 Poster: A snowHead
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Still not in the Ryanair 60 (sixty) smackers league - but getting there. We go for the old 2 pairs in one bag routine but for weekend trips it's soon gonna be cheaper to hire.....
BTW, I see Dick Turpin Air, sorry Ryanair are now charging £5 for compulsory online check in! Rumour has it that the Office of Fair Trading are interested in looking at that latest scam.
Last winter was the first one that I haven't flown with them. The ski charge is just preposterous - irrespective of flights that might have cost 1p - and was just about the final straw for me. Come to think of it, after spending half an hour looking for their latest "free" flights (Hintertux beckoned) I now just wish they'd go bust and save me the rigmarole of spending 10 mins entering all the passenger details, e mail addresses, "no I don't want insurance" etc etc before I can actually see the full and final cost of a flight from Stansted to Middleofnowheresville International landing strip....
Avoiding weekends, the best I could find to Salzburg for late June for was £120 each, all charges included. Oh, except for debit card payment - I'd given up before finding how much that final extra would cost.Where the **** do you find an Electron card?? No charge for them so I assume they must be a bit hard to obtain?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think these airlines would do far better to advertise an all-inclusive base price (similar to the scheduleds) and then tell you how you can reduce it, eg if you have no hold luggage, subtract £x, if you check in online, subtract £x. On a winter flight skis would be included but if you're NOT taking your own, subtract £x. It'd be the same thing in the end, but would somehow seem a much fairer attitude and be less likely to seem like a scam.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You can get an Electron card very easily by applying online to Halifax.
Surely if you regularly fly with Ryanair you know what all the extra charges add up to and you just add that to the base price when you look?
I don't use Ryanair but I do regularly fly with Easyjet and am aware that I have to pay for my bags and skis and that will add about £50 on to a flight for a ski holiday. When I use them to visit my friend for a weekend travelling with hand luggage only I appreciate not having to pay more to subsidise other peoples luggage.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| Avoiding weekends, the best I could find to Salzburg for late June for was £120 each, all charges included |
Did-dums.... 
Airline flight have never been cheaper or more affordable.
So I suggest that you dry your eyes.
Expecting to be flown to Europe, when ever you fancy, for under a 100 quid is both selfish and narrow minded.
Especially when there isn't much debate that humans are royally screwing up the planet.
And the huge explosion of budget airlines is partly to blame.
The sooner people realise that the days of 99p flights are over the better.
And as a society we should be promoting use of other forms of transport, such as trains, with fairer fuel taxes.
Higher airline prices are a GOOD THING.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
Avoiding weekends, the best I could find to Salzburg for late June for was £120 each, all charges included. |
Assuming two of you, there wouldn't be any possible cheaper way of doing it (unless another airline manages to undercut that).
From "NE England" you are looking at 1000 miles each way, plus the cost of ferries/tunnel. So unless you get about 60mpg, or you can get the channel crossing for under £50 return, it is going to cost you more than £240 - and take a lot longer.
To me, there is something slightly wrong when it is actually cheaper for two people to fly than to drive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree with alex_heney, flying is still by far the cheapest form of transport even over very short distances. I've been pricing up trips to Scotland and flying wins every time, even the priciest route is 60% of the likely fuel price for driving (not to mention wear and tear), the train costs almost twice as much as flying.
When it's the cheapest and quickest form of transport it's a bit of a no brainer considering anything else. Admittedly I have no skis to carry.
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| Quote: |
Expecting to be flown to Europe, when ever you fancy, for under a 100 quid is both selfish and narrow minded
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I have 3 flights booked for next winter, each of which are less than £100 including ski carriage, none with Easyjet or Ryanair btw.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Butterfly wrote: |
My point is that airlines like BA don't charge extra for skis and that it'd look more attractive if the cheapies had a long list of discounts off the price rather than a long list of extras to add on - same thing in the end, just a prettier wrapper. |
Unfortunately for us it would be a marketing disaster for them if they did that as they are not 'Cheapies' , frequently more expensive than so-called 'full fare' airlines and to do it the other way around would just highlight that fact ... they just see it as 'Charging for what you get'. That is obviously incorrect as the list of add-ons and the true costs involved vs the headline prices are obviously disproportionate, but we keep using them so it works. I don't see how it can be their fault ... we keep using them and believing they are 'low-price'.
