 Poster: A snowHead
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I reckon easyJet works out cheapest most of the time. I love them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| bucking bronco wrote: |
As for M O'Leary and Ryanair, it surprises me that they have any repeat customers. The only people who fly with them are first timers and those with no choice. |
And those who have flown with them before, but don't expect a luxury service.
I suspect that few of the people who slate them so hard have actually ever flown with them. They get repeat custom because the do exactly what they claim to do.
I have used them before, and IF they have a suitable flight (i.e. from where I want, to where I want, on a trip where I don't need more than 15Kg luggage, and they are cheapest), then I will have no hesitation in using them again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulio, No.
They don't.
Out of 30 return trips London-Geneva in 2006 BA was cheapest every time. In fact, BA Club class was cheaper than Easyjet on one trip.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Jerry, I qualified the statement. And I stand by it. For the average skier, etc. And by better experience I mean including total cost of ownership, servicing, etc. Plus, if you use a decent shop you'll have a whole range of kit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The experience of Easyjet or Ryanair is infinitely better than driving to Heathrow. Heathrow is gash and loses out to regional airports in every respect apart from the scale of routes and frequency
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I wouldn't even consider driving to Heathrow. For me, it's 15 mins on the Heathrow Express, and a short tube or taxi to Paddington (depending on luggage. Gatwick is a 30 min train direct from London Bridge which is 5 mins away.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| one 15Kg bag (which is all most short haul airlines allow now). |
Not my experience...any other airlines I fly with seems to allow at least 20kg...
And those 5kg make a hell of a difference, especially on ski trips..
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Michael simply does not care, at all, not one little bit!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Au contraire, barry, he cares for his shareholders. I've said it before, he's well on the way to doing a Gerald.
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beanie1, for most people: Regional airpots - NEAR, Heathrow - FAR AWAY
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Frosty the Snowman, BA fly from regional airports though? When we lived in Manchester we used to fly BA direct to various short haul destinations.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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beanie1, BA only fly to Heathrow from up here.
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I don't think there is a best airline to use for skiing, it depends where you are, where you are going, when you are going and what you are taking. Last winter I used Easyjet Gatwick to Geneva, BA Gatwick to Zurich and one trip by car. Next winter I've currently planned Easyjet Luton to Geneva and Gatwick to Zurich also one more car trip. I haven't used Ryanair for a ski trip since I went to Bergamo with them in 2007, that was very cheap due to free ski carriage, but not very pleasant. I'd use them again though to the right place at the right price.
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You know it makes sense.
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Helen Beaumont, bad luck then, does that mean you're stuck with Ryanair?!
One of the main reasons I like living in the SE - weekend breaks are so much more accessible than when we lived in Manchester. Even though there were direct flights from Manchester, the timing of them almost all meant taking a day or half day off work, which I don't like to do. From London there are loads of flight options around 7 / 8pm on a Friday evening.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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beanie1, Easyjet fly to Geneva,and someone else to Chambery . Ryanair don't fly to any ski destinations from here,unless you count Barcelona, although they used to fly to Bergamo. Doesn't affect us too much, as we go for 2 weeks and drive to France.
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Poster: A snowHead
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beanie1, Outside of London BA flies from Manchester to Hanover, Dussledorf, Frankfurt, Paris and Milan. The same from Birmingham with the addition of Stuttgart. If I was in the fashion or financial world then that would ber great. Not much use to when skiing though.
