 Poster: A snowHead
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.....did all the ski racers immediately change to the newer (better) skis? Was there a period where various skiers raced others using the old or new technology? I suppose FIS regulations would have had some bearing on what skis were allowed in races. Did everybody pounce on the new skis and their different techniques or was there resistance from some of the older types? Does anyone recall the evolution/revolution?
(too many questions, I know....)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hywel, the significant thing about the short carving ski is that it was invented for the recreational market (I'd have to check dates, but it's the early-mid 1990s), viewed sceptically at first, and eventually jumped upon by the 'race scientists'.
Elan and Kneissl were the first manufacturers to enter the domain, with Elan particularly innovative and radical in their approach.
Initial credit for sidecut must go to Sondre Norheim, the 19th century Norwegian skier who is - by legend - the man who realised how a ski could turn more efficiently by putting a 'waist' into its design. http://www.sondrenorheim.com
Historically, changes in ski design, materials and technology have been innovated for the racing community - since ski makers tend to concentrate their R+D in their race departments - rather than for the recreational market. However, sometimes - as in the change from traditional sandwich manufacture to 'cap' or 'monocoque' ski construction (viz: the Salomon ski, first launched in 1990) - changes are made to simplify and reduce the manufacturing process.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 30-01-05 21:15; edited 2 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hywel, I don't know the answer to all the questions, but of course the parabolic ski came out first, and I'm pretty sure they all changed onto them immediately. For the very short (slalom) carving skis I'm not sure - I think one or two older racers held out for a while - but then the courses were being built for these skis, so they did all have to go as you wouldn't be able to get an old pair around the turns nowadays.
Several racers seemed to have some problems with adjusting their technique (can't offhand remember who though). PG might know more than me!
Excellent questions though 
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David Goldsmith, I think it was Frank Meatto from the USA who is widely acknowledged as being the "inventor" of the fist deep side-cut ski in the mid 80's. It was discounted as being far too radical and unlikely to catch on! Until, that is, it started to gain attention in the early 90's. Funny to think that now there is a generation of skiers that have known nothing else - me included!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's an interesting area of ski science because it had a prelude in the 1970s when 'compact', 'freestyle' and 'ballet' skis swept the market. They were mainly 160cm to 180cm long but the sidecut wasn't as pronounced as the carvers we've seen in recent years.
During the 1980s and 1990s ski lengths were generally 10cm to 30cm longer than we're seeing today or in the 1970s, but some skiers today have taken huge cuts from what they previously skied: lots of experts have cut from over 200cm to under 170cm. Quite a revolution!
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easiski, I distinctly remember that not all racers took well to the new skis. At the time that Deborah Compagnoni was cleaning up everything that was there to be cleaned on her Dynastar carvers, Katja Seizinger resolutely refused to switch to Voelkl's new P30RC, claiming that the ski didn't make her any faster. I also remember all the discussions about the safety of shaped skis in downhill racing, culminating in a frenzy of accusations directed at the ski manufacturers when Ulli Meier was killed on the Candahar in Garmisch. It only much later transpired that in fact Ulli had been skiing straight skis on that day!
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I now ski on 176s, and I'm pretty sure that I used to ski on longer skis when I was 16.
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1989:207cm ==> 2005:175cm I make that about 2cm/yr lost. Although they have got 50% wider in that time 60mm => 90mm.
At this rate by the time I'm 102 I'll be on Square skis!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Racers were slow to catch on. Bode Miller was one of the first, he raced on K2 fours because they had more sidecut than any race skis at that time.
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The Italian company TUA were making skis with pronounced sidecut before Elan I believe. I saw pairs when teaching ski school in Italy in the late 70's and early 80's
Their designer is now the designer behind G3 (Genuine Guide Gear) skis, I believe. G3 skis are made in Tunisia!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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colinmcc, now you've mentioned it, yes I do believe you're right. Maybe I should have put it that Elan proved the concept for the first time. The Kneissl Ergo didn't seem to cut the mustard in the way the Elan (can't remember the model name - SCX?) created a reputation for itself.
I never tried the Tua skis. Of course there's a lot more than just getting the outline shape of the ski right - the engineering has to work in all sorts of departments.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There's some pictures of some ski racers in the restaurant at the bottom of the Zerotta lift. They are holding very long skis with a reasonable (though not huge) side cut. The pictures look early 20th century and the skis are made of wood.
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Early skis definitely had more sidecut than the compacts - what a nightmare they were! I'm with skanky, on that one. However I feel that the materials that now go into ski manufacture have had as much influence as the shape of the ski. Even fats turn really well compared to a 1980's ski. Length / torsion / rigidity etc.
Length: 1992 = 200cm 1997 = 190 1999 = 170 2002 = 163 2005 = 155
I have skied regularly on skis as long as 207 and once tried a pair of downhill skis at 223! BTW I'm 165 myself.
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You know it makes sense.
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| BTW I'm 165 myself. |
And still skiing,.... 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The Penny Black
is 165 too.
Sidecut is relevant here, because it - the world's first postage stamp (1840) - preceded the invention of perforations, so its sides were cut.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 1-02-05 10:36; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ever tried carrying 190s on the tube? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I remember reading an article that suggested that one of the reasons for Alain Baxter's success as a World Cup skier was that he was one of the first slalom skiers to adapt properly to the short slalom skis, and that as the rest of the slalom race community got more used to them they moved back ahead of him again.
Don't know if there's any truth in that, though: maybe someone with more knowledge of racing could comment?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skanky, I once had to cross London (in the rush hour) with a skibag containing 3 pairs of skis - can't remember the length but they must have been around 2m. None of the commuter ba***rds moved out of the way to help me at all.
Acacia, I don't think that's really true. Alain was at the top of his game for 2 seasons (just out of the medals at the World Champs the year before the Olymics) , and according to his coach and his mum the problem is currently with confidence rather than ski-ing technique. When I've seen him on TV this year he seems to be ski-ing as well as anyone and then make a sily mistake - lack of focus perhaps?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski, they hated you for it. Some of it was jealousy, some of it was snobbery.
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1996 after 1 week on the snow bought my first pair of skis - 180cm Rossignol DV Cruise (pretty much straight skis)
1998 178cm K2 Black Magic, Salomon 90cm Snowblades
2001 181cm K2 Axis X Pro, Fischer 99cm Spyders
2004 176cm Salomon 3V, 179cm K2 Seth Pistol
2005 170cm Head iXRC 1100SW (still have the Pistols and Spyders)
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