 Poster: A snowHead
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From the BASI (and Snowsport Scotland) website:
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BASI and Snowsport Scotland are pleased to announce an agreement where both associations will work together jointly to deliver Level 1 instructor courses on artificial slopes. Initially, the Level 1 course will include training and qualification in Alpine, Snowboard and Adaptive disciplines.
The new agreement marks a significant step to help simplify the process for aspiring instructors who wish to undertake an initial teaching qualification that would allow them to teach at artificial ski centres. To read more click here. |
What on earth is gong on with Snowsport Scotland, one minute they're working with BASI, then next they're not, then they're back together again ... more twists and turns and tiffs and making up again than a Mills and Boon romance! 
So, are they delivering the UK Snowsports awards they've cobbled together with Snowsport England and Wales or are they not I wonder?
Anyone got an insight into this?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From my, admittedly disinterested, observations; neither party could organise an orgy in a brothel and remember to bring the condoms or KY. And from that I infer that a fish rots from the head 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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^ can't speak about Snowsport Scotland but that's definitely not my experience of BASI.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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roga, SSS always had a good relationship with BASI and used to run the SSS ASSI course. This was basicaly a BASI foundation (what is now a BASI level 1) so through an agreement with BASI gave exemption from the foundation course (it was tutored by BASI ISIA, ISTD or trainers). Then the HNGB roll out the united UK snowsports awards and SSS get on board with this scheme (fall out of bed with BASI).
Now, the SSS ASSI was really very popular including in England as it had the BASI link. SSS ran loads of ASSI courses all over the UK. The UK Snowsports awards didnt amount to much as it was the same old courses with a re branding attempt! So I thinkl SSS see that the link with BASI had more value to the potential members and are now back on track with BASI.
PSG
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gilleski, ASSI is UKSS Level 2 not Level 1. According to their website SSS have an ASSI/L2 course at Hillend at the end of the month. Maybe SSS felt it was easier to just do this than modify the Alpine Ski Leader course.
I don't think you can claim it as evidence that BASI is "winning".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rjs wrote: |
| gilleski, ASSI is UKSS Level 2 not Level 1. |
But that's not what he said . He said it was approx BASI L1 not UKSS L1. From looking at a couple of levels, BASI L(n) approx = UKSS L(n+1).
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rjs, GrahamN, Correct I was refering to BASI L1 not UKSS
I dont see it as winning or losing, people vote with their feet so its quite objective. The SSS ASSI was very popular but the new scheme on offer through UKSS seem not to have been.
PSG
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GrahamN, Take a look at the SSS website, this course is described as a "SSS-BASI joint L1", with ASSI as L2.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rjs, yes, and then look at the page for the Level 2/ASSI - the wording on aims, content, requirements and feedback is identical. At the bottom of the SSS-BASI Joint page it says "This is a course and assessment for people who hold an ASL qualification who wish to convert it to a UK Snowsports level 2 qualification." - so that says to me it's a SSS L2/BASI L1.
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Masque,
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neither party could organise an orgy in a brothel and remember to bring the condoms or KY.
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Can't comment on SSS as I know nothing about them, but it seems somewhat unfair as far as BASI goes, they achieve an immense amount for their members internationally.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rjs, The SSS website is very confusing as to levels.
The entry level for SSS used to be ASSI, SSE had a lower qualification of Club Instructor. When the qualifications merged under UKSS, SSS started offering the Club Instructor equivalent too, hence the UKSS L1 (Club Instructor) & UKSS L2 (ASSI).
UKSS L2 (ASSI) is roughly equivalent to BASI L1.
BASI L2 is an Alpine qualification, not limited to a closed environment like BASI L1 & UKSS L2(ASSI)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Didn't BASI offer a time-limited exemption for ASSI qualified instructors who wanted to progress to a BASI Level 2 course without having to do the BASI Level 1 course? That would indicate that BASI thought the ASSI (= UKSS L2) was equivalent to BASI Level 1.
How can a small, non-Alpine country have such a plethora of awarding bodies and multitude of instructor qualifications? Bizarre.
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Spyderman, The entry level for SSS used to be Alpine Ski Leader, they are still offering this.
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You know it makes sense.
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rjs, Alpine Ski Leader is not a teaching qualification, although it might include a degree of instruction, it's not primarily designed as such, more for leading school parties and the like. It is still offered by SSS.
rob@rar, That's how I did my BASI L2. I already held SSS ASSI & SSE ASSI. The SSS one offered exemption from the foundation course, but the SSE one didn't.
The BASI L1 course is pretty much identical to the old SSS ASSI, but the old SSE ASSI was a very different course altogether.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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My understanding is that the technical level for BASI L1 is a bit lower than ASSI - it's pitched somewhere in between Club Instructor and ASSI.
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Poster: A snowHead
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beanie1, That isn't my understanding.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, beanie1, it's proabably worth clarifying which ASSI you're talking about.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Spyderman, are SSS and SSE ASSIs at different levels then? I'm talking about level, not content of the course. That's just what I was told by BASI re levels - that they pitched it at that level apparently so as to be more achievable for people who would previously have done CI as an entry level.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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beanie1, SSS ASSI very much follows the layout of the BASI foundation course that you did. Having done the SSS ASSI and observed a BASI L1, I really couldn't tell the difference between them, both in terms of content and pass standard. The course is focussed on 'Central Theme' and is judged on a constant assessment basis.
The SSE ASSI is a training course, followed by a 1 day exam, it's very much based on performing a list of required tasks to a required standard, there's no feedback, just pass or fail on the day.
