 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
When working out the cost of travelling to a ski resort people on Snowheads seem to take into account the fuel, tolls, and channel crossing only. The true cost of running a car to a skiing resort is vastly greater than this. Depending on the car you are running then the actual TOTAL running costs excluding tolls and crossing will be between 25 & 40 pence per mile. Now take a journey from the middle of England and it will be at least 1500 miles, that is between £400 and £640. Add your tolls, parking, crossing, possible insurance upgrade, speeding fines, European breakdown cover, theft etc. and it doesnt look so cheap.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Frosty the Snowman, Those costs are the same where ever you drive the car so dont make much difference really, as a motorist you expect to pay a certain amount of up keep unless your company does the servicing for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Russell, Thats exactly how most people think,but it is just not the case, 1500 miles of European motoring does not come cheap. in 1 week you have already done one eighth of your "average" annual mileage. Every mile eats into the depreciation of your car and the running costs. Even standing costs go up with mileage. Its not like a train or flight ticket where the amount is fixed and is paid on demand, these costs silently accumulate. I run a small fleet of trucks for a living and believe me, mileage costs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Frosty the Snowman, I think you're absolutely right. There's no economic case for driving to the Alps, and no time advantage. I have done it, but only to avoid getting up in the middle of the night for the plane, parking, transferring to the terminal, check-in, and all the rest of the air travel grind, weighed down by boots, skis, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Frosty the Snowman, do you own Eddie Stobbart ? Prestons of Potto ? A Scurr ? Christian Savleson ? Reed Boardall ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Frosty the Snowman, For a fleet hire company or for some one who's intending to sell a car your right but I buy a car and run it until it falls apart. I never buy them new and accept that I get nothing for it but scrap value at the end. My last car I bought for £3500 at 4 years old ran it for 7 years spent about £1500 in service and maintenance over the time I had the car, works out at about £14.00 a week. For me a car is just transport, I'm not interested in the latest model I could afford to keep up loosing money each year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paul Mason, I bloody wish  Reed Boardall would be nice, profit margins if any in general haulage are miserly at best. We do Moving & Storage, home, office, overseas. 6 trucks, 4 smaller vehicles. Knowing your costs is very important in any transport related business. Can't imagine you drive to the alps from Birtley (truckstop). This year we went from Morth Yorks to La Plagne, left home 04.30 and were skiing for free at 15.03 in La Plagne. Total driving time 90 min. Sorry but motorway driving is overated. truck drivers can do a 9 hr day as its less tiring driving a truck, and they are used to it. Joe public on a thrash to a ski resort is not particularly safe either. Again these are just my opinions, and Im sure driving works for many
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Frosty the Snowman, It only works if you look after them a little TLC every now and then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Frosty the Snowman, it also depends how many of you are going, how cheap it is to arrange airport transfers and the possible saving in accommodation by staying somewhere a little less accessible. For various reasons, I've not yet driven to the Alps in winter, but I've gone that way many times in the summer. It's usually significantly cheaper for a family than flying and then hiring a car - even after depreciation, etc are included in the costs.
Having said that, my reasons for preferring driving (at least in summer) have more to do with convenience than cost. Ever been to Chambery airport on a bad weather day?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
As a rule of thumb, the true per mile running costs of the cars I've had are twice the petrol costs, currently that makes it about 20p per mile. As I tend to keep the cars until they are teenagers per mile depreciation doesn't enter into it, the purchase price is put down as a static cost and I asssume zero value at the end.
