 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jonty, I saw that today, property prices in Auris would benefit but the links from ADH & back will have to be improved to make it worthwhile.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fairly old news. And the DAL has been up for sale since the beginning of last winter.
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The map doesn't even include Auris, let alone the site of the lift. Not sure where in LDA the Mont de la Lens is (?)
Is there a map of where the lift will go? must be an extremely long one (or two?).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski, thanks.
Quite a long drive between though, so for the visitors it would surely be better, if not for locals. (?)
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snowball, I should think it will take almost as long if not as long to get there by the link - you would deffo need a piste down either side, but that would be mega-expensive and bad for the environment WRT the chemicals necessary in the cannons ......
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Once at Auris you still need to get up to Signal d'Homme then down to the scare chair to get into the main ADH area. It doesn't sound very practical to me.
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They would have to open the lifts for the connection a lot earlier than others for it to be worthwhile otherwise it looks like you'd spend the first and last 50 minutes of your skiing time sitting in a gondola. If they did open the connexion, say by 08:30, and it was a series of nice fast gondolas, like the plattiers replacement in meribel which goes up the hill at a frightening speed, then you would have a very hard to beat ski area. Especially if staying in les deux alpes you would have the off piste of la grave, the park and intermediate/begginner terrain on the glacier of 2 alpes and the long reds and blacks of alpe d'huez, each of which are world class on their specialities.
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Not that far to drive from Mont de Lans to Auris so other than bragging can't see the point. Might be an interesting challenge to try to ski from Vaujany, via Pic Blanc, have a beer at the Castillan in La Grave and get back however, otherwise not very likely you'd try to ski both areas in the same day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The times we drove from La Grave it was often to Auris. Seemed quite a long drive to me. even to there. I'd certainly prefer to ski - I'd imagine it would open up more off piste, too. (Obviously I'd love it if there wasn't a piste but that would make no economic sense, I imagine). What are the slopes like it would open up? Have you skinned over there, easiski?
The environmental argument is a facet I can't comment on - would it really need cannons and do they have to use chemicals? The cannons at Hemel I gather don't introduce any chemicals into the snow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ski from Vaujany, via Pic Blanc, have a beer at the Castillan in La Grave
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Er, what? You're proposing to get this alleged link to 2Alpes, then trek across the top to La Grave, and then go all the way back again by the same route? I thought you were on a ski trip, not a standing-in-telecabines-all-day holiday.
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Lizzard, I don't think fatbob, was proposing to do it every day. Highly unlikely that this link will happen imv.
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You know it makes sense.
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can't see the point of this other than saving some traffic driving up to LDA (and maybe ADH, although if you were coming from Grenoble, why you would drive all the way to Le Freney rather than access from Oz or Vaujany is beyond me)
wouldn't make much difference to ADH off-piste; might be useful for some LDA routes (eg Cuculet)
edit - saying that, it would make my idea of a traverse all the way from La Grave to Chamonix using ski lifts and minimal cars/skinning a bit easier
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So DAL are planning on selling L2A and *also* building a multi million pound new lift ?
That doesnt make sense - sounds to me like a stratigical timed press release...
Perhaps to increase the value of their ski station prior to sale ?
Personally I am very cynical - especially in this case where the cost would be huge for little pratical benefit.
There is a big difference between releasing plans to build a lift - and actually getting permisson and digging the foundations.
> traverse all the way from La Grave to Chamonix
I met a Swedish couple who did this.
Apparently a great ski tour!
And a nice alternative to the Haute Route.
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowball, I'm not sure of the altitude of Freney, but it's too low to hold snow for much of the winter. Therefore cannons would have to be used to keep the pistes open. We don't use chemicals AFAIK in the village, but to make snow at warmer temps I understood it was necessary. Also, those fields are grazed and planted.
Haggis_Trap, The DAL has apparently been for sale for a while for the right offer, so yes or no .... this link has been talked about for ages and various schemes have been mooted and rejected for various reasons. I really can't see the point myself.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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ski from Vaujany, via Pic Blanc, have a beer at the Castillan in La Grave
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Er, what? You're proposing to get this alleged link to 2Alpes, then trek across the top to La Grave, and then go all the way back again by the same route? I thought you were on a ski trip, not a standing-in-telecabines-all-day holiday. |
A run down the Grand Sablat, Top to bottom at La Grave, Glacier down to Mont de Lans and an off piste run down to Vaujany seems a fair day's skiing for a mere mortal?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I wish they'd replace the Bons chair instead. Some nice skiing down there although still easy enough to walk/ski back to mont de lans. I don't understand the reasoning behind scrapping it. If ever there was somewhere that needed some trees for bad vis it is LDA.
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scottishskier, Yesh - lots of pressure from the schools too - Bl**dy DAL - it's a lot of peoples' favourite run.  Money would be far better spent replacing both that and the Mont de Lans chairs IMO. Linking is just a gimmick if it can't be done naturally - look at the Vanoise Express.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| easiski wrote: |
| snowball, I'm not sure of the altitude of Freney, but it's too low to hold snow for much of the winter. |
or any of the winter on the south facing slopes below the Signal de l'homme to be honest. Most of the valley on that side has cliff bands and is unskiable even if it had snow. Freney is at 980 meters, the snow hangs around in the shaded areas but not elsewhere.
The additives used in snowmaking are nucleates (snomax, an inert bacteria) which supposedly has zero effect on the environment. However France has a monitorium on the use of any additives. That doesn't mean that snowmaking doesn't have an effect on the environment, as does skiing, farming etc.
