal, or were they just talented? Or was it something to do with their age maybe, and the fact they've learnt to ski on carving skis? Assuming BASI have not changed the suggested number of weeks experience in recent years, I'd have thought with modern skis you can get to the required standard much more quickly than say 15 - 20 years ago.
I had another boy in my group, aged 14, who'd done only 3 weeks (or so he said). He seemed like a pretty honest sort of guy, fairly quiet and not the type who'd have lied about that. For 3 weeks he was truly outstanding - he could carve (properly) on red runs, he could ski bumps, steeps and powder in the fall line (whilst the rest of the class where sat back managing a couple of long radius turns before stopping - as you'd expect with a bunch of intermediates in powder). I don't have much experience teaching this level other than at race club where the kids are coming every week so ski a lot. Can you really reach this level in only 3 weeks? I'd say he'd have a pretty good chance of passing his L2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
beanie1, i think it is down to how much training you have had and how many good lessons.. I had maybe 40 weeks but almost all self taught and i had a lot of technical problems to fix.
A good athletic youngster with 6-8 weeks of quality lesson time could get to L1 level IMO. I recon my 14 year old would blaze the L1 with that sort of time under her belt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| beanie1 wrote: |
| How many weeks' skiing had you done before you did your L1? |
I'm quite embarrassed to admit, but somewhere between 50 and 70 I'd guess, maybe a few more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
skimottaret, rob@rar, both of you had been skiing for a long time before you even thought about doing isntructor exams though hadn't you?
skimottaret, yup I saw your youtube clips I'm sure she'd blitz it. She's way better than some L1s I know - I must admit I was shocked when I first appreciated what the standard actually is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
beanie1, at a guess I skied 1 or (sometimes) 2 weeks a year between 1959 and 1974 - say 20 weeks. Then about 18 weeks as an unqualified instructor on Cairngorm from Dec 1974 to May 1975 when I did the BASI on the same mountain.
But I wouldn't take that as a guide. The BASI guideline is very adequate at 16 weeks. I think less would be fine, personally. What you do with the weeks is the main thing - if loads of quality instruction has been taken then I'm sure 10 weeks would be adequate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| beanie1 wrote: |
| skimottaret, rob@rar, both of you had been skiing for a long time before you even thought about doing isntructor exams though hadn't you? |
Yes. Started in '79 with a school trip, but didn't really take it seriously until about '93 when I returned to ski school after a long absence. I asked a couple of Trainers if they thought I was up to it and both encouraged me to give it a go if I thought I would enjoy teaching.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I haven't done L1 yet but am enrolled to do so later this year, then hopefully L2 to follow. Skied for approx 30 weeks. Instruction daily for the first 8 weeks in group ski school, then occasional top ups with the odd hour private tuition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I'd guess around 25-30 weeks and like skimottaret hadn't really had a lot of lessons and had/have fundamentals to fix. One of my au pairs however accompanied us on 6 weeks of skiing and could carve consistently, though she wasn't as good on bumps and variable. I reckon she'd have a good chance at Level 1.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i am sure i heard of one MK instructor who never skied outside the dome and got an L1.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
skimottaret, maybe even more than one...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
skimottaret, i know one Bromley instructor who'd only done 5 weeks prior to his, and that was all on plastic...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Its a long time ago but I had 9 weeks on snow when I did the old BASI 3 - (think that is the new L2). That was in the old days of long straight skis - with modern equipment young folk with an ounce of ability should be able to ski to L1 level with not very many weeks on plastic or snow. The number of weeks would of course increase the older you get.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
beanie1, It wasn't L1 when I did it... but younger folk can reach the required skiing standard in a very short time. BASI's guideline of 16 weeks seems about right, but I would not be suprised with people reaching the standard before then... but three weeks does seem a bit short !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
As a matter of interest, what does level 1 allow you guys to teach?
Are you limited to beginners or dry-slopes/domes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
beanie1, I'd skied for 12 years before I took my first qualification, but my son Boywonder took his CSIA L1 in Fernie when he was just 15, followed by ASSI when he was 16. Both qualifications on the lower age limits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
One of the problems I encountered when teaching at Hillend, the dry slope in Edinburgh, was getting a class of schoolkids one or two of whom were race trainees capable of flinging themselves down from the top at an amazing rate of gazelles while the rest were managing to wobble down from the middle station doing basic swings. Must say I envied their skills (not being race trained myself) but they did create a teaching dilemma. They weren't even much use as models, being too advanced and too specialised in what they could do. I quickly sussed out though that there was quite a lot missing from their repertoire. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I've never got my head round the X weeks skiing thing, surely a naturally gifted skier would progress at a very different rate to someone who was not as gifted and surely someone skiing regularly through a season, say every weekend as many living locally to the mountains can do, is going to progress far more consistently and quickly than someone just doing a week a year on holiday? In the latter scenario I'd have thought that someone could progress faster and be far more competent when skiing regularly even if they had less weeks on snow than someone who was a once a year skier and claimed more weeks of skiing.
I'd suspect that any recommendation from BASI is just that rather than a hard and fast rule and the best way to work out if someone is at the entry level is for them to get their skiing looked at by a trainer or tutor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
abj,
| Quote: |
As a matter of interest, what does level 1 allow you guys to teach?
