 Poster: A snowHead
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maggi,
Sound very familiar to my experience where did you go ??
We paid full (half term) prices and have written a letter of complaint with a compensation claim as I do not think we received what they advertise.
Whilst I can agree with some of the comments made on here I feel we were short changed for the money we paid 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kwakazx6r, Val Cenis. But I think it's probably the same this year on all their holidays. I've been with them before and this year it was much worse. I can't really blame the chalet staff as they have to pay resort prices in Euros with no equivalent rise in pay. So they do less work. Wouldn't anyone? The food and laundry/transfer costs have obviously been pared to the bone.
Good luck on getting anything back from them! If I had paid full half term prices I would be furious. In fact, if I had to go then, I would go independently. TOs are never "worth it" in half term.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We’ve had good and bad experiences with Crystal (Club Hotels and Hotels only - our experiences with Meriski in the late 1990s eventually put us off chalet holidays for ever).
In Italy, the food we had in Crystal’s Borgata Club Hotel was first class. The same season, the food we had in their Cervinia Cub Hotel was dire (same menu!). In France, during our return transfer at half-term in Feb 2006, when the snow storm hit the 3V area and disrupted everything, Crystal were superb, advised us to wait in the hotel, phoned hourly with updates and eventually picked us up 4 hours after schedule but still got us back to the correct UK airport. In December 2006, also in the 3V, the (presumably different) area manager insisted that the rep on the transfer bus had to get everyone who wasn’t buying a ski pass from Crystal to write and sign a note to justify this 
We’ve continued to use them since but have stopped going to the Club Hotels because the quality was too variable and in any event seemed to be in general decline. We have used them for non-TUI hotels because we can’t be bothered with the DIY bit and the prices are reasonable. The transfers seem to have improved over the years with less hanging around at the airports.
For us, the problems that Crystal (and other, for all I know) should address are the variable quality of the area managers (and reps, to a lesser extent) which impacts all areas of their service and the attempts to hard sell the add-ons.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| There have been some interesting posts re. Crystal recently. Personally, I've used them on 3 occasions and have found the trips ranged from awful in Chamonix to very, very average in Canazei. As Crystal are not cheap, why are we still using them in such numbers? Why are we prepared to accept such a mediocre level of service for our skiing holidays? |
I haven't read the rest of the tread yet, but I take issue with your "As Crystal are not cheap".
I have used crystal for three of my last four trips, and always because they were about the cheapest I could find.
And I had no problem whatsoever with the service on any of those trips, although I was not using a chalet or "club hotel", and probably would not risk using either from a cheap operator such as Crystal.
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kwakazx6r, what a coincidence! Yes it was them. I wouldn't have named them on a public forum though, (you may with to edit to W & N?).
But yes, training! The tea towels!  . Again, good luck with your complaint. If I'd have paid what you did, I would have expected luxury!
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| That wasn't the point I was making. My point is that people complain about the stupidest things because they expect the same things in Europe that they would get at home. For example, the hotel I stayed in this year was very nice for a 3-star, and I enjoyed the food. However, another guest complained that the pillows were lumpy, there were no duvets, only blankets/sheets, no cooked food at breakfast and pasta for dinner every night. ... |
I would complain if the pillows were lumpy enough to be uncomfortable.
I can't recall ever actually coming across a European hotel in the winter without duvets - I have been to several in the UK that only had blankets. Granted you don't usually expect hot food at breakfast in Europe (although they did have eggs & bacon available in the one I stayed at this year), but again, I would complain if the main meal was pasta every night, but it isn;t something I have ever experienced.
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maggi,
Good point !
I will let you know how we get on.
Val Cenis was fantastic though 
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
if we take an average £500pp brochure price holiday on an average non peak week for a half board chalet holiday,
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That is pretty cheap, really. Let's say £150 for flight and transfer, leaving £50 a day for overnight half board accommodation. You get what you pay for, I guess. Would you expect to get half board in a reasonable English hotel for £50 a head? |
That may be pretty cheap, but I have never yet paid that much for the main package of flights, transfers and half board hotel accommodation - and that is travelling as a single (without sharing with a stranger), so includes any single supplements. But I have not recently booked more than 12 weeks ahead, and usually a fair bit less than that.
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kwakazx6r, glad you enjoyed Val Cenis, anyway. We did, too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I can't imagine anyone would go back to a Crystal place after some of the experiences recounted above UNLESS it was very cheap.
