 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been skiing for 14 years, never had a lesson, kinda came natural really. I'm at a point of intermediate/advanced and i've been going to castleford every tuesday for the passed 6 weeks. A very nice lady instructor there as pointed out a balance issue i have when turning to the left where i still stem a little, so i've been told to do three exercises. Shuffle feet while traversing, drag the uphill tip while lifting the tails traversing and do little jumps. Bar the the lifting the tails, i'm doing pretty good, however still a wee stem is present, but improvement as she says i'm now smoother. She suggested i have an advanced level at some point as carving would help me loads. So i have the rossignol radical mutix r11 ski set up for 11m turn radius and basically am after someone here to talk me through a carved turn. I thought i was carving at first but my turns, though powered through with as much pressure on the tongue of the boot, i still skid slightly so any help greatly recieved guys.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| johnDUB wrote: |
| Shuffle feet while traversing, drag the uphill tip while lifting the tails traversing and do little jumps. Bar the the lifting the tails, i'm doing pretty good,. |
ooh, is that like a flamingo turn?
http://www.therusty.com/images/shape_article/t6-a.gif
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I thought that stemming was caused by not moving your hips across & your skis.
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some times I just step my ski out to stem 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How do you start turning, what's the first few things you do?
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Mosha Marc, I roll my chewing gum from one side of my mouth to the other. Works for me 
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Tilting my head sometimes works a treat.
johnDUB, really difficult to advice on such a general issue without seeing you ski. Do you have any video? The biggest fault I see when people are trying but failing to carve is they do too much at the start of the turn, normally rushing the transition by throwing in a little pivot. Just focus on changing edges and nothing more.
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It took me several years of lessons with these guys http://www.ski-factory.it/eng/index.html to really get to grips with carving. When on lifts observing other skiers, it's surprising how few skiers really have it nailed down, especially Brits for obvious reasons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just get a few lessons. All the advice that you can get here (good though it may be) will not give you the help that a bit of on snow coaching will. Even one lesson will give you exercises to work on the specific things that you need to make the changes you need. 
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Sorry Rob, no video. When i'm mid turn, i have pressure on front of the boot but I mainly smear the turn. Its more noticeable since I've changed skis to the rossi's which are wider.
Watching people carve, it appears the uphill ski does some work too. I seem to do the right turn etc, just end up smearing the carve. Perhaps i dont have the correct edge angle into the snow..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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johnDUB, can you do the exercise shown?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sketchy but yes. Nice lady instructor shown me something similar but not lifting as high.
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johnDUB, as rob@rar said, learn to change edges but do nothing else but stay balanced and patient
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| The biggest fault I see when people are trying but failing to carve is they do too much at the start of the turn, normally rushing the transition by throwing in a little pivot. Just focus on changing edges and nothing more. |
Truly one of the best bits of advice when progressing towards carving. I didn't get it until I had the word 'patience' well and truly beaten into me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks guys, will do!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Your problem may be biomechanics rather than tecnique. Very few people are symmetrical. Often there are subtle differences between right and left side which mean that you can turn one way better than the other. As an example, I have one leg 1cm longer than the other, which means I struggle to get an inside edge on the long side. To compensate, you may need a different setup rather than a different tecnique.
Mick
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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johnDUB, pivot slip (also known as braquage) drills are very good to help eliminate stems.
You will probably need to ask somebody to show you what they are.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| I thought that stemming was caused by not moving your hips across & your skis. |
Without seeing the opo then then the most likely cause is that their weight is on the tails of the skis.
(You can be pressuring the the tongue of the boot and be on the tails of your skis.)
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| penster wrote: |
| Your problem may be biomechanics rather than tecnique. |
I'm a great fan / believer in having your alignment sorted, but LOFT* is a more likely cause.
* LOFT - Lack OF Technique. There's a less polite version, which I'll leave for interested readers to work out for themselves.
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FlyingStantoni, aha, you've just answered a question I had vaguely been thinking of posting on the other thread. I was kinda hoping that getting my alignment sorted would turn me into a competent skier overnight, in which case, I'd have started saving up immediately. Ho hum.
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| johnDUB wrote: |
| I thought i was carving at first but my turns, though powered through with as much pressure on the tongue of the boot, i still skid slightly |
The key to carving is to stick the ski on edge and stop yourself from doing anything else. If the ski is skidding then, by definition, you're doing too much rather than too little in your turn.
You mention "pressure on the tongue of the boot" twice in this thread and that's probably a good place to start backing off your input. Pressure on the tongue of the boot will certainly help with turn initiation, but overall you want to be centred through the turn - not too far forwards.
The thing you need to realise is that you need the whole ski to be working for you. If you have your weight too far forwards then the back of the ski isn't going to be working for you and there's every chance that it'll skid out because of lack of pressure.
When you start the turn think about pressuring the tongue of the boot just as you start the turn and then just back off a little so that you're centred in the boot.