Are you limited to beginners or dry-slopes/domes?
|
It wasn't L1 when I did it either (it was trainee instructor and you didn't get a qualification for it), but my understanding is that it qualifies people to teach the central theme (that means up to basic parallel so probably first week skiers), but ONLY on artifical slopes. Therefore no ski school should be employing L1s to work in the mountains.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| beanie1 wrote: |
| Therefore no ski school should be employing L1s to work in the mountains. |
Although it does happen. One of the guys on my L2 course was teaching full time for ESS having passed his L1 at the start of the season, working almost exclusively with British school groups in the Swiss part of PdS.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
rob@rar,
| Quote: |
Although it does happen.
|
Tell me about it! When I next see you I'll tell you all about the worst instructor I've ever worked with, who was just such an example.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| beanie1 wrote: |
rob@rar,
| Quote: |
Although it does happen.
|
Tell me about it! When I next see you I'll tell you all about the worst instructor I've ever worked with, who was just such an example. |
Although in my example he was really very good at Central Theme stuff, and was a pretty decent skier, although by definition inexperienced.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar, how much mountain safety and group management appropriate to mountain environment is done in the L1? Did you do yours in the mountains or indoors?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
beanie1, did mine in Val d'Isere and we did quite a lot of group management, it was kind of a constant theme.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar, I'd be interested to see how they do it in the UK though. You can't really practice leading a group safely and learn about where not to stop them etc indoors can you! Not to the same degree anyway...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
CEM, the BASI line is 16 weeks plus a description of the standard - if in doubt ask any qualified BASI member. When I asked a trainer he said if I thought the kids in my class where at the required level for L1 then tell them to go for it regardless of number of weeks experience, which is what I did.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CEM, what if you're happiest at the bar?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| CEM, what if you're happiest at the bar? |
all depends who's paying
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| beanie1 wrote: |
| CEM, the BASI line is 16 weeks plus a description of the standard - if in doubt ask any qualified BASI member. When I asked a trainer he said if I thought the kids in my class where at the required level for L1 then tell them to go for it regardless of number of weeks experience, which is what I did. |
regardless of their respect for the mountain, awareness of what is going on around them, the weather..... the guy i mentioned from snowdome almost had a panic attach when he saw real snow and a chairlift
but hey it is a great reveue source
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
CEM, are you saying that a BASI L1 instructor can achieve all the required experience and pass an exam without leaving a snowdome?
And that instructor could then be faced with real mountain snow conditions, obstacles, lifts, weather etc ... with no experience of teaching in that environment ... and be employed to teach in that environment? Is that really the case?
------
I'm not saying the world was perfect on the first day I was put in charge of a ski class. On the strength of demonstrating my skiing on a dry slope in London I was given a job to teach as an unqualified instructor on Cairngorm. With no prior training I was despatched to the top of the mountain on the (old) chairlift with my class, work out where I was, and begin a lesson ... in the mist! This was early December 1974, and luckily I was on relatively gentle gradients on the Ptarmigan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
David Goldsmith, L1 is artificial slope only. So no, then won't be faced with real mountain conditions.
BASI have also introduced the "Senior Instructor", which permits the instructor to teach up to L2 standards, but again only on artifical slopes.
It's only when you get to the full L2 that a BASI instructor is qualified to teach in the mountain environment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
RobW, correct, but it depends where you are teaching. Some countries have NO requirements for certification and anyone can get hired, any qualification is seen as better than none and L1's will get jobs in hiring clinics. there are certainly L1's working in the mountains in Switzerland & Australia.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
skimottaret, True. But anyone teaching outside their qualification surely won't be covered by any insurance cover from BASI.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 30-04-09 16:43; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Don't see why there should be a minimum requirement - what does 16 weeks mean anyway? Once a year for 16 years pootling round on blue runs is better than 10 consecutive weeks with sound tuition starting as a never ever?
Natural eye for analysis & enthusiasm v. time serving?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
RobW, presumably they are covered by the school's insurance. If no qualifications are required locally then I would be pretty sure their regulations would effectively require this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
slikedges, You would hope so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| RobW wrote: |
| won't be covered by any insurance cover |
I'm fairly sure that is also the case for Instructors working in Europe with non European qualifications such as CSIA etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
CSIA Level 1 is an on snow qualification, so mountain awareness, group management etc is covered. Insurance for CSIA Level 1 (and the other levels) state you must only teach to the level you are qualified to teach, which with CSIA Level 1 is up to parallel skiers onsnow.
BASI Level 1 is not an onsnow qualification, so mountain awareness etc isn't part of the syllabus. The two level 1 qualifications are not exactly parallel. If you think about it this way, in Britain, we need an entry level snowdome-type qualification, which is the BASI level 1. In Canada and other snow nations, they need an entry level qualification so that instructors can teach up to an intermediate level, hence their level 1 standard.
If under a CSIA level 1 licence I taught off piste, or something like that, and an accident happened, I expect the insurance company would tell me I wasn't covered as it wasn't intermediate skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowqueen11, they are parallel in the fact that they're only recognised in their home countries. Except by unsrupulous employers, or those who don't require any qualification!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
prehaps the 16 weeks is to combat this type of things