I did rough sums for our forthcoming trip to Tignes. Petrol + per mile maintenance etc. £300, French road tolls £150 (a bit of a guess), 'winterising' the car £100+, and then the killer, car parking £175. Upwards of £700. We're going by train 
I didn't forget the channel crossing, I get concessionary rates on Eurotunnel, most others would have to add in Eurotunnel/ferries as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Pete , Do you have to pay for parking in Tignes? Having never driven in resorts I haven't paid much attention previously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Peter Ross,
That's right, just paid my Hotel €67 for a week parking in their car park 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| pistemeister wrote: |
| The other advantages of driving are, you are not crammed into a space with a bunch of drunks, |
Well you've obviously never been in my car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Slowplough, Ah but the point is you choose who and how drunk. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
The other advantages of driving are, you are not crammed into a space with a bunch of drunks, and you wouldn't expect your car to fall out of the sky from 33,000 feet
|
Drunk on a plane is a criminal offence, and you dont axpect your plane to be squashed by a truck, or the pilot fall asleep at the stick.  The point I was trying to make is that people see car mileage as a fuel only cost, but in reality the ACTUAL cost is much higher
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| When working out the cost of travelling to a ski resort people on Snowheads seem to take into account the fuel, tolls, and channel crossing only. The true cost of running a car to a skiing resort is vastly greater than this. Depending on the car you are running then the actual TOTAL running costs excluding tolls and crossing will be between 25 & 40 pence per mile. Now take a journey from the middle of England and it will be at least 1500 miles, that is between £400 and £640. Add your tolls, parking, crossing, possible insurance upgrade, speeding fines, European breakdown cover, theft etc. and it doesnt look so cheap. |
Or maybe you're not the only one who can count? I know I can 
Easyjet for 4 adults to go to the Snowheads meet in BsM
Flights ( Luton to Geneva) = 163.92
Car hire (from easyjet website for a golf) = 238
Car hire (from easyjet website for a sharan) = 458
Petrol = 30
car parking at Luton = 42
That comes to between 473.92 and 693.20 quid
Ferry using Norfolk lines for 4 adults to go to the Snowheads meet in BsM
ferry (norfolk lines, these guys are sooooo cheap) = 88
mileage = 738 * 2 * .25 = 369
mileage = 738 * 2 * .40 = 590
tolls = 60
So, between 517 and 738 quid.
So far taking the car looks fairly cheap doesn't it? Per person it's not so different from the plane.
But, those Easyjet flights are cheap, how about at Easter?
Turns out it's the same for the car, Nofolklines charge the same (amazingly), but for flights ?
Flights = 643.92
Car hire (from easyjet website for a golf) = 264.91
Car hire (from easyjet website for a sharan) = 506.43
Petrol = 30
parking = 42
So, now it's between 980.83 and 1222.35 quid.
Some other minor points :
You can't add insurance and break down twice, it's covered in the mileage allowance you're making.
There's seem no basis to factor in speeding fines
Most insurance policies (at least when I lived in the UK) include at least a week for green card cover
Your mileage allowance is wrong, you've incorrectly taken a UK figure and apparently forgotten fuel is cheaper in France, dramatically so if you're driving a diesel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Slowplough, Hotel's charging for parking is just a rip off in my opinion. Does that charge apply in many resorts?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Don't know if it's already been posted but
http://www.speedferries.com
do returns to France for Cars at £50!(If booked early enough) with no limit on how long you can stay.
Rich
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Peter, you'll find it applies to most of the big ski-stations, usually the smaller resorts do not charge but you'll sometimes have difficulty finding a parking space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Peter Ross, you do have to pay in Tignes apparently. You are allowed about 1½ hours to unload your car then it must be put in a car park (which costs). The advice I have is the police/gendarmes are quite ruthless in towing away & impounding cars. The only cheap solution would be if your property had it's own off road parking.
As the Tignes.net website says, Tignes has a 24 hour free bus service, you don't need a car in resort. They are obviously encouraging you to arrive by public transport as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And of course, you do not have to pay tolls, just avoid the autoroutes.(And the Frejus tunnel!!)
I have never paid to park in a ski resort unless I used an individual lock up garage, ( it is ideal for dumping your kit at the end of the day and more secure than the average ski locker).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Pistemeister,
Been to Val Cenis/Termignon recently via Turin. Toll is expensive 36.5 euros, Without using the Frejus tunnel how would you get between both ? As the Mont Cenis pass (believe thats its name?) is closed at this/that time of year
Rich
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ise, Have a look at this [AA Website]. You can see from some of the maths that mileage does have a bg cost. Part of ny argument comes from the fact that I live in NE England, and for a weeks holiday, as Helen Beaumont says, its just not worth the effort
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Peter Ross, that's because a car park could earn more money if they built an extension on it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Frosty the Snowman, you've not checked these figure at all though have you? Using your new figures cost driving has now dropped to between 369 and 517. And those mileage costs are wrong for the same reason as your first ones were, fuel cost isn't the same on the continent, I thought you were in the transport business? I thought the entire industry spent it's time make spurious comparisons about fuel costs between the UK and Europe?
You must see the difference this factor alone makes, 50% of the per mileage cost on the figures you show is fuel cost. They use 86p a liter, it's around 60p a liter in France right now. So, the maths is pretty easy, in fact, there's a formula given in the chart. Cost per mile now drops to between 12.96p and 20.22, Obviously that reduces yet further the total cost to between 339 to 446.
