 Poster: A snowHead
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More food for thought and discussion:
Why (assuming suitable slopes) do so many instructors these days miss out completely on the straight running phase with beginners? I find this very odd as it's during this part of the first lesson that the students find their sliding balance, lose their initial nerves and so on. Once they're balanced, moving on to snowplough is simple and usually takes no time at all.
People teaching in most scottish resorts would be excepted (Been there, done that, fought for the one patch on Cairngorm where it's possible)!  However most alpine resorts do have flat areas where people can slide without having to stop themselves. Most dry slopes have a return also for this purpose. Even here, where we have masses of room, I constantly see instructors going straight to plough after a cursory bit of skating around on one foot or walking and pushing. This includes british, french, italian and german instructors that I've seen and one Canadian.
I can't see the logic, since the classes end up in the same place at the end of lesson 1, but with straight running they're balanced and with straight to snowplough they tend not to be nearly so well balanced. Lots and lots of fun things to do, competitions can be used, imagination, and there are lots of things such as hopping, walking, stepping round a corner etc which set the student up well for the skills to be learnt in the first week.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, I've tried to stick with straight running as long as I can to try and get them balanced on the centre of their skis. Catching games (throwing them your glove), jumps and hops, etc, can help keep everyone having fun. But there is pressure to move on, including clients themselves, especially if all you have is 90 minutes one-off 'taster session'.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Like most things in life these days everyone wants it and wants it now.
In my time if you wanted something expensive you saved for it then bought it and valued that possession. Now as soon as the youngsters get to 17 they buy the car on credit, then the 125% mortgage - a couple of loans and a few store cards later they owe £100,000 they cant pay back. Then they get one of those arrangements where 75% of the debt is written off and away they go again.
This is the way young folk work - they want to ski all over the mountain NOW not after at lot of work t get the right skills to go all over the mountain safely but NOW - to hell with who they knock over or into in the process.
Sorry for the rant but its the current INSTANT and throwaway society we live in.
MORE IMPORTANTLY - there a lots of folk out there who just do not understand that getting it right at the beginning is so important in skiing. You only have to ask why we give the least experienced instructors to the beginner classes. Beginners need and deserve the very best instruction if they are to progress easily.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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deleted
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 8-05-09 15:54; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fred, it was rubbish the first time. No need to repeat it.
On the topic of the OP, I would suggest that there is a fashion for control of speed being the essence, so that is where the instructors start.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| fred wrote: |
| Like most things in life these days everyone wants it and wants it now. |
| beequin wrote: |
| fred, it was rubbish the first time. No need to repeat it. |
Maybe. Great song, though.
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easiski, cos modern skis don't go in straight lines so well? 
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easiski, I agree straight running is valuable, and I think it comes down to the ground you have to work on as to how long you might spend on it.
On plastic I'd tend to spend more time doing straight running than on snow, (ground depending).
One of the issues I find 'on snow' is that unless you can find a nicely shaped run out so that the client stops at an appropriate point, the fitness of the clients (or not) takes it's toll when they have to walk \ side step back up, and of course the altitude makes it harder for them. It would be good to see more travelators (?) on very easy ground to help with this. Most of the ones I see demand the client to be able to ski linked snowplough arcs to be safe.
Plastic is not so bad as it's just not as slippy.
(sorry about the spelling )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| beequin wrote: |
fred,
On the topic of the OP, I would suggest that there is a fashion for control of speed being the essence, so that is where the instructors start. |
Exactly, it obvious that these instructors do not understand that the skills one works with their pupils straight running will make the control of speed easier than if you go straight to the control of speed bit.
Is this lack of understanding because it is inexperienced instructors doing the teaching.
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fred, I agree, it was just the 'yoof of today' bit I would take issue with.
But, is it inexperienced instructors who are at fault - perhaps the instructors should be trained to do things 'the right way" so it is those running the training courses who are to blame and lack of experience is not the problem.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, Taster lessons are a bit different, I agree. However people can have so much fun straight running - don't forget we do it at 3,400m in summer. 
fred, I actually don't agree with you. I don't think it has anything to do with the throwaway society etc. I think it has to do with client expectations, which can be managed if the instructors can be bothered.
david@mediacopy, I did say in the OP "assuming suitable slopes". Side stepping is an essential edging skill.
beequin, It isn't just inexperienced teachers though - I see it weekly with lots who should know better. Surely they must be trained to do it - it's in all the progressions!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I well recall being strapped both feet on the snowboard and straight running down the nursery slope at Milton Keynes, on the "Learn to Snowboard in a Day" course. There was only one way it was going to end..... but I suppose it didn't do us any harm.