Heathrow is 255 miles, and Gatwick 30 miles more. Mr O'Leary is providing the FtS family with a much better service than the other little leprechaun, Mr Walsh. No food is better than no route.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Frosty the Snowman, they must have reduced their schedule then - they used to fly to ski destinations such as Genevea in the winter, and Rome in the summer (where my parents live!) when I lived there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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[quote="andyph"]Au contraire, barry, he cares for his shareholders. I've said it before, he's well on the way to doing a Gerald.[/quote
look at his track record and history of interviews and quotes, he simply doesnt care what anyone thinks about what he does - he'll continue to do whatever he like, and it works quite well for him too
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm not really of the opinion that you can care for your shareholders without caring about customer service, in any type of business it's not a long term strategy. That's not to say you have to offer luxury though. You can offer a budget service with customre service, surely?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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beanie1, They sold that part of the business to FlyBe...who I find VERY expensive and a similar to Ryanair in attitude
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ah FlyBe, - flymaybe we call them in our company! they've improved recently though it has to be said
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I think Ryanair are no different from other airlines if you are travelling within Europe. For example, BMI now charge economy passengers for food and drink as do other European airlines. A lot of time the only difference is an allocated seat and a sandwich (which is horrible most of the time anyway). Ryanair are not perfect (far from it) but they have allowed people to travel cheaply and very well (I went away skiing for a week flying with them outward and return and it was cheap even with the baggage charges). I have used them many times. As long as you adhere to their rules and regulations with regards to weight allowance, being on time, etc, they are just a mode of transport. I wouldn't pay a lot of money to fly with them though.
I do think they will eventually go down the pan as people are getting a bit fed up of O'Leary and the way he does things. He is a very shrewd businessman but he is his own worse enemy.
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jb1970, no ryanair's laden with shedloads of cash. They'll keep prices apparently low, even to the extent of making a loss, just to help other airlines into receivership.
BMI, Flybe, etc. are all in the "no frills" bracket, and hence all charge for food/drink.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| bucking bronco wrote: |
Roga
The 23kg limit was brought in for 2 reasons, health and safety for the loaders and the cost of carrying extra weight (fuel). |
That's very nice but as I said above I've never had that sort of hassle with either Easyjet or Virgin who seem to have a bit of flexibility when it comes to being marginally over an arbitrary limit (nor on any package holiday flights come to think of it). What I'm saying is I don't give a 'smiley' what the reasons are, if their competitors do it differently, and IMHO better, I'd give their competitors the kudos on that particular point. Furthermore if it was a toss up in terms of price and ease of getting to the airport I'd choose say Easyjet over BA on the basis of that issue and when it comes transatlantic I'd choose Virgin over BA period ... done BA once and never again, never again!
Oh and as for UK H&S I think most people are fed up enough with it's excesses to happily tell it to go 'smiley' off, so I frankly don't care if they use that as an excuse!
| Quote: |
| The check in staff who made you repack probably thought they were doing you a favour since if your bag weighs more than 23kg the charge is £25 - if you didn't want to rearrange your luggage then you could have asked to pay this. |
Funny, that's precisely what the BA woman at check in said the moment I mentioned Virgin favourably - you don't work for BA do you? 
Flexibility is the thing and if BA think someone sitting at a terminal mouthing "computer says..." like a character from Little Britain is good customer service then bully for them, I certainly don't!
Having said all that I'm still sure BA is better than Ryanair ... although that's not exactly setting them a terribly high standard to beat!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Roga
Hear you loud and clear and totally agree with you, I was just trying to guess as to why the check in agent did what they did - not knowing the check in system I'd hope that you could override the system to let a bag through. That said, check in staff might be told to apply rules vigourously to generate revenue - BA is in serious danger of not being in business by this time next year. Honestly, I just don't know the reasons of why you were treated like you were over, as you say, a discrepancy of less than 0.5kg!
One of the problems with the service industry is that customers can make a judgement on a whole company based on the actions of one employee, which were totally inappropriate. Faced with a similar situation again then I'd suggest asking to see her manager, if she refused then ask for her name and staff number and put a complaint in - I for one would like to see this person educated or dismissed.
WRT reasons for 23kg limit, H&S and security is a pain in the rear, again agree with you - pilots and cabin crew have to comply with some ridiculous rules. Prime example, when pilots go through security they're subject to exactly the same rules as everyone else; that means that they can't carry a multitool or even a pair of nail scissors through lest they use them to take over the aircraft (  ) bizarrely this is the case even though they have access to an axe and jemmy on the flight deck!