There's plenty of good reasons to prefer one mode of transport over the other. Back when we lived in the UK I personally preferred to drive if it was a week or more and fly when it was less and I did live in the Peak District so the tunnel or ferry wasn't so close for me either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ise, please tell me where you can buy fuel for 60p per litre in France. The cheapest diesel we can find locally in a hypermarket is 1.02Euros per litre that's 70.55p per litre at the current exchange rate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
We (nearly) always drive, because
a) You can take more toys
b) You can get 2 or even 3 extra days in.
c) Mrs Ski can sleep most of the way
and
d) I can listen to a complete perfromance of Twilight of the Gods on the way !
Yes is does cost more, but Wagner's worth it !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
ise, I frequently find that the cost , and the experience is far better by road. I know you don't need to stay in a good hotel, and a Formule 1 will do , but we've visited some lovely places. Maybe saikee would like to comment on the costs from up here, as he frequently travels from Newcastle-Amsterdam by ferry and drives to the Alps. I've never believed it to be cost-effective, as whenever I look the ferry is expensive, but maybe he could tell us otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
David@traxvax, diesel, we were talking diesel. Any hypermarket but you know that already. If you read the link Frosty's gave it's talking diesel so that's the price I used as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Ise, so was I, I'd still like to know where you can buy feul for 60p a litre in France unless you're talking about LPG.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 3-02-05 16:53; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
it was 99.8 euros per llitre in Nice last weekend, but others we passed were around 1.01.-1.05 , so about 70p then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
ise, I didnt use these particular figures for my original statement, just pointed them out as a reference. Much depends on the car you drive, and your buying policy. for an average family car the cost for mileage depreciation alone is approx £40 per 1000 miles (over 12000 per yr). The difference beween uk an French fuel costs will take off about 2.5 pence per mile based on an average. Ooops Im late for an appointment, shall check back later
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
David@traxvax, near here (French Comte) it's 90 odd cents a liter, but I think you know that already.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
But, if you've got young kids it's much easier to drive. The kids can sleep most of the way, you can stuff loads of gear in the car or a roof box, buy decent quality baguettes and coffee at the fuel stops, and even better, fit in a case or two of wine on the way home. (Best if the car and fuel are paid by the company!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ise, You lost me about 2 days ago too fast man. Any how taking the AA figures and basing it on a car between £20-30k ( as most skiers by definition have a bit of wonga) the running costs for 2004 were 19.61 pence per mile. so increase this to 20ppm for 2005. We shall take off a generous 2.5ppm for cheaper fuel in France but add back 4 ppm for the extra depreciation that the eg 1500 mile journey will add based on an average yearly car milage. Already we have reached 21.5 ppm and for a 1500m journey thats well over £300. Add in all the other cost costs involved in the journey as I detailed, plus harsh weather prep that I forgot and its a big wedge of cash. Okay a bit below the figures I quoted but het what journalist tells the whole truth
I will agree that if I lived SE of London it may be an option, but the worst bit of the journey is in the UK. I used to do a lot of driving, and would possibly consider driving overnight on my own, but with kids...no way. Also unless you get good weather driving in the winter is slower and with kids being couped up is a problem. Airports, planes, coaches, all have the facilities for kids to have a walk about and a loo if needed.
| Quote: |
Personally I'd rather spend a week at the dentist than go a package tour
|
I really think you need to try a different "package" tour. LAst 2 we have done were with Ski Olympic, and Silver Ski. Smaller operators. They were both fantastic. Silver Ski had us leaving Manchester airport at 06.45 with a 5.30 check in (75min check in  ) and flew us to Lyon and at 3.00 we had been to the hire shop and SS gave us our complimentary after 15.00 ski passes that they had arranged by phone on the bus. We skied for 2 hrs. Cant do that in a car. Suppose we hhave been lucky with our TO. £ yrs ago went to Kaprun with Crystal and were the 10th drop off on the transfer bus, so we learn by our mistakes. BAck to work before somone suspects.
7w 1d 23h 40mins take off Ski Olympic La Rosiere
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ahh, note your address. You could always drive to Dover and get the train to Aviemore, you could then appreciate a decent rail service. I will acknowledge that on distances of 25km that car travel is substantially cheaper, and much more convenient
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
so, add 60 quid to the figures I gave you above then 