You can view this kind of project as a form of public transport if you wish, but gondolas are notoriously expensive to maintain and I can't see it being worthwhile. As is said above Freney isn't a natural gatewayto AdH even if it makes sense for LDA to some extent. Last I heard of this project was 2005 when it seemed to have been abandonned. The project would need a UTN, a complex planning process.
Some info:
The Alpe d'Huez town hall tells me that the SATA is working on the Oz side of the domain to improve pistes there due to a fatal accident in February and they are putting in a reservoir for snowmaking at the Marmottes. That's what has been oked for 2009.
They told me that the project to equip the Sarenne with snowmaking (cost 7 million over 3 years) was extremely complex to negociate as the reservoir was on Freney's territory and there were big questions as to whether it was worthwhile (remember this is a south facing piste but in a valley so keeps snow better and also substantially above 2000 meters). They also tell me the town hall is deeply in debt and is putting a block on any work that will involve further costs without a good return.
That doesn't mean that the SATA and DAL don't have new plans as the article says.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 8-07-09 17:33; edited 1 time in total
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for good measure an article from 2006 which discusses the Freney link
http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/0615-alpe-huez-deux-alpes-cable-car-link/
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So where does this leave the “Oisans Express” link... ?
The SATA (Société d’Aménagement Touristique de l’Alpe d’Huez) and DAL (Deux-Alpes Loisirs) still want to improve links between the resorts. There is already a joint lift-pass with a direct shuttle bus twice a week but it is thought that any new lift will take a route from the center of Auris via Freney. |
the Mayor of le Freney, Christian Pichoud, was re-elected this spring on a platform of pushing the ADH/LDA link. The most serious part of the plan is an extension of the Mont de Lans chair to le Freney - about 1km. Given the lack of snow lower down this may be in the form of a gondola lift rather than a chair for the whole length with a station at Mont de Lans. It seems fairly logical although not sure where they will get the funding given the DAL's lack of investment over recent years. The DAL is upgrading the Mont de Lans sector this year (lizzard/easiski can probably confirm/tell us more)
No idea where they are with the ADH link. The CdA is eying the DAL.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski, not a surprise. The auberge in Clavans le bas, incidentally, delightful and a very good place for lunch.
At the risk of seeming selfish anything that makes it easier to get out of the bottom of that valley would be a disaster for the quality of skiing in AdH. They would inevitably stick a piste down somewhere that really doesn't need it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gorilla, Yes - for sure - bang goes the quiet off piste down the back! That pub is well known to be particularly good for lunch AIUI. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
A run down the Grand Sablat, Top to bottom at La Grave, Glacier down to Mont de Lans and an off piste run down to Vaujany seems a fair day's skiing for a mere mortal?
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No, it's a load of off-piste skiing beyond the reach of the average holidaymaker, and therefore the volume of people doing it would hardly justify the investment.
You can stop showing off now.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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A run down the Grand Sablat, Top to bottom at La Grave, Glacier down to Mont de Lans and an off piste run down to Vaujany seems a fair day's skiing for a mere mortal?
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No, it's a load of off-piste skiing beyond the reach of the average holidaymaker, and therefore the volume of people doing it would hardly justify the investment.
You can stop showing off now. |
This was simply an example to counter the suggestion that there would be too much time spend commuting rather than skiing in the day to make it worthwhile. All the above vertical can be covered on piste except for La Grave , which is often packed down and manageable anyway to a confident and competent skier without being an off piste genius. Clearly the link is a bit of a folly as no-one is crying out to be able to do this. I wasn't aware that we had to refer to the average holidaymaker in commenting on the art of the possible.
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You know it makes sense.
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edit - saying that, it would make my idea of a traverse all the way from La Grave to Chamonix using ski lifts and minimal cars/skinning a bit easier
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I think the LG guides office offers this. In fact I'm sure they do as their brochure was the only reading matter in the car other than discarded pizza boxes for large parts of the winter. Not saying you would want to go with them but it might be interesting to know the route.
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No, it's a load of off-piste skiing beyond the reach of the average holidaymaker, and therefore the volume of people doing it would hardly justify the investment.
You can stop showing off now.
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Meeeeeeeoooooooooowwwwwwwwwww
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I wasn't aware that we had to refer to the average holidaymaker in commenting on the art of the possible.
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You do if you're looking at what's economically viable, which I imagine is something which features prominently in the considerations of both lift companies.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno, La Ros is a super little place - it's just that they have red runs that aren't as steep as the Cretes! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arno, La Ros is a super little place - it's just that they have red runs that aren't as steep as the Cretes!
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Day 5 - get to Courmayeur somehow - most logical way looks like using L* R*s/La Thuile lift system - I have some sort of inner resistance to that though
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Is there a way through using the St Foy lift system to gain height and then dropping down into Italy slightly further away from La Thuile? It would mean missing out on the world's best skiing but I'm sure you would bear the disappointment like a man.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arno, that's a long ride from St Sorlin d'Arves to Orelle. Man up, lose the AdH section and skin up from La Grave via the Lac du Goleon to somewhere between the Aiguille d'Argentiere and the Pointe Salvador. Ski down into Les Verneys, Valloire system over to Valmenier then there's probably a route can take you pretty close to Orelle if there's enough snow.
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gorilla, Sideshow_Bob, both those would involve a lot of skinning which is fine, but not what I had in mind when plotting that route 
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Arno, How about going further west in Les Sybelles, taxi to St Francois-Longchamp then work back east to BSM.
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rjs, am I right in thinking you can head off the back from St F-L/Valmorel and join the 3V system? Is that a decent ski?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JT, that is a danger - I'd want to get at least one classic descent per day (subject to conditions) which my itinerary would achieve except the putative L* R*S/La Tuile day!
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