 Poster: A snowHead
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I think a file is probably too coarse for recreational tuning.
Which diamonds should I get? The higher the grade, the finer, yes?
So, a 600 and a 200?
dmt or something similar?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I use a 100, 400 and 1500. You are correct regarding higher = finer. Take any dings out with a stone and then use a diamond with the appropriate angle guide. I often stick the skis across two chairs or similar. 5 mins work every couple of days keeps the edges very sharp.
The ones from Spyderjon seem to be better than some I've tried (Moonflex) http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/component/page,shop.browse/category_id,19/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,1/
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 14-04-09 23:48; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A 100 is practically a cutting file like an 8" isn't it?
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GordonFreeman, It is a little aggressive. Nowhere near that of a file though. I tend to use it for badly dinged edges or after changing the edge angle with files.
I reckon you won't go wrong with a 200 and 600. The 1500 just puts a fine polish on the edge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GordonFreeman, all depends what you want to achieve & how diligent you're gonna be in using them.
For dry slope use I'd recommend a medium metal file followed by a 100 & 400 as the dulling effect of the slope means you'll want more cutting.
For snow use the most popular twin combo's are a 200 & 600 or a 100 & 400. The coarser one for a bit more cutting & the finer one for polish. If you're diligent then a 200 will have enough cut to raise a v.slight hanging burr (meaning the edge is sharp) but if you're not that attentive or ski a lot on firm snow then a 100 would be better.
Note that a 100 is finer than the grade of cutter/belt that the skis manufacturer uses to finish the edge (on new skis you can easily see the diagonal cutting marks on the edge) so don't think that a 100 is too aggressive. If you just want to go for a single stone then either the 100 or 200 would be best.
Keen racer's/tuner's will tend to go the whole hog & have a set of 100, 200, 400, 600 & 1500 to get super smooth/sharp edges - the smoother they are the more durable the edge will be as there's less striations/high spots to burr over etc. The more grades you have the longer they'll last as they each get used less but that has to be balanced against the capital outlay.
DMT stones are shoite durability wise & waaay over priced but they're pretty flat & true. There's some very cheap diamond's on the market for just a few quid each but the one's I've seen were far from flat/true etc. Moonflex diamond files are the dog's danglies & well worth the extra cost down the line (you'll find my Moonflex prices waaay cheaper than anyone else's as I sell huge volumes & get a superb deal from the factory  ).
Whatever you use make sure you first deburr with an alu-oxide stone or the case hardened burrs will damage your metal & diamond files. Then use a gummi to remove the hanging burr.
Remember that all diamond files should be used wet, ie spit, water, snow etc, or better still an achohol based cutting fluid. This will greatly increase the life of the surface & floats away the debris for a smoother cut. Do not use an engineering type of fluid as these are oil based which'll clog the p-tex base.
For metal files avoid the old industry standard 'mill' & 'ba$tard cut' file as these are just waaay too aggressive for regular tuning - I only use them to do 90% of the work when changing side edge angle changes. Best to go for a medium/16cuts per cm file &, again if you're more diligent, a fine/20cuts per cm as well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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allanm, good edges needed for:
1. Bite on firm to icy slopes - in turns, and I think they may also help in side slips.
3. Icy steep traverses - I've been on some where I have been very grateful to the few cm of edge holding me from injury or even oblivion.
4. Good stopping power.
As I ski only 3 weeks a year, wear on the edges is really not an issue. Even if it were, I'd still sharpen them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| maybe on sheet ice, but who wants to ski/board that? |
Have you ever considered that it may not actually be sheet ice, rather your sheet edges? Sharp edges can help turn the first couple of hours of a morning in spring conditions from a pain to great fun.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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allanm, It might be a bit of a waste of cash paying for them to be done once a week though... much easier to do 'em yourself.
You are right though in that sharp edges won't help your skiing that much unless you can engage them with the surface. I'm still working on not skidding my tails 
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Intrestingly different manufacturers skis hold their edges for different times under the same conditions, my Head race department skis have edges that seem to stay sharp for ages (& Head in general seem to be better than average) whilst other skis seem to need resharpening on a far more frequent basis, from an engineering point of view this means Head are doing something different with their steel, most likely they are using a higher quality steel with slightly more carbon in it and probably a touch more chromium, the Carbon will ensure that the edge can be sharpened effectively but this has to be balenced with other addatives in the alloy because carbon also makes steel more brittle and more prone to rust
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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allanm, In her book 'the Centered Skier' Denise McCluggage includes the parable of the master chef who hasn't sharpened his knives in ten years because he knows how to butcher the ox and doesn't hack at meat, bone, or gristle. He did not, however, learn to do this by using -dull- knives during his apprenticeship.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| moffatross wrote: |
| Presumably the cuts per cm is the number of 'teeth' on the file rather than the depth of each shave. |
That is correct.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sideshow_Bob, Quick... copywrite that line and coin it in
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I could be wrong on this but i used to only use my diamond files as i was worried that i would take too much edge off but never felt my skis were particularily sharp.
After watching racers prep their skis i now routinely deburr and then take at least two passes with a fine file before getting a 200 diamond on my edges then move to the finer grits. I could never get em sharp enough when only using diamonds.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, you're right. For us UK flatlanders tuning here for week long trips it's easliy doable to keep the edges sharp enough in resort by deburring & diamond'ing alone, providing it's done often enough & the edges were sharp enough to start with. If it's a soft sonw week than apart from the odd rock ding you shouldn't have to touch 'em. Then when back home a med/fine can be used as required as you do.
The second most common question I'm asked is (after "do I need a proper waxing iron?") how do I know how much to file/stone? The answer is just till you feel the slight hanging burr on the junction of the base edge. I usually make full length passes with the metal file but it's often necessary to do a few isolated passes underfoot as this area blunts more than the tips'n'tails as that's were most of the pressure is applied. To avoid unnecessary filing I a few inches of edge underfoot a few passes with a 100 diamond & if a hanging burr isn't raise then the edge needs a file first. If I raise a burr then I'll just diamond the whole edge.
I can always tell a backseater as their edges are noticably more blunt under/behind the heel binding.
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spyderjon, phew... wasnt sure about that one...
slightly off topic but what is the best way to get rid of rust on the edges? i have been using a gummy block and then a 200 grit diamond. Silly boy i am i left a few pairs in the garage and they all rusted...
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FAQ
Edit ... D'oh I've just thought about it and probably just thick actually. 
