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Switzerland Smoking Ban

 Poster: A snowHead
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Smoking Ban Starts July 1st in Canton Bern

http://www.bernerzeitung.ch/region/kanton-bern/Ab-1-Juli-gilt-Rauchverbot-im-Kanton/story/21965623

Also in Wallis (Valais)

http://www.rzoberwallis.ch/rz-tvbox/aktuellefilme/rauchverbotimwallis.php
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Hah I'm going to Graubünden next half term Crying or Very sad One of the few things I dislike about Switzerland.
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That's really good news.
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Thank goodness!! We were stuck next to the chain smoker from hell when we went out for a meal in Switzerland last Xmas.....it was a shock as we'd got used to the smoke free atmosphere elsewhere in Europe.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Although I don't smoke, I rather liked the relaxed attitude towards smoking in Switzerland. It smacked of respect for individual choice, and a disrespect for political correctness.
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Colin B, have they not stopped in GB ? Its out ot the vote yet I tihnk in St Gallen next door but I heard it would be banned[/b]
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I have to add that there are NO laws to in force the ban.
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achilles wrote:
It smacked of respect for individual choice,


To Kill other people .
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Frosty, Don't know, hope so. I've only been to Valais before.
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stanton, err, how? I was under the impression that passive smoking had been "cleared" as not being particularly harmful?

Anyway, I will agree that it's massively more pleasant to come home from a night out and not have your clothing and hair stinking of old smoke. Unless you've been at a barbeque.
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While I wasn't a fan of the overheated, over-smokey bar at the hotel in Wengen last year, it was sooooooooo nice to be able to socialise a bit without having to freeze to death. I've just stopped going into bars etc except for rare occasions as I'm sure many smokers have. I always used to stop off for a coffee after work - now I just go home! I hear pubs in the UK are in trouble - no surprise there. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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stanton, rolling eyes
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Colin B, In St Gallen they will have to provide a smoking room which can be inside but has to be well (mechanically) ventilated I think. this will be in all restaurants or pubs but I'm not sure when this starts, I think its October. I was certain Graubunden had already voted to stop indoor smoking, I may be wrong, it happens a lot wink
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stanton, OK, I'm wrong.
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stanton wrote:
achilles wrote:
It smacked of respect for individual choice,


To Kill other people .


Where do you live again? Toofy Grin
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easiski wrote:
While I wasn't a fan of the overheated, over-smokey bar at the hotel in Wengen last year, it was sooooooooo nice to be able to socialise a bit without having to freeze to death. I've just stopped going into bars etc except for rare occasions as I'm sure many smokers have. I always used to stop off for a coffee after work - now I just go home! I hear pubs in the UK are in trouble - no surprise there. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad


You can socialise without smoking . Smoking is Anti Social.

Whats more important :

1 The health of an individual
2 A business (bar,cafe,etc) going out of business

There is only one answer!
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David Murdoch wrote:
stanton, err, how? I was under the impression that passive smoking had been "cleared" as not being particularly harmful?


Smokers live in a world of self denial.

Secondhand Smoke (SHS) or Passive smoke, is VERY harmful Skullie

http://www.stopsmokingtoday.com/dync/13/Passive_Smoking.html

Secondhand Smoke (SHS), has moved on a bit. You now have to consider 3rd Hand Smoke which is why I think kids of Smoking Parents should be taken into care to protect them.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081229105037.htm
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stanton, I said I was wrong didn't I? Happy
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stanton, I'm not in denial, but I don't see why I shouldn't do something that's completely legal - after all, alcohol is just as dangerous. If businesses go bust then lots of people lose their jobs, can't afford to eat .......... shall I go on? Separate, properly ventilated smoking rooms would be fine. Get off your hobby horse. rolling eyes
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As the recipient of tobacco smoke from five adults living in the same house as myself as a young child, and the subsequent chest problems I had for several years as a result, I am in agreement with stanton on this one. Out of my grandparents, aunts, and parents, only my mother didn't smoke. Evidence? Disappearance of the problems when I was no longer exposed to the smoke on a regular basis. My mother was exposed for far longer, and despite never smoking, has frequent chest problems and needs inhalers.
Tobacco may be completely legal, but someone enjoying a drink is not infllicting health problems on innocent bystanders.
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easiski, Of course you can smoke. As you say it is legal. The legislation now in place in a number of countries simply dictates where you are not allowed to smoke because of the danger to other people. Alcohol is not comparable. Someone drinking a glass of wine or a pint of beer next to me is not endangering me: a smoker sitting next to me is, because I will be involuntarily inhaling the smoke. Studies of the health of bar workers after the public building smoking ban in Scotland showed an improvement on several indicators. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/53945.php So, take away secondary smoke and health improves. The idea that secondary smoke doesn't do harm in any case defies rational argument. Presuming no-one would credibly argue that inhaling the smoke from your own cigarette is not harmful, does something miraculously happen to the smoke from your cigarette in the couple of feet it travels before it is inhaled into my lungs that renders it harmless? I may inhale less than you do, but what I do inhale is still damaging.

