 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
I am doing my A levels in the UK. One of these is product desigh (Technology), and for this A level I am going to design and make an attachment that will clip/attach to your ski boot to help you walk through the resort in your ski boots.
I am currently in the stage of researching for my product.
Therefore please can you give comments on what you feel about this idea that i could include in my pre design research to give me inspiration to design a product.
Thank you very much
Tom
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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as part of your research, google "cat tracks" 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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willmott1992, Welcome to snowheads  I think you'll find such devices already exist, for example. Do you have to have a unique design?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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thankyou for that, i am aiming to make my attachments add grip but also provide a way of making it easier and more comfortable to walk.
I was thinking along the lines of an arched shape on the bottom of the sole to help you walk.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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willmott1992, Probably worth searching this site also. I've not used them myself but I seem to remember comments about them being awkward. If yours is better I guess you have a chance.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Also think about how easy it is to put on and to take off your new gadget. Cat-tracks are good but I find them hard to put onto a boot when I am wearing it.
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Would be nice to have something that helps prevent 'skier's walk' - that heel / toe rocking motion..
Super important though to ensure whatever you come up with is easy to carry when you go skiing....for example I have no idea what you are meant to do with this when you're on the slopes..and besides that's what you're shoulder is for..
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willmott1992, the arced shape has been done, I will try and find the link but maybe someone else remembers the name of it or something?! I just thought they looked ridiculous and unless I was wearing a backpack I wouldn't have anywhere to store them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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willmott1992, I use cat tracks when not in a ski-in/ski-out location, but they have several disadvantages. OK, they are easy to put on in the morning before I put my boots on, but I am not so young now and stretching down to take them off is inconvenient, while putting them on again at the end of the day is a major struggle. So you need to have something that is easy to put on and take off. Second, as my cat tracks age, the material becomes less resilient (i.e., less elastic) so they don't grip the boots as well as they used to and occasionally fall off (always where the surface is steep and icy!). So I need something that doesn't fall off when I use it during the second season Finally, yes cat tracks fold and can be put in a pocket, but they are often wet and snowy and I get a cold damp pocket. Also I can't use that pocket for other things that might be useful during the day, such as a camera. So I need something that folds away to nothing. I suppose I could get around this by wearing a rucksack more regularly, but I avoid this where possible because soon or later it is going to get caught in a lift.
Yes, it would be nice to have something better, but designing that something better is quite a challenge.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'd prefer something that makes an alpine ISO sole safer in a general mountain hiking/scrambling context which has a real safety application and direct market e.g. a collapsible lightweight crampon. The in resort gaper market may be larger but heavily crowded with similar products.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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fatbob, lange have done that to an extent with the vibram sole units on the banshee series of boots
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I have some cat tracks but the reason I don't use them is that I struggle to get them on and off.
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You know it makes sense.
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Maybe you could modify a pair of cat tracks so they could be ratcheted closed and easily opened by a similar mechanism to that on a cycling shoe.
For some pics see
http://www.bikerumor.com/2008/10/05/interbike-2008-diadora-shoes/
To make walking easier some ski boots have a setting which allows more flex at the ankle in walk mode. It tends not to be found on the stffer and higher end boots as far as I know and many regard it as a gimick.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yeah, the general consensus is that cat tracks are great unless you want to put them on your boots and then walk somewhere. I would only use them if I got into racing, which I won't.
The main problem cat tracks revolves around the fact that things that need to stretch in order to fit suck when used in the cold. Either they're a pain to fit or they break or both. Anything that gets round this will need to come in an unfeasible number of different sizes or, alternatively strap on to the boot like a crampon. Were I on TGR right now someone would point out that I had just written "strap on" and given that this guy is doing his A levels I had better stop right there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| CEM wrote: |
| fatbob, lange have done that to an extent with the vibram sole units on the banshee series of boots |
Indeed and is a feature of lines like Garmont & Black Diamond but not yet a real feature of mass market boots.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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willmott1992, dude, dont be discussing your design on a public forum unless you're protected, before you know it some d*ckhead will have made and be offering your product! Good luck
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I like the quick release ratchet type idea of the cat-track.... that would improve the design but make it more clunnky to carry!
Personally I see the whole market as a gimmick. I have good and well fitted boots.... I can wear them for hours and hours and walk about as much as i like with no problems... just get used to it.
However, as the rental market is so strong then a lot of people don't get the 'luxury' of their own boot for comfort. But would a device improve the comfort? I doubt it; just grip.
I can't see the advantage of an archway either as IMO the missing flex to walk is in the ball of the foot rather than the archway.
Good luck!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Right, here comes my essay:
Thanks for all of the great feedback people.
Regards to putting the product on and off; in my next stage of the coursework, the design and development stage i will come up with some ideas, however in this stage i will be looking at ways of attaching any from of shoe to an accessory (sorry, i'm terrible at spellng  ). Thankyou RPF for the SPD type bike shoes, i have been looking at those and struggling to see how they actualy work.
I will have a look at these cat track things and include them in my research, they do look a bit terrible to me. I think how the user will carry/store my product during the day is going to be the biggest issue of this design  i have noticed though that newer lift stations now have lockers? And also Flangesax, that is a good comment about boots and the rental market, they still are very basic boots, even with the large market. However, many of the ski hire places are near the lift stations, so maybe these could be hired and left there during the day?
