 Poster: A snowHead
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Can anyone tell me what the BASI equivalent of CSIA Level 1 is?
Is it the top award or the bottom.
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, bottom. CSIA L1 is the entry level qualification.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cheers for that. Thats all I needed as wasn't sure.
Many thanks
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Wayne, AFAIUI it qualifies someone to teach beginner children in the kindergarten in Canada and nothing else. It's not recognised by many as it's basically below or similar to L1 BASI which (as you know) doesn't allow you to teach on snow. CSIA have apparently withdrawn from the ISIA 'homologation' for want of a better phrase. No idea why.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| easiski wrote: |
| Wayne, AFAIUI it qualifies someone to teach beginner children in the kindergarten in Canada and nothing else. It's not recognised by many as it's basically below or similar to L1 BASI which (as you know) doesn't allow you to teach on snow. CSIA have apparently withdrawn from the ISIA 'homologation' for want of a better phrase. No idea why. |
Pretty sure it's above the BASI 1 - beginner adults up to parallel, kids up to Canadian standard blues. Definitely not a babysitting qualification. BASI 1 is a renamed ASSI isn't it?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If anyone could clear up the CSIA3/ISIA thing that'd be good though - I'm sure I read it early in 08 but can't find anything in writing now...
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| DaveC wrote: |
| ....BASI 1 is a renamed ASSI isn't it? |
I was told the BASI 1 (Trainee Instructor) course was ripped-off the ASSI syllabus. When I did my ASSI if you did well enough you got an exemption from the BASI 1, although I believe that has been recinded since BASI had their spat with Snowsport Scotland etc.
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CSIA level 1 is the entry level instructor qualification, however, it does entitle you to teach on snow. (country permitting) BASI level 1 does not permit unsupervised teaching on snow. You'll need BASI 2 to do that.
CSIA level 3 no longer carries a ISIA stamp with the qualification, which has clearly pished alot of people off! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| GreyCat wrote: |
CSIA level 1 is the entry level instructor qualification, however, it does entitle you to teach on snow. (country permitting) BASI level 1 does not permit unsupervised teaching on snow. You'll need BASI 2 to do that.
CSIA level 3 no longer carries a ISIA stamp with the qualification, which has clearly pished alot of people off! |
Bit of a shame, considering I can't imagine I'll ever go for my CSIA 4 - a bridge too far for mortals, I think... I'm hoping the lack of ISIA won't dent international recognition too much though, was planning on pushing for it over the next season (or two, or as many as it takes) and then doing a season in Japan as soon as I have it...
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Having experience of both CSIA & BASI, I would say the skiing level for both is pretty much the same, CSIA has a higher teaching emphasis, while the BASI slightly higher technical. CSIA L1 is a snow qualification, whereas BASI L1 is dry slope/snowdome only. CSIA has no First Aid requirement, nor Child Protection Module, CRB Disclosure Checks.
spyderjon, a 1 day conversion from ASSI to BASI L1 is still possible, if the criteria are met.
DaveC, I think it's to do with CSIA L3 not meeting the extra requirements that ISIA require for their stamp. The CSIA having over 30,00 members, they can pretty much do what they want anyway and aren't too bothered with European requirements.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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From what I've gathered from CSIA and a few ski schools...
CSIA I is above BASI I - as mentioned previously, adults up to early parallel in a mountainous environment (unlike BASI I which is for in a controlled environment).
CSIA II is pretty much equivalent to BASI II from what I've gathered from those who've done it and those who I've previously contacted regarding temporary employment. (Interski accept CSIA I on the same basis as BASI II as both are designed for mountainous environments - some of the guys I was working with in Italy this year were just given their BASI II when the British system changed - not that it matters now I've got my II  ).
CSIA III is slightly below BASI ISIA - hence it's loss of ISIA status (it's where the extra BASI modules come into play, I think).
Then CSIA IV is equivalent to ISIA now, though I gather they will be putting into place at some point a system of extra modules whereby the extra bits and pieces can be tested for ISTD equivalence.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hi all
Thanks for all that. Really wasn't trying to start off a CSIA v BASI thing. Background is that we have a job advert running on Natives for resort reps and instructors (will run an advert in BASI news later in the year). We have had one guy applying for work as a ski guide - on this point we never employ ski guides so we wouldn't have offered him that type of job anyway. But I didn't know about the CSIA levels and though that a "1" may be the same as an ISTD and so we could have offered him a teaching role (we need about 10 to 15 high season teachers for UK clients). But as you have all said that a level 1 is no use, then we can't offer him a job and have written to him telling him this.
