 Poster: A snowHead
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Right, so me and Mrs NB are heading to NZ for the season in about 1 month! We intend to stay there for atleast 3 months doing nothing but skiing! we have both bought our own skis and boots which we pick up on arrival and these will be set up, serviced and ready to go.
My question is, as we will be using them nearly every day over a 3-4 month period, how often will they need to be serviced? Will the din settings need to be tightened often and wax applied etc?
Cost is a big thing for us as we've pretty much spent every penny getting there, staying there, buying skis and ski passes and could do without any additional costs. Do you think this is something I could do myself? Or is it something so irregular it could only need being done once or twice in a 4 month period and best left to the experts?
Any help, guides etc appreciated.
NB
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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www.jonsskituning.co.uk good ski tuning resource. You could book into one of his tuning courses or get his tuning instructional DVD
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Or I could do a tuning course and be a sort of 'ski nanny' for you? 
Have a great trip, sounds fab.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Depends how obsessive you are. Some would say do nothing.
A lot of people would suggest that you need to get the skis waxed and edged once a fortnight, but once a month may suffice if you buy a small tool http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/quick-sharp-pocket-edge-tuner-24172883 to run over the skis once a week and put on something lilke zardoz or a rub-on wax every four or five days.
DIN settings may not need to change, though if you improve you may want to put them up a notch or two. Only a screwdriver needed, but almost any shop will do that for you for free.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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NomadicBoo, Your bindings will be set by the store & theoretically won't need changing. However it's likely that your DIN chart criteria might change during the 3 months, ie you progressively ski faster & more difficult terrain which may require higher settings. I'd recommend familiarising yourself with the make/model/adjustment of your bindings in advance which actually very straightforward.
Maintaining your own skis is also very straightforward & has the added benefit of producing better results with a lot less material removal than the machine servicing offered by shops. However it does require some financial outlay but you will be saving a lot in servicing costs. You're going to need to regularly maintain your edges which could be daily if snow was very hard to say fortnightly if there's plenty of soft fresh. You'll need to wax them regularly, usually anything from 4/5 days to a couple of weeks depending on the conditions & how well they've been prepped. It would also be handy for you to be able to make localised base repairs etc.
From a cost point of view the first thing to do is to check whether you have access to vices & an iron at your accommodation as that will save a significant cost. Lets say you only have eight shop services on two pairs of skis @ £20 each which would total £320. You can get an excellent basic tuning kit for under £100 excluding vices & an iron. A vice set & iron would be about another £115 but you'd still be on the right side. For the amount of waxing you're going to be doing I'd recommend getting a pucka waxing iron.
BTW, if you've ordered boots to collect there I assume that you've skied the same make/model/size here so you know they'll be ok?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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NomadicBoo, when I bought my own skis at the beginning of my first season in France the shop serviced them as often as I wanted during the season without charging. They did it for the second season as well. It might be worth checking with the shop you're buying them from (if it's based in a resort you'll be staying in) whether they do any deals for those who are there for the season.
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On the other hand, you might just buy a pair because they were on sale in the summer and wear them for seven seasons without a problem.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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NomadicBoo, I was quite anal about looking after my board before doing a season,however, as the season went on I got progressively less bothered to the point where I wasn't even filling in core shots! If you ride nearly everyday for 3 months you will trash your skis (especially off piste) and most likely the worst damage will be the day after you've spent a couple of hours fixing the last holes!
That said sharp edges are always nice if it's icy, there's nothing quite like riding hard pack on an edge that's spent the last couple of days trying to chop tree roots! So a couple of files, guide and gummistone are useful. As for wax I went from using it every week to every 6 weeks and the difference was hardly noticeable apart from the time I got the base stone ground with structure first: that made it a lot faster.