As for you've never had a bad customer experience with Virgin or Easyjet, I'm genuinely happy for you but being a gambling man I'd wager my house that it won't last - not because of the companies themselves (I have good friends who work for both) but the nature of industry and customer's expectations. Expectations that want to pay rock bottom fares and receive first class service.
Cheers
BB
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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bucking bronco, I don't quite understand the H&S rule re 23kg bags - because the limit is 32 kgs. Above this they simply won't take the bag as hold luggage, it has to go as freight. So I don't know where the 23kgs limit comes in?
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You know it makes sense.
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And of course, that bright label costs £35, hence the "£25 charge!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Unfortunately there is a cost involved too - the additional cost of fuel for a 10 hour flight for a 32kg bag over 23kg bag is approx £12, the label probably £1 etc etc.
The loaders, if they suspect a bag is over 23kg, weigh it, find it is >23kg and it hasn't been tagged with a "heavy" label are "at liberty" not to load the bag (I kid you not).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Fair enough. Doesn't explain why they charge £25 for 0.5kgs extra though! Why not a certain amount per kg, as they used to?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think they call it "stripping out complexity". Seriously though dunno. I think that it's outrageous that you should pay any extra if your group is within it's overall weight limit, but then again the loaders may think it's outrageous to lift "heavy" bags 
Anyway, back to Ryanair...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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under a new name, Nah, I like taking my own skis, but I will accept your assessment of me as a more than average skier
All getting a bit London-centric guys. NOT driving to Heathrow would cost me about 260 quid return, a lot more (probably) than the flight.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
One of the problems with the service industry is that customers can make a judgement on a whole company based on the actions of one employee, which were totally inappropriate. Faced with a similar situation again then I'd suggest asking to see her manager, if she refused then ask for her name and staff number and put a complaint in - I for one would like to see this person educated or dismissed.
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Totally agree. Your always going to run into some jobsworth in every company. When I flew flybe to Geneva at xmas I got stung with excess baggage to the tune of £80, on the way back though they didn't even mention it. I've never had any problem with BA though, and would rather use them over anyone else short haul at least.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bucking bronco, apologies if my last post was a little tetchy - appreciate your patience with me 
| bucking bronco wrote: |
Hear you loud and clear and totally agree with you, I was just trying to guess as to why the check in agent did what they did - not knowing the check in system I'd hope that you could override the system to let a bag through. That said, check in staff might be told to apply rules vigourously to generate revenue - BA is in serious danger of not being in business by this time next year. Honestly, I just don't know the reasons of why you were treated like you were over, as you say, a discrepancy of less than 0.5kg!
One of the problems with the service industry is that customers can make a judgement on a whole company based on the actions of one employee, which were totally inappropriate. Faced with a similar situation again then I'd suggest asking to see her manager, if she refused then ask for her name and staff number and put a complaint in - I for one would like to see this person educated or dismissed. |
Such a hassle when frankly they should be aware of customer service enough to show a little flexibility where necessary IMHO.
The end result is this, me moaning on numerous times online (I told her I would at the time  ) and probably making a few other people think twice before using them - they really don't win but rather loose as a result.
| Quote: |
| WRT reasons for 23kg limit, H&S and security is a pain in the rear, again agree with you - pilots and cabin crew have to comply with some ridiculous rules. Prime example, when pilots go through security they're subject to exactly the same rules as everyone else; that means that they can't carry a multitool or even a pair of nail scissors through lest they use them to take over the aircraft ( ) bizarrely this is the case even though they have access to an axe and jemmy on the flight deck! |
Agreed, crazy!