Just a personal point of teacher qualifications. We get apps from lots of different people from different counties with the qualifications from their own country but I really don't understand em. I do understand BASI stuff so I think that anyone without BASI (min L2) I will just ask em to contact the school direct.
I don't get paid for this and I only do it as a favor to the director as am the only 1st language English teacher in the school.
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Wayne,
I understand the BASI levels are to be renamed;
Level 1 Controlled enviroment. Why is a nursery slope in a ski resort not a controlled enviroment?
Level 2 On snow qualification (in some countries)
Level 3 Current ISIA
Level 4 Current ISTD
Does anybody know where ISIA 'stamp' & 'card' fit?
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You know it makes sense.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
Wayne,
I understand the BASI levels are to be renamed |
Again? I can barely keep up!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
Wayne,
I understand the BASI levels are to be renamed;
Level 1 Controlled enviroment. Why is a nursery slope in a ski resort not a controlled enviroment?
Level 2 On snow qualification (in some countries)
Level 3 Current ISIA
Level 4 Current ISTD
Does anybody know where ISIA 'stamp' & 'card' fit? |
You missed out the soon to be renamed Senior UK Instructor or BASI 1.5. I think it's going to be Level 2 UK
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Poster: A snowHead
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from what i was led to believe [told directly by a BASI Trainer who was at the ISIA conference two weeks ago] the canadians have pulled out of ISIA as it is "not relevent to THEIR qualification"
i pitty all the people who have gone through the system and have been right royally shafted by their governing body...is ther grounds to claim back some of your course fees if you did CSIA with the intention of getting the ISIA stamp
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Does anybody know where ISIA 'stamp' & 'card' fit?
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BASI current ISIA = stamp
BASI current ISTD = card
CSIA does not have a mountain safety course as part of their III so have been stripped of ISIA status for their training programme.
The newer CARD DOES require a timed GS test (ISIA Test Technique), second language and mountain security training inorder for a nations top training level to be valid. BASI ISTD will qualify for a Card
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Quote: |
Does anybody know where ISIA 'stamp' & 'card' fit?
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BASI current ISIA = stamp
BASI current ISTD = card
The newer CARD DOES require a timed GS test (ISIA Test Technique), second language and mountain security training inorder for a nations top training level to be valid. BASI ISTD will qualify for a Card |
The CARD does not require a second language.
What i am really asking is 'What is the point of the CARD' ?? Where does it fit?? Level 3.5 ?
BASI ISTD will qualify but ISTD already includes a higher technical element, teaching, etc etc
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Why is a nursery slope in a ski resort not a controlled enviroment? |
Nursery slopes = controled 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stewart woodward, I believe that both the card and stamp require second language. The card and stamp are meant to be granted to professional bodies whose training standards meet the ISIA minimum standards, which BASI's training programmes already exceed. The CSIA for instance would need to add additional training courses for their programmes to qualify, they have opted not to as the Stamp is not important for their market.
As a temporary arrangement
Snow sports instructors with the highest national training from the following countries already meet the ISIA minimum standard for the ISIA card:
Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Japan, Great Britain, Italy, Holland, Spain, Switzerland.
Other member nations have two years to implement the Stamp level of standards within their respective training programmes, if they do not comply their status within ISIA will become "observers" and not full members.
I think the point is that ISIA is developing a set of universally recognised global standards. The ISTD was an attempt at this within the EuroGroup countries independent of ISIA. ISIA is now rolling out a similar set of mutually recognised qualifications globally
I have also heard a rumour that ISIA will be maintaining a database of all holders of the Stamp and Card so that ski schools can swiftly determine if you are properly qualified.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's all politics I believe, for ISIA to be taken seriously internationally they need to enforce their own minimum standards which until recently they haven't been doing (eg CSIA 3 having ISIA stamp without an off piste course). So member countries who are not currently meeting the standards have been told to change their system or lose the stamp, CSIA chose the latter.
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beanie1, is the off piste course a back country trip with full kit or just 'not on the piste' ie some mixed conditions skiing between runs? The nature of Canadian skiing v European skiing could have a lot do with this then again I could be wrong 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think it would be considered back country, ie being able to navigate and lead a group safely, anywhere other than a glacier. It's all about mountain safety and skiing safely off piste, rather than technical off piste skiing.