Of course, the large proportion of people who end up getting the reduced prices/last minute bargains are all driving down the profitability of the whole business - it might be a good deal in the short term, but ultimately I suppose capacity will be reduced - maybe as early as next season - and prices will rise. Interestingly, our local ski shop man says he has had a good season this winter but he's fearful about next season. Some of the recent news about the enormous drop in flights from regional airports (74% from Blackpool, according to what I saw this morning on BBC) suggests that era of package holidays at ever more competitive real prices is about to come to an end - for some time, at any rate. Maybe future forum members will have nostalgic exchanges about super cheap holidays with bangers and mash for tea.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, if I paid good money to get bangers and mash for dinner I'd be pretty miffed. People on here often mention that self-catering is not an option and they would consider chalet board to be better value, but based on the experiences of maggi and kwakazx6r you just wouldn't. I'd rather make something in my own kitchen.
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pam w, IIRC, the main driver for the big two TOs acquiring the smaller operators was to reduce supply in the market and hence to reduce the need to discount. That was before the slump of the Pound against the Euro, so they may well end up with an over-supply problem again this year.
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You know it makes sense.
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From reading this thread it does seem as though people are more disatisfied with chalets and club hotels. I can agree with this. Although I don't have any gripes with Crystal for the price, I did find a big difference in 'quality' between the Crystal chalet in Kitzbuhel last season and the family-run hotel in Courmayeur this season, although the price was comparable. Judging by this I would always choose a hotel over a chalet or club hotel in future if the prices were the same...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| I'd rather make something in my own kitchen. |
Well, I wouldn't!  This is a holiday. I come in from skiing late, I have a beer. I then, if possible, have a swim, go in hot tub or, as a last resort, have a long, hot shower, lounge about for a bit in a towel, get ready and hit the bar for a drink before dinner. I don't want to shop. I don't want to chop things, peel things, stir things or clear up/wash up things.
If this makes me a bad person, I don't care ....
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Poster: A snowHead
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maggi, You are so not a bad person, I'm with you on expectation and it was totally met with Total in Selva, but like others I would not have wanted to pay brochure price for what we got.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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maggi, of course it doesn't make you a bad person, but if my choice was dodgy sausage and mash, or a home made coq au vin (which takes minutes to put in the oven and cooks while I'm in the shower, hot tub, bar, or swimming pool) I'd still choose my apartment kitchen.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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maggi, definitely with you on that chick. I can scarcely be bothered to shop and cook for myself during the course of a working week let alone when I'm on holiday and knackered from skiing all day...
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| Quote: |
if my choice was dodgy sausage and mash, or a home made coq au vin (which takes minutes to put in the oven and cooks while I'm in the shower, hot tub, bar, or swimming pool) I'd still choose my apartment kitchen.
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me too, and in most resorts (even our tiny one) there's a really good choice of "traiteur" dishes for people who really don't want to cook - or they can persuse the restaurants and find one which isn't serving bangers and mash - though after a few evenings of Savoyard specialities I have been known to crave sausages from our local butcher in Hampshire.
The best bet, really, for those who want to do absolutely no cooking/shopping seems to be to support small owner-run chalets rather than the big operators- they seem to cover a range of budgets. Or to go for the operators who are a little more expensive but offer much better value (such as Ski Olympic). If people are prepared to put up with the rubbish end of the market, I suppose the big TOs will continue to provide it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, our traiteur is good too, and we even have some restaurants that don't serve Savoyarde food, after all we are in Provence.
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[quote="pam w"]
| Quote: |
| The best bet, really, for those who want to do absolutely no cooking/shopping seems to be to support small owner-run chalets rather than the big operators- they seem to cover a range of budgets. Or to go for the operators who are a little more expensive but offer much better value (such as Ski Olympic). If people are prepared to put up with the rubbish end of the market, I suppose the big TOs will continue to provide it. |
Agree completely - the only catered properties we offer are owner-run, as the care and quality is in the hands of the people whose livelihoods depend on happy guests who come back, and also recommend to others. It matters to these owners, that their decision to start a new life in a new country, is justified and offers THEM a better quality of life and job satisfaction, as well as offers their guests a great holiday.
It's possible to find homely and comfortable accommodation with good home-cooked food at a very reasonable cost, but equally possible to find a higher-end property with more luxuries, cocktails, champagne, saunas etc and pay more, if that's what is wanted. The difference beween owner-run catered chalets and TO-managed catered chalets/club hotels can be vast, and that's not just down to money, but also to attitude and pride in the service offered.
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[quote="pam w"]
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........... If people are prepared to put up with the rubbish end of the market, I suppose the big TOs will continue to provide it. |
....and in my experience, Crystal are the providers to this end of the market. 
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Mollerski, I guess you won't be using them again? There are heaps of good alternatives.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, I would not assume that he wont use them again after all he had used them before and found them bad value for money.