I quite like Easyjet ( I find them generally more punctual --- apart from when they totally lose the plot on occasion) but since last October their headline prices to the UK have been a lot more than BA/EI/BMI on Nice routes --- the best/worst being c. £500 one-way recently. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
there isn't much debate that humans are royally screwing up the planet.
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Actually there's plenty of debate about that, but it's being treated like some kind of heresy so you don't get to hear much of it.
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Lufthansa still 97-100 euros return last time I checked, all inclusive. Admittedly it's not the most convenient airline for UK based skiers, but does highlight the fact that it's worth checking scheduled as well as no-frills. You can get those prices on the Munich-BHX/MAN routes (not looked in reverse), although I do see that the cheapest prices are selling out now for weekend flights.
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You know it makes sense.
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I agree that cheap flights are no longer justifiable in global terms, so I accept that going back to rather more expensive flights is/will be right. 20 years ago the cost of travel to/from a ski holiday was about the same as staying a week in a chalet. I often used to get a small refund if I decided to go by train.
That said, people taking skis on SueezyJet and Addon-air are now subsidising those who don't. Just get used to them not being the cheapest any more and use them if their timings are better.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 9-06-09 9:18; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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alex_heney, queen bodecia, it's long been cheaper, per person, to travel by air than by car.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Is it better for 150 people to fly in one plane or 150 cars to drive?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For the environment ?
150 cars driving is way more efficient that a single aircraft.
Flying produces double the C02 of any other form of transport. (per person / per km travelled).
Plus the gases are released high into the the atmosphere - where they do the most damage.
When possible we should always be encouraging people take alternate forms of transport.
Rather than just flying, because its usually the cheapest method ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frankly, I don't really care as an individual about 'global concerns' and flying; I am content for airlines and other transport methods to work within the constraints applied by democratically elected government. The market operating within those constraints is reasonably competitive, IMV - and if it turns out that fares are going up, there is little cause to rant. As far as skis particularly are concerned, a former boss of mine went on to be well up the food chain of an airline. He told me that airlines hated skis, since they were awkward to handle. So I am not surprised that the cost of transporting them is going up. There are alternatives to flying, and if sufficient people use them ,the airlines will review their pricing. Of course, they may still decide that skis are not worth transporting free. As for BA not charging - well that pension fund running an airline on the side has problems that will affect its pricing. If it works out cheaper for you to use them right now, enjoy whilst that lasts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just rent , you can get some great deals. I negotiated a rent in St anton for 4 weeks (seperate) 100euros.
If your a regular visitor to a resort just leave the skis there.
[quote="Haggis_Trap"]
The sooner people realise that the days of 99p flights are over the better.
[quote]
I just booked a flight for 50 eurocents each way Amsterdam-Eastern Med with a Major Carrier 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
150 cars driving is way more efficient that a single aircraft.
Flying produces double the C02 of any other form of transport. (per person / per km travelled). |
Do you have justification for that? From the data underlying the DEFRA calculator, european flights cost 98 g/km (page 36), and that should be upscaled by about 9% to allow for circling etc., whereas a smallish car will be of the order of 180 g/km (page 34). So flights are actually about half the CO2 cost of single occupancy car use, but have similar cost to dual occupancy car use. You only get your factor of flights being double the cost if you get 4 into the car. You may have a point though about the difference in altitude at which the emissions are made.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 9-06-09 10:17; edited 2 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sometimes wonder if the no-frills airlines have stocks in Skiset and Intersport 
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Actually there's plenty of debate about that, but it's being treated like some kind of heresy so you don't get to hear much of it. |
Plenty of people in denial doesn't constitute a debate IMHO!
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| hyweljenkins wrote: |
| alex_heney, queen bodecia, it's long been cheaper, per person, to travel by air than by car. |
That is meaningless, since the cost of traveling by car is the same whether you have 1 person or 4 people in the car.
It has usually been true in he past that it was cheaper for one person to travel by air, but cheaper for two or more to travel by car.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN - the document you linked to suggests that the relative damage caused by aircraft C02 emissions is at least 1.9x the volume of CO2 produced. Mainly due to the C02 being released at altitude and other effects (NOx / Vapor trails etc). Additionally a domestic / short haul flight releases more like 175kg/km.