And finally, there do seem to be signs of a general benefit to public health

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2007/09/10081400
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There was a study which suggested that although passive smokers inhaled less smoke, they actually received a higher percentage of harmful substances as the smoke had not been filtered.
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Is this a little like the Global Warming stuff?
Some people are for it and some ain't and they will NEVER agree. (I personally could do with a little more as it's bloody freezing here)

I would personally ban old ladies from going to supermarkets. How many times have they held up the queue whilst they search through massive hand bags for their purse, holding up everyone else?

Oh yeah, we should ban people from holding up their hands and doing the "in quotes" thingy with their fingers next to their ears.

And we should ban anyone from starting sentences with “I'm sure you'll agree with me here that blah blah blah”

And we should ban ...... no think I'll stop here Little Angel
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Wayne,

You must be a smoker.
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stanton wrote:
Wayne,

You must be a smoker.


That’s not the point (I‘m not though). There are many things that I could justify as being either against the common good or as better for an individual if they didn’t do it. I personally think the smoking ban is wonderful, but I also fully understand my reasons for being “for it” have sod all to do with improving the health of the nation. I am “for it” as I don’t like smoking, simple as that. I think it smells bad and looks silly.

In Folgarida where I work, we have a nice hotel called the Derby (totally fully booked for next year, so not a business plug). They have a smoking rooming in the bar area. The smoking room is sealed so no smoke can get out and “infect” non-smokers; there is an extraction system so the smoke is pushed outside. Everyone is happy; the smokers as they are not treated as some type of second class citizens and the non-smokers as they don’t have to sit in smoke filled rooms.

Why point this out? Well, my mate (who runs the hotel) is also a non-smoker but he also fully understands that the smoking ban has sod all to do with increasing the levels of health of the nation. If it was the sale of fags would be simply stopped. The smoking ban is just one section of society trying to impose their ideas, on a habit they don’t like, onto another section and he doesn’t like that.

The anti smoking lobby has justified their objections, as it is extremely simple to do, on the paternalistic grounds that it’s “good for em” so they are going to cut down, whether they like it or not. They will never admit (even to themselves) that it is just a case of “I don’t like, so you can’t do it”. They can’t justify it on the grounds of costs – the taxes raised by smoker far out-weigh the cost involves in treating smoking related illnesses. And the laying of off thousands of pub workers per month and the associated cost to the nation is obvious to anyone who isn’t government funded, so doesn’t care, or working for a charity with a sadly skewed viewpoint.

The anti-smoking laws can not be justify it on the grounds of protecting children (even though this is always the first option) The Protection of Children blah blah – I have 4 and 6 year girls (going on 35 and 40 respectively) so you can't smoke in my house, fair enough, but that fact that children ain’t allowed in night clubs seems not to matter to them. So they desperately search around for another reason (anything will do) that will show that they are not just allowing free reign to their own distaste, so what do we get (here’s a good one) lets say we are protecting the workers (even in the case of small pubs run by couples that both smoke), power to the people.

I find many things that other people do as offensive, stupid or just downright unpleasant. This is not a reason to ban them. As long as these things don’t affect me personally, then hey, go for it. I could point out, as is repetitively done, that this or that thing that others do has affected someone I know or could theoretically affect me, but the smoking ban can’t be justified on these grounds, as it would be very simple to allow people to smoke in sealed areas, so negating any possibility of me being affected in any way. No, this is just PC gone mad.

