Tornado .... or Recon .... or something else?

A snowHead

Been back from Austria for a week now. While I was out there I decided to try out different types of skis with the view to buying in the future. I'm a intermediate skier, 180cm, 74kgs. Happy on all pistes, not so keen on the bumps, not really got much of a clue off piste.

I want to buy some go anywhere, all mountain skis but that would not compromise performance on the piste. Before I went away, my research told me that maybe the K2 Recon would be about right but unfortunately, I couldn't ski them.

These are the skis I used while I was out there:

Salomon Xwing Tornado Ti: 170cm, 124-75-107, 14.5m Rad.

These were the first skis I took out from the hire shop and they felt great. The carve on them was great and they felt quick edge to edge, so quick that it nearly caught me out a few times. My only problem was that I just carved carved carved on them and my legs couldn't hack it and I was done in at the end of the day. However, I like them so much that I asked the guy in the shop how much he'd sell them to me for since it was getting towards the end of the season - 400 Euro was the answer. Shocked

Next set of skis please my good man!

Stockli Stormrider XXL: 170cm, 122-80-108, 17m Rad.

I'd never heard of Stockli before but compared to the Salomon's, the skis were much lighter. They carved well but not at well as the Tornado. The Tornado was much sharper but the Stockli's felt like an easier ski, not as demanding. I'm sure this had something to do with the fact they're lighter. I tried them on the piste when there was a fair amount of powder around and these things just cruised though it and felt a bit more "floaty". I enjoyed these skis but prefered the Salomon's performance. Anyone shed any light on these skis?

Fischer Progressor 7+: 170cm 119-72-102, 13/17m Rad.

When I took these out of the shop, I thought they were a little skinny for all mountain but the chap assure me that they were so took them out for a spin ... and I just couldn't get on with this ski. The only way I seamed to be able to carve was to really wait what seamed an eternity to allow the ski to come round on to the other edge. Once at speed in the turn, I thought I could feel them bouning and not very stable - not sure if that had anything to do with the dual radius or not? Anyone got any suggestions why I felt this? Anyway, i'm not saying they were a bad ski, just that the other 2 were better for me.

That's it - I'd have tested more if I didn't spend the second week of my holiday in bed with gastrointeritus which was given to me by my 1 year old nephew. rolling eyes

So now i'm back and am still thinking about buying a pair of skis. While I haven't tested the K2 Recon, how would this compare to any of the above skis? I feel like the Tornado would be a better ski for me because the tip and tail are quite wider than the waist in comparison to the Recon (119-78-105) so would carve better right? What's the Tornado's off piste performance like when I venture into the outback? Is the Stockli better? Should I just forget about the Recon and go with what I know? RPF, if you're reading this, I read you've skied the Tornado but bought a pair of Scott Neos. The Neo was on my wish list before I went to Austria - how do they compare to the Tornado?

Any advice would be great. This is the first time i've been skiing and paid any attention to the planks on my feet so I admit that all the above maybe complete tosh! Toofy Grin

Cheers
Kersh

A snowHead

x-wing Fury ?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I ski Recon's and love them to bits. They did take some getting use to, tbh I think they were a ski above my abiltiy and I had to ski better to get the best out of them and they do like to be skied hard.
The other little anomaly with them is they are longer than most would say I needed which makes me have to ski them harder as well.

I would say if you get the chance try them before buying.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Kersh,depends how much you want to spend..personally if i found a ski that i loved as much as you did the tornado i dont think 400euro would have put me off..the problem is now youre going to be buying a ski youve never demoed.. i skied the bandit b3 (120/83/110) for 2 years before switching to the obsetheds this season..the bandit is a good all rounder..surprisingly strong on the hardpack,floats well in the pow and makes mincemeat of the crud etc..you can pick up a brand new set with bindings on fleabay for £198..i think thats a steal..ps a tip for your legs for next seasons carving-get down to the gym and squat till you puke..then sqaut some more wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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I demo'd Apache Crossfires in Meribel. I wanted to like them, but failed. I found them ponderous edge to edge, slow and hard work. I chatted to a Brit instructor in a gondola, he was running Recons and didn't go much on them for similar reasons. I also tested a pair of Head Supershape Magnums, those things are awesome, so awesome in fact I've bought a pair. wink

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Kersh,
I have not used the Tornado Ti but did have the standard Tornado for a week earlier this year. I have since bought the Neo and skied them for a week. I love them. They are a genuine all mountain ski. I can carve them better than the Tornado The edge hold is super and they are great edge to edge but they do ski short. I have the 176cm, bindings mounted on the manufacturers mark and they are perfect for me (5'11' 85ish kg maybe a little less Blush

). I tried the shorter one in Tamworth (168 ithink) and the tails steped out and they turned too easily. I was happy on Tornados of 170 and 162. But give me the Neo any day.

I thought the Neo floated better because of its slightly greater width and length but didnt have as much floaty feel on fresh powder. I think this is probably because of their stiffness. Similar to what you observed between the Tornado Ti and the Stockli. In powder the Neo was less likely to hook up than the Tornado and hence easier to use in these conditions.