You certainly wouldnt expect to be able to drive from London to Geneva (or Amsterdam to Med) for 99p ?
So why should people be allowed to fly for that price ?
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| So why should people be allowed to fly for that price ? |
Because that is what the airline charge, that's why.....and long may it continue.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| roga wrote: |
| Lizzard wrote: |
| Actually there's plenty of debate about that, but it's being treated like some kind of heresy so you don't get to hear much of it. |
Plenty of people in denial doesn't constitute a debate IMHO! |
While there is some truth in that, there is more truth in the fatf that there is still plenty of debate about it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the marketing directors for the no-frills airlines are probably pretty good at their job. And I'd be surprised if they weren't right about the elasticity of demand for ski carriage. Indeed, if they weren't right, people wouldn't be making such a fuss about it.
Someone came up with a statistic on another thread that only 10% of skiers take their own skis. That 10%, which has probably spent the previous 10 months fretting about which of half a dozen practically indistinguishable models of ski will prove best suited to their technical ability and terrain preference, will probably pay the extra. Unless they do, and depending on handling and other costs, it might pay the airlines concerned to prohibit ski carriage altogether. And if that looks like becoming the case, the marketing chaps will probably spot the trend first.
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| roga wrote: |
| Lizzard wrote: |
| Actually there's plenty of debate about that, but it's being treated like some kind of heresy so you don't get to hear much of it. |
Plenty of people in denial doesn't constitute a debate IMHO! |
Saying that others are 'in denial' doesn't constitute a debate, either. Nor does it appear humble (as in IMHO).
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You know it makes sense.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
For the environment ?
150 cars driving is way more efficient that a single aircraft.
Flying produces double the C02 of any other form of transport. (per person / per km travelled).
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Only when each form of transport is compared with the vehicles full.
A car with four in will certainly be half (or less) of the C)2 produced by 4 people flying (in a full plane).
But a car with one in will be more CO2 than one person flying (in a full plane).
Again, planes flying half empty are obviously far worse in CO2 per passenger kilometre terms than full planes. And there are rather too many empty seats on many winter flights, IME.
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Plus the gases are released high into the the atmosphere - where they do the most damage.
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That may well be true.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As one of the 90% who preferred to rent, the collapse of the pound has as of this week put me into the "bring your own skis" camp, so unless sterling recovers I suspect the ratio may change quite a bit over the next couple of years.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Mmm, seems to be a lot of skinflints on here that want somethng for nothing - you cant have it always. You want the cheap headline price and then dont want to pay excessive fees for ski carriage - they need to make their money some way, that's just economics/good business practice. It is you that have demanded this price price price issue. Live by the sword die by the sword. The consumer public (Brits in particular) have brought this on themselves. I hate Ryanair as much as the next man, so book elsewhere with BA or Swiss or easyjet etc. essentially you have to look at the final figure you pay and make your choice.
It seems many of you want flights for £1 and free ski carriage? Get real.
If we the Bristish public continue in our aggressive purchasing patterns and waiting to purchase only the distressed stock (holidays/flight seats being a perishable item) then we can expect a few companies to go out of business and supply to be reduced and therefore prices increase. Purchasing is a two way process and it has to work for both parties in the long run. keep chasing the sub-value bargains and you will be partly responsible for increased prices in the long run. Just read Peter Hardy's blogs - http://www.welove2ski.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=h00&bloggerID=14,4,5,&bloggerName=,
Just think:
Ski All America - ceased trading
Ski Avtivity - no longer running catered chalets
Ski a la carte - ceased trading
TUIski - reducing chalets by 50%
Scott Dunn - reducing stock by 30%
Leski - 10% reduction
European air Charter - ceased trading
Neilson- German parent on brink of collapse and begging for German goverment assistance
Astraeus - pulled out of charter business and grounded/leased planes
Excel - ceased trading
BA - huge losses
This market cull is flushing out a lot of companies but also spells an end to cheap travel but I bet the vultures amongst you think you can eek out one last deal? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
So why should people be allowed to fly for that price (99p) ?
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I don't want 99p - I want FREE!! This whole thread/debate was sparked by Ryanair e mailing me yesterday to tell me that they have millions of free seats on offer in June. Hence my trawling of their website, ultimately to no avail.