Most importantly have fun, I got back 3 days ago! It was one of the best things I've ever done and I'm trying to work out how to afford the next one. I'm very jealous!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, with 19 core shots I definitely had less contact area 
This thread has reminded me to do my edges before giving gorilla his file back!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Its funny how folks differ on Waxing and sharpening. I azardoz twice a day and can noting the difference. and wax about every 3 days and can DEFINATELY notice the improvement. I run a diamond edge tool twice a day if its icy and every couple of days if its not
Thing is I'm not the worlds best skier and am not doing anything extrame and yet I can definately feel the difference. And can see it against the people I ski with when I can glide much easier and pole far less on the flat
Personally I would spend the £100 on a basic kt from Spyderjon and would definately recommenend his tuition. That way you can tune as much as you want while away for almost zero cost. Its also very satisfying to do your own tuning
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| On the other hand, you might just buy a pair because they were on sale in the summer and wear them for seven seasons without a problem. |
That would be more luck than judgement. The chances of a boot fitting well bought without trying first are minimal. Boots make more difference to your skiing and comfort than any other piece of kit. It's the one thing you really want to get right at whatever cost.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks for all the tips guys. I think, as I will definitely not have access to vices and an iron that I will just use the local store. As I have bought a season pass I get some pretty decent discount offers and I think I'f I leave the servicing for every 4 weeks I should be able to afford it. I will definitely learn about DIN settings though as I do plan on progressing dramtically over the 3 months or so!
As for boots, we've selected the same make and model as least season and they will fit them when we get there. Very excited! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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NomadicBoo, For trips I take an edge angle guide, a base angle guide, 3 diamond files, one hard stone and a gummi stone. You can get that whole lot from spyderjon as said above and you can easily do your skis balanced between 2 chairs in 15 - 20 minutes. Do that every week and your edges should stay nice and sharp and never need major filing 
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Poster: A snowHead
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NomadicBoo, you will end up not doing it as often as you should. I tend to touch up the main skis I use after a particularly bad thrashing or when the snow conditions changed. You can get by with less gear but the set up below meant I spent a grand total of 20 euros in ski shops over five months. This was mainly on fixing things that will not ever go wrong with your skis. It is a spend now save later kind of situation. You can also drink beer and inhale fumes from the wax/ptex at the same time.
For France this season I took and used:
- brake retainers (critical - but can use a biro or other rigid object if pushed)
- 1 set swix ski vices (spendy but nice to have if you are doing serious edge work)
- 1 side edge file guide - 2 deg (better than the adjustable tools, which IMV are f'n useless)
- 1 Fitzwilliam file
- 1 400 grit diamond file (spendy but get a good one)
- cold snow wax (irrelevant use universal instead)
- warm snow wax (much more useful and noticable in spring conditions)
- brush
I nicked of Swirly
- 1 gummi stone
- ptex candles
- alu oxide stone
- scraper (metal - the plastic ones are less use + you can use the metal one to fix the base)
- brass brush
- wax iron (I have a Morphy Richards travel job, which is not as good but more than adequate - if you go this route then ensure you get one with no steam function and hence no holes in the base)
This is worth a watch but I wouldn't treat my own gear like this: http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z240/ColoradoSkiPosse/Ski%20Tech%20Stuff/?action=view¤t=qandp.flv
It does, though show how much stuff you really can get away with.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Note that the board's profanity filter censors b+st+rd file such that what I wrote makes no sense. Is there a less profane term for Fitzwilliam file?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Is there a less profane term for Fitzwilliam file?
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Bas*ard File, B*****d File
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Scarpa, if you ride back to P1 at La Grave a few times I can guarantee you'll want to run a big file over them, nothing like tree roots!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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RPF, F*tzw*ll*am file or bastard file 
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Swirly, It's the rocks that I worry about... on skis I can usually lift a leg or hop over the roots
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Fitzwilliam
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Scarpa, how'd you get it to do that 
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Scarpa, rocks just add structure
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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RPF, bold & unbold next to each other in the middle of the word 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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alex_heney, Or change some letter's font colour from auto to black 
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You know it makes sense.
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NomadicBoo, It sounds likley that you didn't get the edges sharpened correctly, so they are not biting when you put the skis on edge.