My advice would be the same as Anniepen, and pam w, go for an independant operator and you will probably find that there is better value for money.
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It's just a question of price and convenience for me. Last season I sent off for brochures from pretty much every TO in the WTSS book. But the only ones I could find with affordable single rooms and a regional airport departure was TUI, so I've pretty much discounted all the others now. I realise I could probably match the price I'm paying by booking a resort hotel independently and organising my own transport but I just prefer the easier option...
I sympathise with people's grievances, but I definitely can't describe Crystal as bad value for money...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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maybe not. But you are travelling as a single person and have different requirements.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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and regardless of perceived value or the price paid they should be providing what was listed in the accommodation description.
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Helen Beaumont, fair point. I have no complaints on that issue so far but I'm a long way off having visited every establishment and resort described in their brochure. Snigger...
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You know it makes sense.
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I do fully understand that as a TUI company, Crystal are able to provide a more complete service than many smaller operators. My personal experience of Crystal is that, everything appears stripped to the bone, whereas many other companies are able to offer a little more for no more money. I feel that the company MO for Crystal is to squeeze the last Euro out it's operations with little regard to customer satisfaction.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Mollerski, so to sum up Crystal/TUI are a bit like the Tesco of the skiing world. They sell everything to everyone but profit to them is far more important than the consumer...
Some people shop there for the convenience and value factor but others prefer to peruse their local high street in search of a more individual service...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Mollerski, so to sum up Crystal/TUI are a bit like the Tesco of the skiing world..... |
That's a little harsh on Tesco, more Lo-Cost maybe? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You get what you pay for, and as the euro is now 33% more expensive because of the government's excessive debt we will all have to pay 33% more for the same thing next season, or else pay say 50% more and go with a more upmarket operator. Why not check out Mark Warner or Powder Byrne or the Ski Club Freshtracks Holidays? If your French is half decent I can recommend Club Med, either for families or singles. It's got to be better than having a moan.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Better than having a moan? I don't think so. Indeed, the more you pay, the bigger the moan you expect to have.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Indeed, the more you pay, the bigger the moan you expect to have.
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richmond,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| launcelyn wrote: |
| You get what you pay for...................Why not check out .......... the Ski Club Freshtracks Holidays? ............ |
They are not always perfect (the TO concerned was Freshtracks).
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I posted a couple of weeks ago "Crystal Cancel Club Totem Flaine" 10 days before we were due to leave. They offered Club Hotel Turquoise at Belle Plagne or a full refund as an alternative.
Got back yesterday from the Turquoise and my wife wants to book for 2010, today, with Crystal, at the Turquoise and she has already forced me to drink a bottle of 13.5% Chardonnay in an attempt to make me think that the decision to do so will have been made by me.
And I am inclined to let her, but not until she has opened the Glenfiddich.
We had a great week, good food, great company, both at the hotel and in our ski school group, good variety of snow, which improved as the week went on, splendid off piste thursday/friday and a first class instructor from ESF (Laurent, the scuba diving instructor).
A couple of minor issues with our room, pointed out to me by my wife within 3 minutes of our arrival were reported to the hotel manager, who resolved them within the hour.
The staff were friendly and positive and the only real difficulty, for some guests, came when the Chef was "under the weather" one morning and breakfast started a bit late.
Value for money? - my wife works in a school and my son is of school age, therefore we have to either wait until the very last minute in the hope of a cheap cancellation deal or secure the holiday that we want and abide by the laws of economics.
To Jonpims - apologies for not contacting you - hopefully next time, now that the malt is open!
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bryanbolton, very glad you had such a good holiday. 
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We had booked to go to Val Cenis with Crystal (Hotel VAl Cenis). 3 weeks before departure were told that the hotel was fully booked and here was a list of alternatives, one of which was the St Louis in Courchevel. we'd been there before about 5 years ago but since then they'd made it a 'finest' and doubled the prices. We expected thing to have changed a little but everything was the same as before. We got the holiday for what we had payed for Val Cenis, but a lot of the people there had full price which was around £1300! I believe that the new French owners had only taken over at the start of the season, so perhaps hadn't had time to do much but it doesn' take too much to change some worn out carpets. Being a 'chalet hotel' they also had the staff night off on Wednesday. Last time they left a couple of staff on duty in the bar, but this time the whole place was empty, most of the lights off and not even the facility to make tea or coffee!
I must add that we had a really good time the skiing was great if a bit slushy, but I don't mind that. It's just that it could have been an excellent hotel with just a little more effort from Crystal, the staff were excellent, I think its cost cutting and pooor management.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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papasmurf, that makes interesting, if depressing, reading. And people complain about the Russians!
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