I'd say the required skill level to pass a SSE ASSI is higher than that to pass a SSS ASSI, because it literally can be a make or break 1 run situation.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar,
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| How can a small, non-Alpine country have such a plethora of awarding bodies and multitude of instructor qualifications? Bizarre |
Indeed - and this is what we seem to end up asking every year or two, everytime a merger of organisations or qualifications is mooted and fails.
I have a sprog who in a few years time will be wanting to think about gap year stuff and we have discussed developing his skill/interest in skiing through instructing. We can argue all day about whether that is sensible, but given the continued flux in what is going on - which is such that outsiders like me have no idea what is happening - you can see why CSIA would be the preferred option - even if trained in Andorra as now seems available.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| you can see why CSIA would be the preferred option - even if trained in Andorra as now seems available. |
I'd heard that CSIA had stopped running courses in Andorra?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stoatsbrother, OK. Maybe it's CSCF that stopped doing courses in Andorra. If your kid thinks that they might want to do some teaching in Europe I think a BASI qualification provides slightly more options, although the downside is cost and the requirement to do things such as shadowing hours, 1st aid, etc.
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stoatsbrother, as rob@rar, says it's more useful in Europe, and if he wants to continue with it gives him the option of doing ISIA which CSIA doesn't anymore.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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beanie1, I don't think he would ever be doing "real" teaching - just learning more about the craft of skiing and himself - but the point is really that rob@rar which makes (like the new title btw  ) - that all this faffing around leaves the rest of us confused and thinking that the awarding bodies in the UK are a bunch of bald blokes fighting over a comb...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| - that all this faffing around leaves the rest of us confused and thinking that the awarding bodies in the UK are a bunch of bald blokes fighting over a comb... |
That's very unfortunate, as what I see of BASI's work is not like that at all. The organisation is going through a huge amount of change, seems to becoming much more professional and has a coherent set of pathways for instructors and for coaches. However, the home nation organisations seem to be happy to squabble over the scraps, leading to the impression that the whole of UK ski instruction is run by a bunch of amateurs.
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rob@rar, ditto
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, You may see the BASI coaching pathway as an improvement, I don't.
It has saved me money though, I just won't do any more courses now.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It's all very well going down the CSIA route, until it's time to do a refresher. If Andorra isn't available, it's off to Canada to do one. I know an instructor who did NZ qualification while on a world trip, unless he goes back he can't renew. Just a point to consider when deciding which route to go.
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Poster: A snowHead
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CSIA sounds a good system (although ISIA accreditation no longer there if that's relevant), but I know a couple of CSIA-qualified coaches at the neighbouring club and they feel quite abandoned now. Essentially no membership benefits/support if you're not in Canada.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rjs wrote: |
rob@rar, You may see the BASI coaching pathway as an improvement, I don't.
It has saved me money though, I just won't do any more courses now. |
I see it as a coherent pathway from an organisation which is best placed to develop and represent the interests of UK instructors and coaches. I don't know anything about the content of the coaching qualifications offered by the home nation organisations, although as BASI's is based on the Canadian model I think it has a reasonable pedigree, and will evolve to become more suitable for the UK scene. In what way do you you think BASI's coaching pathway is not as good as the home nations' offerings?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| I know a couple of CSIA-qualified coaches at the neighbouring club and they feel quite abandoned now. Essentially no membership benefits/support if you're not in Canada. |
That's why BASI no longer offers dual accreditation for its coaching courses. The only contact BASI/CSCF members got from Canada was the invoice for annual membership fees.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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BASI's coaching pathway was also developed in partnership with SSGB I believe?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| In what way do you you think BASI's coaching pathway is not as good as the home nations' offerings? |
An concern for me is that there appears to an assumption that "Coaching" is only linked to competition. The BASI offering seems to say that Racers get coached, while recreations skiers receive "Instruction". The Home Nations offering was always a 'coaching scheme' to support both racers and recreational skiers.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, The SSS courses are (were ? all recent courses have been cancelled due to lack of numbers) based on the Canadian model but modified to match what actually happens in our clubs. APC1 contains enough on course setting and technical skills for people to be useful by themselves, not just as assistants to more senior coaches.
Maybe it is a good idea for all clubs to be run by L3 coaches who have passed the Eurotest or better still are exempt because of their FIS points but I don't see where we are going to find them out of the pool of people who currently have the spare time to coach in clubs.
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rjs, so are you saying BASI's entry level coaching courses (L1 and L2?) aren't that useful because they don't include a course setting element, but that L3 is too tough because of the Eurotest requirement?
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rjs, I think you have a point there. Head coach of our club would never pass the Eurotest, I have BASI L2 Coach but at the moment could never be more than an assistant coach as I don't have the racing and course setting experience. To be honest though I don't think a course setting module is really that much use, it's experience that counts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I thought L2 did include course-setting? But as beanie1 says, course setting is much a matter of experience. I've never been on a course-setting course but do quite a bit of it for our club. To start out it was all a bit haphazard, but now I'm getting reasonable at judging how much offset and vertical drop to put in to achieve what I want. Knowledge all comes from getting it wrong and remembering what it felt like when you came up with that too sudden rhythm change etc.. That experience is all on plastic though, as what are reasonable offsts/drops on snow is quite different.
beanie1, sure Andy would never pass Eurotest, but I would have thought it would be a breeze for Beano and Pete?
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| I thought L2 did include course-setting? |
I think it does. I'm sure that Ross mentioned that a course setting module was being developed by BASI.
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FAQ