The stiffness and wide noses of the neo blast through crud and chopped up powder so that I didnt have to adjust technique to deal with it.

When I first asked about the Neo in comparison to the Tornado the guy in the shop said it would be more in the league of the Tornado Ti. The Neo is a stiff ski more so than the mission or Punisher. Like the Tornado Ti, the Neo also has titanium sheets in the construction. It was not an easy ski to find reviews on unlike the other scott skis but any time I asked about them I always got the response thats a really good ski.

Maybe you could consider the Scott Aztec pro its narrower than the Neo and a little more piste oriented like you say you are. I think its stiff too but I've not seen or used them myself.

I wasnt sure if I was ready for a ski this stiff and was worried that I might struggle with it, not so this ski raised my level so good equipment does help. It likes to be skied hard and fast but will cruise on the groomers if you put it on edge and let it do the work. In reflection my legs were tired during the middle of that week but I was enjoying these skis so much i did not stop to reflect on it too much. Towards the end of the week the legs stopped complaining. I will address the tired legs by getting my allignment assesed.

I've not skied the recons but imagined they would be like Dwarf Vader, said anyone who has used them loves them likewise the xplorer. Not sure from your post whether you mean you didnt get to try the recons or they didnt agree with you.

I would think if you liked the Tornado Ti so much its probably the one you want.

But can you get your hands on them Puzzled

It is a superb time to buy skis in the UK. Next year will be pricey. See if you can demo the recons, and neos some where. There are still some recons to be got on the web here £399 with bindings http://www.theoutdoorgearshop.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_K2_Apache_Recon_Ski_with_Marker__MOD12_Binding.html
and www.filarinskis.co.uk have the Neo in 176. £318 with bindings

I'm no expert, I'm a good intermediate on most terrain and only recently started comparing skis too, but these are my experiences hope they help.

After all it is free

Thanks for all the advice.

RPF, good info there and no I didn't mamage to get on the Recon. It's interesting that you were also told that the Neo and Tornado Ti are similar. When I spoke to Ellis Brigham at Castleford earlier in the season, after a chat about ability, these were the 2 skis they recommended to me. I should have gone up there and tested them there and then but I gambled on testing them in the Alps - unfortunately the Neo was nowhere to be seen, buy or rent. I've just called the EB shops and I cant test them anymore. Dammit! Mad

So I am now at a quandary. I want to buy some skis in the sale at the moment. Should I buy the Tornado because I i've skied on it and know what i'm getting or risk it and go with the Neo. RPF, you say the Neo is better off piste than the Tornado. Even if I could test the Neo, i'd still have to take your word for it because my off piste skills are limited. That said, I want to ski off piste so don't want to buy piste skis. Is the Tornado too much of a piste ski? Everyone I have spoken to says they are similar skis on the piste so should I just go for the Neo because it's wider and in theory better off piste?

Anguish!!!! rolling eyes

RPF, another question for you, what's the dual raduis like on the Neo? Does it work well? I thought this maybe causing me some problems when I skied on the Progressor 7+ but I think the Neo tackles the dual raduis in a different way. The Progressor 7+ has a 14m tip and 17m tail (or something like that anyway).

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Kersh, I think there is off piste and off piste. I dont think either of these skis would be anyones first choice for bottomless powder. If like me you ski in europe and want a ski to cope with variety of conditions mainly groomed pistes, lots of bumps (I know you dont like bumps but youre gonna meet them)and powder days when you are lucky enough to get them you'll be happy on either of these I imagine. They should both be stiff enough to blast through crud too which is probably one of the best atributes.

There is always going to be a better ski for any given day. They both are genuine all mountain skis and do a lot very very well. There are piste skis that will be better than either of these on piste and big mountain skis that will be better in powder. Its probably fair to say the Tornado has evolved from piste skis. The Neo is a variation on a common theme among the Scott skis (which works very well) and is not found wanting on piste at all it goes like s**t of a slate holds an awesome edge and is not difficult to switch edge to edge. They have a short Radius for their width thanks to the Dual radius (which may help them not hook up in powder too). They coped with crud and changing snow superbly. The neo likes to have a bit of speed up on piste but you dont have to go flat out all the time to make it work.

Remember that skiing powder is a different technique to groomed snow I think if you nail this you will ski it well on either ski. Good skiers can ski powder on technique not just ski width (I'm not one of these Crying or Very sad

). If we are lucky enough to get a day with too much powder for an all mountain ski I'll buy something there and then just for the day Toofy Grin

IMO and so as not to sit on the fence the neo is probably the more versatile but get either at the right price and you'll be very pleased I bet. If this helps your decission I dont know where you'll find a pair of New Tornado Ti now. But there are still some neos about. Toofy Grin

I bought mine with out bindings and got Spyderjon to supply and fit them for me and prep my bases before I skied them. I'm away this weekend and cant wait to ski on them again. Very Happy

I'll PM you where you might be able to find both skis used check your mail box.

Help!!

Tornado .... or Recon .... or something else?

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