You can not point backwards at people who may have been affected by some habit in the past. Where do we stop. I guess that some ancestor of mine may have been burnt at the stake as a witch, as she has a wart. Maybe one of my ancestors raped a rabbit as part of a pre-Roman religious ritual. How far do we go back as it doesn’t have to be that far back.. My grand-dad had his ear shot off at Dunkirk, we don’t ban Germans from coming to the UK. More to the point I know of someone (one of the tens of thousands of people per year) who died in a car crash, we don’t ban cars, even though more people are killed in cars than by smoking. Go to any casualty department on a Saturday and just sit and watch. Drinking alcohol isn’t banned, why not?

So, this is obviously just another case of the nanny state(s) being swayed by a few people with either political agendas or a holier than thou mindset.

Either way I say, hey guys if you want to kill your self, feel free to do so.


wink Told ya – I’m well into my Clarkson period and moving rapidly towards my Meldrew. wink


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon 15-06-09 8:41; edited 2 times in total
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A wise man once said "be careful what you ask for, as you might just get it".

Since the smoking ban, nightclubs and music venues no longer smell of cigarettes. They smell of farts, and sick.

Bring back smoking!
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Wayne, great post!
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Wayne, Well said. I've been in Meldrew mode for years. Laughing

WRT alcohol: it's nearly as addictive as nicotine and changes people's personalities which nicotine doesn't. If I can no longer walk along a street in Bath city centre on a Friday or Saturday evening because of the drunken and aggressive behaviour, how can anyone say it's not comparable? Drunk drivers kill people with monotonous regularity, they fight and hurt each other and attack innocent people. Alcoholics steal, lie and cheat to feed their habit - try living with one. Shocked

Pubs never used ventilation properly because they wanted everyone to be thirsty and dry throated and buy more beer, so of course smoking pubs were not pleasant. Think about this though - the Lutins bar here always had a non-smoking room that was completely closed off, but that wasn't sufficient for the authorities - it's a family run bar, the family all smoke, and nearly all their regulars smoke and they provided this room ..... no - they HAD to go no smoking anyway. A certain non-smoking (very nice) snowHead complained to me about the atmosphere one evening (it's often too smokey for me too), but didn't want to go into the no smoking room because the craic was in the bar. rolling eyes

I think no smoking in restaurants is fine, all I'm asking for is a choice for smokers not to have to stand outside in -20degs in order to be sociable on an evening out.

There was a very sad bit on tele a while back about an Iraqi man who'd saved all his life and had finally bought a tea shop. The vast majority of iraqi men smoke, and they sit in these tea shops - we've all seen it on TV. They were bringing in a ban from jan this year, so the poor bloke's lifelong dream was dead before it started, and all his life savings down the drain. Surely this is american lifestyle being foisted on another country with another lifestyle entirely? If you lived in Iraq second hand smoking would probably be low on your priorities.
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Wayne wrote:


Why point this out? Well, my mate (who runs the hotel) is also a non-smoker but he also fully understands that the smoking ban has sod all to do with increasing the levels of health of the nation. If it was the sale of fags would be simply stopped. The smoking ban is just one section of society trying to impose their ideas, on a habit they don’t like, onto another section and he doesn’t like that.


Sorry, but this is just plain rubbish.

First, the government can't afford to simply ban the sale of fags, because they would lose to much tax revenue, with the benefits in lower NHS costs not kicking in for years.

It may be hypocritical of the government to do something for one reason while not doing something which would have even more effect, but since when have governments worried about being hypocritical?

Second, banning the sale would be pointless unless you were also going to ban the (personal) import, and that would require that all EU states brought in a ban on the sale, or it would be in breach of EU rules.

Third, bannning the sale would lead to a huge increase in crime. We have enough problems with illegal drugs that have never been legal, without adding ones that are currently legal to the mix.

The aims are first to protect those who do not choose to smoke, and secondly to gradually reduce the overall level of smoking by making it a less accaptable thing to do in public. Both will help "the health of the nation" without requiring an immediate complete ban on the sale of tobacco.