I will make sure that the product i come up with will be much easier than the cattracks to get on and off, cause i know how horrible it is fiddling with ski boots is in the cold.
and gorilla im not that young and naiive
Barry, thanks for your comment, i have thought of maybe patenting this idea, i doubt it would become too big though and this great feedback from everybody is more important i think so that i can get an A
I think i have covered everything. Thankyou so much everyone, you don't know how greatfull i am, please keep up with the great comments, your are really helping so much 
Thanks again
Tom
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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"Grateful" for the thanks Tom as it is traditional on sh's to criticiize poeple for their spelling n'grammer innit 
Let us know how it works out & post up pics. There are some dubious industry types around who may have an interest in encouraging smart young design talent but they won't do your coursework for you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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w.r.t. cat tracks, their value (IMHO) depends largely on the ski boots you use. My Salomon Pro Model SC boots have smooth plastic soles (no rubber heel pads) and are lethal when walking on hard packed snow or ice. I've posted before that getting the cat tracks on and off can be a bit of a pain but not as much a pain as going @rse over t1t
If I had boots with the more usual heel pieces I probably wouldn't bother with them but until then (no time soon), they continue to be indispensable for me.
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jtr, no one with any sort of custom grind job on their sole plates will be walking around without some sort of protection device.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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probly (that's how i say it!) too late to bother about protection at this stage (where have i heard that before  ), unless you delete all your posts! So dont worry about it. As said above though, might be worth checking any existing prior-art (as any of your ideas above now are if they werent already!) to see if you've been beaten to the punch - if however your teachers dont bother with that kind of thing then have at it!
regardless, good luck and fair dues for plumping for something of interest and (I daresay!) use.
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I find cat tracks absolutely useless. My boots seem to be at the upper end of the size range of the smaller ones, and are thus really hard work to put on. And that's in a warm room without wearing the boots. I've never tried, but I have a feeling trying to do it in a lift/at the bottom of a piste while wearing the boots in the freezing cold would be impossible.
Although I doubt I'd bother with anything even if it was easier to use. I don't usually ski with a bag and it'd just be an extra thing to carry around.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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mark_s, I have exactly the same problem. I guess they might work better if there was a size specifically fo each boot sole length.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My cat tracks are impossible to put on. I even admit I had moaned about hubby buying himself some, and not getting me any. Once I had some, I couldn't put them on the sole of the boot without falling over in the process, much to the amusement of hubby and sons. As I don't have far to walk at the end of the day, I've stopped using them.
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An idea springs to mind ~with little thought ~ would an oversock made of the material used in car tyre socks work on boots?
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You know it makes sense.
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willmott1992,
Just to clarify how the ratchet works on the cycling shoes. Look at the top buckle on the cycling shoe pics pic 3 is the best as it shows this feature been used. The strap has teeth on it. When inserted into the buckle the lever is used to tighten the buckle one click at a time. It is very easy to adjust and with a press of a button, it releases.
If this type of mechanism was put on the side of cat tracks it could be used to cinch them closed so they could easily be put on and removed from a range of boot sizes.
On the other side just have a fixed strap.
So you should be able to put it on the boot sole close it up with no fight and walk away.
This wont add much size to the existing cat tracks
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To see if the idea has any basis you could modify the cat track with a simpler fastening on the sides first
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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willmott1992, I have never used anything on my boots, mainly, as mentioned above, because it would just be something else to lug around the mountain. Even if I used a bag I would want to keep it down to minimum. And sounds like the ones available now are a pain to get on/off.
Like Boredsurfing's idea though......
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Poster: A snowHead
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our chum, who is a notorious pfaffer got cat tracks...which increased his pfaffing time considerably...
Can't see the point really, unless you are someone who is in a resort where there is a LOT of walking around.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| I have some cat tracks but the reason I don't use them is that I struggle to get them on and off. |
Same here. I can't stand the damn things.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think the best solution is just to practice walking in ski boots until you get the hang of it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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paulio, irrelevant solution if one has had the boot soles custom ground.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you've done that, simply remove the soles from another spare pare of ski boots (with a little saw) and super glue them on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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but paulio, that's already been done.
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| paulio wrote: |
| If you've done that, simply remove the soles from another spare pare of ski boots (with a little saw) and super glue them on. |
How do you get em in the bindings then 
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| flangesax wrote: |
I like the quick release ratchet type idea of the cat-track.... that would improve the design but make it more clunnky to carry!
Personally I see the whole market as a gimmick. I have good and well fitted boots.... I can wear them for hours and hours and walk about as much as i like with no problems... just get used to it.
However, as the rental market is so strong then a lot of people don't get the 'luxury' of their own boot for comfort. But would a device improve the comfort? I doubt it; just grip.
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Cat tracks aren't supposed to improve comfort.
They serve two purposes - 1 to increase grip, and 2 to reduce wear on the heel-piece of the boot from walking in them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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alex_heney, isn't it more the toe piece? I think the heel piece can often be replaced anyway.
The toes are wearing pretty well on mine - can't see them ewaring out before i want to replace the boots anyway. And that's despite lots of time spent walking the snowless streets of Wengen!
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beanie1, any top end boot and many from mid level up have no replacable bits on them (gives better transmission of pressure ) i guess it depends on which resort you spend your time walking around as to how quickly they wear out
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FAQ
's and good luck, this is something which has been tried several times, besides the cat tracks which have been mentioned there are numerous cheap alternatives all of which fail to some extent or another....the shaped rocker to go under the sole is an idea which could be interesting BUT as has been said where do you store these things when you are skiing...shatever it does it needs to be compact, light and work well before people will even consider it, personally for walking around resort i prefer something closer to a pair of trainers 
and ski boots for skiing