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beanie1, thanks for the clarification. I still think the fact that Canadian resort skiing isn't limited to groomed runs or staying within the markers could be the reason for the non-requirement of off piste training. For the most part the instructors I have come across would not dare venture outside the resort boundary line and rightly so.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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arv, I'm sure you're right, for CSIA instructors working in Canada their current system would seem to cover all the bases. It's only a problem for those who went the CSIA route but hoped to be able to spend some time working elsewhere, and now find they don't have the ISIA stamp so limiting the recognition of their qualifications. I know a few who are somewhat hacked off, as it means having to swap systems.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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arv, as beanie1 said for ISIA level - see [b]The FlyingStantoni[b]'s thread on it some way back for what it entailed. For ISTD, AIUI, it also requires a certain number of logged backcountry hours (e.g. touring) - I was once on a day tour with Emma C-A when she was having to clock up the hours to get her ISTD.
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| arv wrote: |
| beanie1, is the off piste course a back country trip with full kit or just 'not on the piste' |
The course is an introduction to mountain safety leadership, which takes you outside (Euro) resort boundaries, where you are expected to navigate from topo maps, understand snowpack and weather concerns and lead your group safely, using skins and crampons, but not ropework. The best thing I got out of the course is an understanding of how little I know.
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You know it makes sense.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| arv, as beanie1 said for ISIA level - see [b]The FlyingStantoni[b]'s thread on it some way back for what it entailed. For ISTD, AIUI, it also requires a certain number of logged backcountry hours (e.g. touring) - I was once on a day tour with Emma C-A when she was having to clock up the hours to get her ISTD. |
Six days of full day-tours must be logged between the first part of the course and the assessment.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| I think it would be considered back country, ie being able to navigate and lead a group safely, anywhere other than a glacier. It's all about mountain safety and skiing safely off piste, rather than technical off piste skiing. |
Really? Seems a lot to ask. I wouldn't want to take clients in the backcountry under the umbrella of a resort ski school under any circumstance - that's why there're guiding qualifications. ARV's interpretation makes a lot more sense to me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DaveC wrote: |
| Really? Seems a lot to ask. I wouldn't want to take clients in the backcountry under the umbrella of a resort ski school under any circumstance - that's why there're guiding qualifications. ARV's interpretation makes a lot more sense to me. |
Indeed, which is why BASI stress that this is an introductory course only. It also stresses that national, regional and even local regulations take precedence, regardless of whether you feel you are qualified to lead groups into the backcountry as a result of doing this course.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DaveC, Many European ski schools and some European law won't allow you to anyway, it's more about safety. As rob@rar, said the course really taught me what I don't know! Personally I wouldn't dream of taking a group more off piste than a slope between the pistes, I just wouldn't be up to it. However in Canada "off piste" is very different to "off piste" in Europe as I understand it. Anywhere "off the piste" in Europe, even the bits in between the piste requires knowledge of mountain safety as you would learn on these courses. It's different in Canda as everywhere within the resort area boundary can be skied, is that right?
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beanie1, yeh that is correct unless it is a closure (obviously).
DaveC, have you done Avy 1? It is quite basic but a worth while couple of days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| It's different in Canda as everywhere within the resort area boundary can be skied, is that right? |
Yes & no
Lets assume we exclude permanent closures and the very occasional inbounds avy, you still have narrow traverses, cliff areas, stream beds, tree wells, deadfall, stumps and the many trees themselves to deal with in inbounds terrain plus terrain traps for the unwary. So a high level instructor would at least have as many factors to deal with as one instructing off piste in Europe in most cases apart from commitment/time to be rescued.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, in that case why isn't there a mountain safety course for instructors in their system?
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| arv wrote: |
DaveC, have you done Avy 1? It is quite basic but a worth while couple of days. |
Yep, was a good course. Probably the main reason I'd never want to take full responsibility for a group out of bounds 
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arv, is avy 1 part of the L2 or L3 license or?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, just an extra course. Not part of the others. The only prerequisite for L2 is L1, not sure about 3.. L4 I think you need Level 2 race coach, not sure.
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arv, i was just wondering as i heard that a lack of mountain safety courses was a big reason the ISIA was taken away, if you have an avi course youd think they could make it a full MS course.
I did hear that CSIA was looking to come up with additional modules for L3's and L4's so that they can qualify for the ISIA rating but not require a "standard" L3 to do em if the instructor isnt interested in the ISIA stamp.
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FAQ