[EDIT]
I just feel I should point out here that I do feel the legislation goes too far, in not allowing for "smoking rooms" in public places, so long as those rooms are sealed off and ventilated to the outside sufficiently to ensure virtually no smoke reaches the "main" premises.
[/EDIT]
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If there are no laws to enforce it, it is lip service.

Last year in a Swiss bar it was a shock to smell smoke indoors... and that would be my preference, but that is about as far as I would go with it..
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JT wrote:
If there are no laws to enforce it, it is lip service.


Probably not, in Switzerland.

THe Swiss do have a reputation for being much more willing to follow rules than most nationalities.
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In Switzerland you're not allowed to flush your toilet after dark.
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alex_heney wrote:

Sorry, but this is just plain rubbish.


Yeah, you're probably right Very Happy
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easiski wrote:

WRT alcohol: it's nearly as addictive as nicotine and changes people's personalities which nicotine doesn't. If I can no longer walk along a street in Bath city centre on a Friday or Saturday evening because of the drunken and aggressive behaviour, how can anyone say it's not comparable? Drunk drivers kill people with monotonous regularity, they fight and hurt each other and attack innocent people. Alcoholics steal, lie and cheat to feed their habit - try living with one. Shocked


Here we go again comparing like for like when there is no relationship between the two.

Thousands of People all over the world are dying of 2 hand smoke.
Not every country has a UK drink & aggresion problem as you describe.

Smoking does also changes peoples personalities.
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alex_heney wrote:

I just feel I should point out here that I do feel the legislation goes too far, in not allowing for "smoking rooms" in public places, so long as those rooms are sealed off and ventilated to the outside sufficiently to ensure virtually no smoke reaches the "main" premises.


If there going to allow smoking rooms they will have to build showers & clothing decontamination units before the smokers are allowed back into a Public space. When you are in a clean environment there is nothing more disgusting than the smell of nicotine impregnated clothing, skin, hair Very Happy Very Happy

Soon the Bus Stop legislation like in Canada will come to Europe Very Happy Very Happy

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22192878-Rant-TTC-wants-smokers-10-meters-away-from-bus-shelters
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stanton wrote:
alex_heney wrote:

I just feel I should point out here that I do feel the legislation goes too far, in not allowing for "smoking rooms" in public places, so long as those rooms are sealed off and ventilated to the outside sufficiently to ensure virtually no smoke reaches the "main" premises.


If there going to allow smoking rooms they will have to build showers & clothing decontamination units before the smokers are allowed back into a Public space. When you are in a clean environment there is nothing more disgusting than the nicotine impregnated clothing, skin, hair Very Happy Very Happy


There is nothing you can do about that without banning smoking entirely. Sad

It doesn't make any difference to the above whether somebody has just come from a smoking room, or whether they have come from smoking in their own home.
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stanton wrote:


If there going to allow smoking rooms they will have to build showers & clothing decontamination units before the smokers are allowed back into a Public space. When you are in a clean environment there is nothing more disgusting than the smell of nicotine impregnated clothing, skin, hair Very Happy Very Happy


Need I say more

wayne wrote:

The smoking ban is just one section of society trying to impose their ideas, on a habit they don’t like, onto another section


When it comes down to it, not even the most rabid anti-smoker will admit that it's nothing other than just a personal dislike of a habit. Using the smell of smoke as a reason to ostracise a large section of society is about what it comes down to. The zoo-like peering out of the pub window at the poor smokers with a smug "there, got em" grin is what it comes down to. I really truly hate Almonds but I don't picket ASDA or Tesco every December as they are selling Christmas cakes topped with marzipan. OK, not as many people die from eating marzipan as do from smoking, but so what, smokers make a choice and (regardless of what we have been told) they really do know what the risks are. So why not leave em alone to puff away. If this means building sealed rooms (at the landlords expense) what’s the harm to me or anyone else who chooses not to smoke.

You can't smoke in my house. Simple reason, I don't want you to. Tuff. If you don't like it, don't call round. But this is my choice and I know it's just because I don't like it. I admit that.
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..


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Mon 15-06-09 11:37; edited 1 time in total
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Are you non-smokers still bleating on? rolling eyes
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easiski, take away a smokers cigarettes for six hours and tell me it doesn't change their personality Wink
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