 Poster: A snowHead
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Bill Jensen - chief executive of Intrawest, one of the world's most prominent ski resort developers and operators - has told a US conference on the future of the ski industry that real estate has "gone down the toilet, out the street and now in the ocean ... We need to focus on our core business again.”
Jensen was speaking to representatives of more than 400 American ski resorts.
This report from Summit Daily News
Are you selling (or buying) property in a ski resort at the present time? Is your toilet functioning normally?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In fairness the article doesn't comment on whether this is a global phenomenon or relates just to the US situation, as it was a conference with representatives from "400 N American resorts"
Prices in Flaine Montsoleil always seemed overoptimistic and this is what has happened to them
1 bedroom apartments from 151.890€ (was 249,000€) - 39%
2 bedroom apartments from 221.250€ (was 375,000€) - 41%
3 bedroom apartments from 344.650€ (was 565,000€) - 41%
4 bedroom apartments from 684,000€ (was 912,000€) - 25%
Still fairly pricey toilets I would hazard 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith,We're selling our flat and found buyers within three weeks at about 5% more than we paid for it two and a half years ago, there are two buyer waiting to see if the first guy performs ok. There's still not much for sale round here and the market is pretty stable. The bog works fine.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bill Jenson is being a little disingenuous: real estate is Intrawest's core business; Intrawest is essentially a luxury property development business with a small lift management company attached. They haven't published financial statements since going private, but their most recent available accounts suggest that resort activities account for around a third of revenues and a much smaller share of profits. That third includes revenues from restaurants, ski schools and the like, so actual direct lift ticket revenue is small beer indeed - it's simply a lever to add value to their other activities.
In this recession, we're actually witnessing the destruction of Inrawest's business model. It'll be interesting to see how they land up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Frosty, 2 and a half years ago, i think you may have missed the thrust of this article.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Same deal in Australia. Most lift management companies, or at least their parent companies, make money primarily out of real estate. If the bottom has not fallen out of that business model, it sure has come close. There are heaps of apartments for sale at my 2 local resorts - some of which have been on the market for 12 - 18+ months.
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I suppose the French model has been very different. Those huge US condos, with big luxury top-end bathrooms etc never had much in common with the typical range of apartments in French resort s, most of them still pretty affordable. And "property development" or investment in property has not so often been seen as a route to making mega-bucks. Which means it won't be a route to losing mega-bucks either. Bon.
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Isn't it much the same as here in the UK. If you've recently (last two or three years maybe) bought property, especially new build, you're likely to be looking at lower value now that what you paid. Hopefully you won't be forced to sell, so the negative equity scenario, if you're fully mortgaged, won't affect you. If you bought several years ago even the recent fall in property prices might not be enough to bring the valuation down below what you paid for it. We bought in Les Arcs six years ago (about the same time as Intrawest starting developing Arc 1950). I'd guess that there has been a 30% fall in property prices in the last 12 months, which is a huge amount, but nowhere near the close to threefold increase in prices since we bought our place. My crystal ball doesn't say what's going to happen in the future, but I'd guess that demand will eventually pick up, with a commensurate rise in prices. In the meantime the CDA (which I think Intrawest has a major share in?) is reporting increased profits for its lift company business, so maybe Intrawest Europe isn't quite in a position to be flushed?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Last March in Telluride,Colorado I was speaking to a local Realty Agent. She told me that in the past year they had only sold 7 properties 
However, you got to look at what good times they have had in the last ten years!!
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rob@rar,
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Isn't it much the same as here in the UK
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Agreed. I bought my present house nearly 13 years ago, and I'm certainly not sweating too much over the decrease in value over the last 6 months.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, Mmmhh 30% is a massive drop compared to the last official figures around here ( perhaps 2 months ago??) and it was headline news with prices falling by 1 or 2 % year - on - year ... however undoubtedly there isnt the churn of 2 years ago. Perhaps it is just a 'second-home'/'resort' blip in France?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Agenterre wrote: |
| rob@rar, Mmmhh 30% is a massive drop compared to the last official figures around here |
I might be wildly off, especially as I pay almost no notice of prices, so that's just a gut feel from what neighbours have said or the occasional glance in estate agent's windows. It's also for holiday property in a high altitude resort, so maybe bigger prices rises and bigger price falls than 'normal' property? The €/m2 price we paid in Dec '02 was around 3,300 IIRC. A similar size apartment in our block sold a couple of years ago for €8,500 /m2. All a bit mad, and nothing more than academic interest for us as we have no plans to sell our place.
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