It's a very good point that easiski has raised here. I was skiing with friends in our area last month, after their lesson. One of them (the wife, otherwise far more nervous) was quite happy to let her skis run, provided she could see that she was headed somewhere safe whereas he was constitutionally unable to do it - he just kept ploughing, and in places where I'd told them they'd have to walk unless they let their skis run a bit, he walked. They had had the same lessons with the same instructor. She had a naturally superb position on her skis (the instructor, who we know quite well, couldn't get over it) but he was awful - absolutely no ankle bend and stiff as a rod. she could turn well, albeit cautiously, but was really freaked out if a slope looked even a tiny bit steep. She was also very unfit and got exhausted doing nothing. He was much fitter, less scared of a bit of a slope (I had assured him, rightly, that he was good at turning) but absolutely unable to just let his skis run. Their reaction was very uncharacteristic of them as people - he's much more confident and competitive. But she would sometimes start her straight running some distance before I'd recommended it and consequently went scarily fast (for her liking, and my peace of mind) at times but because she didn't panic, and her basic position was so good, she'd recover it.
They'd had the same lessons, but their personalities - and not in an obvious way - also seemed to have a big role to play in whether they could - or would - do straight running. Age has a bearing, too. Kids don't seem to have any problem with straight running - quite the reverse.
I've noticed skiing with other, more experienced, friends that people's willingness to let their skis run seems sometimes to have little relationship with their basic skills. I have one friend who really isn't too competent, and who struggles turning on steep slopes (in fact she won't go on steep slopes) but will run faster down an easy blu e slope than I will - and her husband, heavier and braver, goes quite a bit faster than I will, though I can ski a fair bit better than either of them. Down a trickier red slope I'd go a fair bit quicker than them. Maybe it's because of our history - they have had few lessons and ski around with their son (who is a natural, and very competent) whereas I have had loads of lessons and had the need for control drummed into me. I am also a control freak in every day life. 
The question of "fitness" is probably very apt - I do recall years ago doing straight running and side stepping back up the hill and doing it again, for what seemed ages. But I was 16 - and on skis far higher than my head. Those were the days.
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Not sure I've seen anyone doing this actually, certainly all the (mainly British but some Canadian and Slovakian) instructors working around the beginner slope near me this season were teaching straight running. It's not easy if the terrain doesn't have a flat run out, but there are ways round it (eg me skiing backwards in front of them and stopping them - as long as slope is gentle anf they're not going too fast). If you introduce snowplough too early it's hard to get some of them out of it again!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
If you introduce snowplough too early it's hard to get some of them out of it again!
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Ah yes - sounds like that's what happened to my friend - or at any rate, that he latched on to it, never to relax his grip. Maybe "ski evolutif" has something to be said for it after all!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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OK, make this thread make sense for me please and explain exactly what is covered in 'straight running' - at the moment I think the term could cover a number of different things and I'm not entirely certain which apply
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, sliding with skis parallel, using appropriate terrain to slow down and stop - ie very gentle slope with flat run out.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, bobsleigh for white folks 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, thank you!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Megamum, But it also covers a number of balance exercises that you would do with beginners, some mentioned by rob@rar, earlier. The exercises you can do in straight running are only limited by your imagination really. Try the 'superman' (I'll leave that to your imagination), toe touching, 'walking' as your sliding, oh - hundreds ....
beanie1, Very encouraging. Only too true about the snowplough.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| easiski wrote: |
| david@mediacopy, I did say in the OP "assuming suitable slopes". Side stepping is an essential edging skill. |
No disagreement here 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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we did one with a (cross country) instructor which involved looking over our shoulders to shout which colour glove she was holding up (she had gloves with a white palm and a black back). As we were in the grooves we couldn't cheat. Was good in getting us less rigid.
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easiski, the common factor amongst all of these instructors (working for INterski) is that say 80% of them probably passed their exams this season or have limited experience - maybe they're still following the text book progression and have yet to get "lazy"?
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Frosty the Snowman, 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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From a different perspective... when my mate and my good self took our first 3 day course at Sunshine in Canada... on our 3rd day we went right to the top of the mountain, picked a line between a black mogul field and a red run that had a massive flat run out... and just headed straight down it. We had been taught a lot about balance... so even when the skis started chattering and bouncing at speed we kept the line and then the terrain slowed us down with no need to hockey stop or even attempt to skid a turn. Although we felt out of control there were no people ahead of us that we could possibly have hit... and the confidence this gave us allowed us to take further lessons where speed increased with no worry. Letting newbie skiers have the odd high speed blast with a very safe and flat run-out area doesn't half increrase confidence. This was from the point of view of a pair of mountain fit 30 something males so may not work for all folk... but it really hit our spot.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum,  (have you been on the Red Stuff?)
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sat 9-05-09 17:42; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| ... go faster I skied better - new idea - this may be in part that at the higher speed there is less time for me to think about things (which is fatal for my skiing LOL). |
It's very hard to ski well at a slow speed. Balance, in particular, is much more difficult when you don't have much momentum to work with.
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum, ah, I was thinking about something else (note to self: don't post after a trip to the pub!)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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easiski, Lack of insight/understanding from junior instructors why these apparently really simple and straightforward excersizes are so useful?
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Poster: A snowHead
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FAQ
LOL) When the speed issue was removed from my control (when I skied with 