Neither option is likely to be right, depending on your skis - most will be designed for a sharper edge than that (Atomics default to 3 - which I believe means an 87 degree angle between the base and the side). Note also that the file should be taking material off the side edge, not the base, in general. You should only be filing the base when there are significant "dinks" in it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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alex_heney, thanks for the info. I think the problem is that I really don't have a clue what I am doing and likely ruining my skis for good . So with the bases facing me I assume I would just run the tool along the edge? Or with the edge facing me? This is all very confusing. If only there was a step by step laymans guide?!?!
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Poster: A snowHead
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NomadicBoo, when you say you have no grip I assume you mean sideways? So yes you could well have very blunt edges, or were you on a more than usually hard piste?
As alex_heney implies, "0.5 and 1" sounds like it's a base-edge tool rather than a side-edge tool. For side I would expect to see numbers like 1,2,3 or 89, 88, 87. 87 (or 3) is quite aggressive, but is what I set my skis to; 88 (or even 90) is more common for intermediate/beginner/general-purpose level skis. Do you have a link/pic to the tool you've got? As you'd expect base guides tend to hold the file flattish against the guiding area, whereas side guides have the file held sort of at right angles to a guiding surface. That guiding surface then runs along the base and holds the file against the side-edge. Make sure that guiding surface is held firmly against the base when you do this to ensure you get a consistent angle - if it wobbles you'll do more harm than good.
You should do the edging before the waxing. And yes, on snow you should scrape all he surface wax off, and then use a stiff brush to brush the wax out of the striations in the structured base. If you keep a perfectly flat surface the ski will actually stick a bit due to surface tension - just like if you put two sheets of glass together with a bit of water between them. (On plastic there's not the same effect so you keep the base as smooth as possible).
For a tuning guide, try here: http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/category/5/14/34/
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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be careful with the iron just heat it enough to melt the wax you are working with and just pass it over the skis until you can just feel the heat on the underside. You might want to invest in a brass brush too. The scraper will get rid of mort of the wax but the brush will clear it out of the base structure.
Also check the type of wax you are using to make sure it is suitable for the snow conditions.
As long as you dont burn the bases you cant do much damage waxing but the edges need a bit more care if you blunt rather than sharpen or change the angle they will behave differently.
I would read through the site GrahamN, posted carefully before you do your next tune. You could also contact Spyderjon and try get a copy of his tuning DVD.
also www.tognar.com has some good guides
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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NomadicBoo, there's a few "how to" videos on youtube which could explain basics.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The Coombs tune is the real deal - shows how spyderjon has just been trying to have us over
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Getting right degree on base edges is much more important then getting right degree on side edge. Pretty much all behavior of skis depends on base edge (there's extremely huge difference between 0 and 0.5 degree on base), while there's not as much of difference between 87 or 85 degrees on side. So for edges, I would suggest you to find someone with a bit of knowledge for beginning. Sure waxing can be easily done at home, but for getting edges right, you need some experience. Next to that, skis should be waxed quite often, while edges need to be done only once in a while (at least for huge majority of skiers).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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primoz, I'll be sharpening my side edges about 8 times this week , and I assure you it's very noticeable if they're not that sharp.
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8 times a week? No offense but my only comment to this is, I rather go out skiing then spend days in wax room sharpening edges. I had enough of wax rooms when I was serviceman of our WC team.
But seriously... people on WC circuit don't get their skis sharpened 8 times a week. With todays tools, about once a week is more then enough, and a bit of "deburring" after every second training or in worse case, after every training. And this is meant for icy courses, and competitive skiing, not normal skiing on soft courses. My edges are done approximately once a month (half times I do it myself, other half I have luck to just leave skis with one of friends who are still in WC servicemen business), and I spend quite few days mostly on injected racing courses.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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OK, so it's not the most typical skiing in the world - racing on plastic. It's very noticeable that grip goes off after a single run - during practice it's OK for about an hour, but in an actual race you need to sharpen before each run. I have two races this week (tomorrow and Sunday, three runs each), and a couple of training/practice sessions.
spyderjon, it may be just a little bit too far out of his way to get to you; AFAIK he's in NZ at present.
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spyderjon, I think he's in New Zealand for the season, good as you are I think a trip back is unlikely
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FAQ