| Quote: |
| As for you've never had a bad customer experience with Virgin or Easyjet, I'm genuinely happy for you but being a gambling man I'd wager my house that it won't last - not because of the companies themselves (I have good friends who work for both) but the nature of industry and customer's expectations. Expectations that want to pay rock bottom fares and receive first class service. |
I see your point but I have actually had one case of hassle with Easyjet, an officious little jobsworth at Bristol Airport, who charged me excess (wasn't charged coming the other way) but on reflection they were right according to their rules and I was wrong (was well over) so I have nothing to complain about apart from his officiousness and attitude but that's one member of staff. Whereas I feel my annoyance at BA is fair given it seems to be down to official company policy and an inflexible system and I was overall well within my total baggage allowance and only a fraction above on this one bag.
As for Virgin I've found them beyond excellent every time I've travelled transatlantic, when using BA to LA a year ago I found the staff fine, if a little ragged, but the aircraft was old and not well maintained (slightly grubbby), and various things like the in-flight entertainment wasn't working terribly well and the choice didn't seem as good as Virgin. I'd heard all this before from friends too but I booked late and had to use BA rather than Virgin but in future I'll book early if possible and it'll be Virgin every time unless there's a major price difference (to the tune of £100+).
| bucking bronco wrote: |
Unfortunately there is a cost involved too - the additional cost of fuel for a 10 hour flight for a 32kg bag over 23kg bag is approx £12, the label probably £1 etc etc.
The loaders, if they suspect a bag is over 23kg, weigh it, find it is >23kg and it hasn't been tagged with a "heavy" label are "at liberty" not to load the bag (I kid you not). |
Yes but they would have charged me excess when I was well within my overall limit, there's no extra cost there just BA trying to arbitrarily grab some money off customers! The lesson I've learnt with BA is don't minimise the number of bags you carry maximise the number so you can spread the weight across them all as long as you stay within your overall weight limit - my mistake was try to keep to a low number of bags but slightly overweight one of them whilst still staying well within my overall weight limit. Seems a bit crazy to be honest but they've created a stupid inflexible rule IMHO.
Oh, can I just refer back to one thing I didn't comment on in your original reply to me bucking bronco, the way staff are treated - this comes as no surprise to me and seems to be part of the odious O'Leary's general attitude to anyone who isn't as rich, ruthless (or greedy) as he is. Frankly that alone is likely to make me very loathe to go anywhere near Ryanair!
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I must have got something wrong here because in the last year I have taken 5 people from Stansted to Grenoble fo 5 pence, 4 people Liverpool to Grenoble for £10, 3 people Grenoble to East Midlands for £7-50 and I could go on and on. All with Ryanair. Accepted we had hand luggage only but those were the total fares incuding taxes etc. Every flight was on time or early and none of them crashed, which is good enough for me. The chances of me taking 3 children skiing 20 years ago when the fat monopolies such as BA, or whatever they were called then, set the fares to the level they needed, were probably zero. Now, by being flexible and enduring the "horrors of Ryanair" for a whole 1 hour and 15 minutes I can do it, and I am eternally thankful to the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet for making it possible. BA did not. As long there is plenty of competition to prevent Ryanair or Easyjet getting any sort of monopoly, and safety is still regulated to the levels we have now or higher I do not understand what all the moaning is about. There are plenty of ways to play the system and minimise the baggage charges etc. Just do it and get skiing. 
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plenty of choice so pay your money n take one flying to europe .. virgin long haul is far better than b.a. unless your turning left on the way onto the plane in which case b.a. still shades it
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skitow, quite. Ryanair offers what it offers, take it or leave it. If another airline suits better (as it almost always does, for me), use it. I am somewhat irritated by some of the 'low cost' carriers when I waste a lot of time chasing a headline fare to find that for what I want, for example taking hold luggage, the price is uncompetitive with other airlines, such as BA, but that's the effect of having different airlines offering different services.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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andy, or simply purchase a piece of France/Austria/Italy and watch the piece of land appreciate!! 
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FAQ
off."