Anyway, the flights are going regardless of whether I'm on them or not - so why not get the cheapest fares I can?
Are the eco-warrior skiers - who logically should really be hiking to the Alps if they want to sleep soundly at night - really telling us that they would turn their nose up at a free or 99p (plus taxes, misc. charges, baggage charges, ski carriage, handling fees, credit card charges and toilet on plane fee) and would instead prefer to pay £150 to fly to Geneva or wherever? How, exactly, does me paying more benefit the environment directly?
The Defra website shows that in 2007, 542m tonnes of CO2 were produced in the UK. Of that total, just over 2m tonnes (ie less than half of one percent) was from aviation. The biggest proportion (215m tonnes) was from energy supply - yet, despite this being over 100 times the level produced by aviation, there is not a "turn that light off hysteria" associated with that sector like there is with virtually persecuting those of us who even dare to think of booking a flight. All a bit strange if you ask me.
Must go - just about to switch off my PC to cut down on emissions from the energy supply sector.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I get emails assuring me I've won big prizes in lotteries I've never entered..... the marketing minds behind those know a thing or two, as well.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| truffaut wrote: |
| As one of the 90% who preferred to rent, the collapse of the pound has as of this week put me into the "bring your own skis" camp, so unless sterling recovers I suspect the ratio may change quite a bit over the next couple of years. |
I'd rather pay the £40 and get my skis out than pay £100 to rent and have to make do with the best I can get from the hire shops "premium" range.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easyjet started with some quite reasonable supplements and have steadily ramped them up, far beyond the marginal cost of handling IMO. I usually book a few flights rtn to the alps ove rthe winter on spec then use them if I'm still free. This year I haven't bothered because I think that I'd rather take a chance on BA, Swiss etc nearer to the date so its a chunk of revenue Sleasy are unlikely to get despite me being very happy with their service and the way they have sorted out a couple of travel issues that could have been major dramas this past months.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| easyjet started with some quite reasonable supplements and have steadily ramped them up, far beyond the marginal cost of handling IMO. ..... |
Well a business kinda wants to make a profit, rather than selling at marginal cost.
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| achilles wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
| easyjet started with some quite reasonable supplements and have steadily ramped them up, far beyond the marginal cost of handling IMO. ..... |
Well a business kinda wants to make a profit, rather than selling at marginal cost. |
profit ... yes. Extortion ... no.
I'm guessing here, but the true cost of taking skis on a typical Eurpoean flight (handling plus fuel) can't exceed £5 per leg ? Does anyone really know?
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| Quote: |
Well a business kinda wants to make a profit, rather than selling at marginal cost
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and it will decide, on the basis of its calculation of elasticities which service charges they can afford to ramp up, and which are best sold at cost, or under cost. It's pretty basic stuff, really. It's a bit odd, when you think about it, to argue that ski carriage should be charged at marginal cost.
Major airlines have for years, I understand, been charging heaps more for business and First Class seats than would be justified just in terms of costs - and using this (inelastic - at least in the past) source of revenue to enable them to sell cattle class seats at cheaper prices. Airlines without business or First Class presumably have to find other "premium services" for which they can charge extra. easyJet have done so - remarkably - with the inane "pay extra to spend longer on the plane" service, and they probably think they can do the same with ski carriage. If they're proved wrong, no doubt they'll think again.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you want to avoid this, try flying British Airways or someone similar. My flights for the week before Christmas with British Airways to Geneva cost £80 return.. that includes all my checking in, a bag to put in the hold, ski carriage (not applicable for me) and a bite to eat on the plane. We have frequently found BA cheaper than many budget airlines for flying around Europe, when all fees and additions are put on top of the base fare.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 9-06-09 13:55; edited 1 time in total
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| pam w wrote: |
| That 10%, which has probably spent the previous 10 months fretting about which of half a dozen practically indistinguishable models of ski will prove best suited to their technical ability and terrain preference, will probably pay the extra. |
I just have one set of skis. Some resorts I could probably hire decent off-piste skis with touring bindings. In most it would be hard if not impossible and in the Dolomites there seemed to be no off-piste skis at all.
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FAQ
amazingly, not everyone who flies in the winter is going skiing 