You may also need to reduce your aspirations a little. So, instead of trying to carve a full turn off the cuff, you should try cleanly carving a traverse on both sides. And then trying carved "J" turns. Only then should you move onto trying to carve full turns.
Do bear in mind that if you don't finish your turns properly then you'll pick up lots of (unwanted) speed - so you need to have a good focus on trying to keep your speed in check. It's not uncommon for people starting to carve to be able to carve two or three turns, but then become out of control.
In truth, if you've never had any lessons then you're best route to carving is to invest in some good instruction. There's no substitute for it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
(You can be pressuring the the tongue of the boot and be on the tails of your skis.) |
Wait, what? Flex your ankle too much then lean back as far as you can? It's got to be hard to do something that's a symptom of being too far forwards and still be back... if I had to guess a problem from the vague symptoms, I'd guess too far forward and too tight a stance.
Anyway, Phil's advice above is good, but personally I'd boil it down to - widen your stance, think of initiating a turn by squishing the arch of your footbed - the centre of your boot - down in the outside ski boot. (confusing worked explanation I'd normally do by pointing with a ski pole -if you're turning left, you want to feel pressure build on the right foot's arch, on the left hand side of the foot, in the middle of the boot)
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| FlyingStantoni, aha, you've just answered a question I had vaguely been thinking of posting on the other thread. I was kinda hoping that getting my alignment sorted would turn me into a competent skier overnight, in which case, I'd have started saving up immediately. Ho hum. |
Don't get me wrong Hurtle, having my alignment sorted has done lots for my skiing. It just didn't magically give me technique.
It is possible that an alignment issue is causing some fundamental issues with the opo's skiing. BUT, and it's a big but, carving has the lowest input requirements of any type of turning and it's the place where alignment is least likely to cause issues that STOP you being able to achieve it.
If the opo could carve and do short turns on piste, but keeps falling over in powder then I'd start with alignment as it has a far bigger impact once your skis are in, rather than on, the snow.
Besides, given 14 years of skiing without any lessons then Occam's razor suggest technique.
I would encourage you to go and see Andy though. And it's not that expensive.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ohmigod, I've just realised I have no idea how to ski. And I'm probably totally imbalanced. My skis probably need raised, my boots lowered and my beer to be drunk.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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re: alignment - I'm a firm believer that if boots are reasonably accurately fitting - ie, they don't slop around too much, and they don't hurt, then that's fine. Obviously, a perfectly fitting boot means neither of these, so that's great, but high end tweaks help high end skiers. A beginner in a super-accurate boot will struggle way more than a beginner in two sizes too big...
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You know it makes sense.
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I agree with DaveC's summation. Good point on the stance width. (One of my weaknesses.)
| DaveC wrote: |
| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
(You can be pressuring the the tongue of the boot and be on the tails of your skis.) |
Wait, what? Flex your ankle too much then lean back as far as you can? It's got to be hard to do something that's a symptom of being too far forwards and still be back... if I had to guess a problem from the vague symptoms, I'd guess too far forward and too tight a stance. |
Lack of clarity on my part. I was treating the stemming and the carving issues as two separate problems.
You can pressure the tongue of the boot and drop your hips down and back and have the centre of mass more towards the tails.
The opo mentions not being able to do a tail lift exercise. That suggests the weight is back in their normal skiing.
I'd read into the post that they were doing "something different" to try to carve and, in fact, going too far the other way.
I may, of course, be completely wrong.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yeah, it's just not that usual - but you're right if tail lifts are a problem there's something unusual happening - unless it's just an unfamiliar drill.
johndub - just to clarify a little more, because I tend to like to know the effect behind what I'm doing - what you're looking for in a carved turn is tips following tails through a clean arc, carved by your ski edge. To do that, you need to load the edge of your outside ski equally along it's length. The inside will follow, assuming your stance isn't so tight that you're forced to stem to not trip yourself up.
So, I'm trying to get you to keep your centre of mass (CoM) over the middle of your ski to allow equal loading of the tip and tail, and you to stand with your weight over your outside ski, with a wide enough stance to allow both to turn across the fall line and back to a traverse to set up the next turn.
So:
CoM over the middle of your skis - you should be able to feel your whole footbed, equal pressure on the tongue and cuff of your boot through the turn. If you had to pick a point where you're putting your weight onto the ski boot, it should be the boot centre marker.
Weight on your outside ski - your inside ski should feel really light, like you can pick it up.
Wide stance - Try a couple of laps skiing as if you're riding a horse. Really, unnaturally wide. Then try and keep it. It's nowhere near as wide as you think
Your drills that you've been prescribed are all to get your weight centred on your skis. Jumping (and getting the ski to come off the ground equally at the tip and tail) shows you're centred. Shuffling your feet as you ski also requires it - a slightly more advanced one is marching as you ski. Dragging a tip means you can't have your weight back at all, as your tail is totally unweighted. I think knowing *why* you want your weight centred is half the battle, so hopefully the above helps
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DaveC wrote: |
| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
(You can be pressuring the the tongue of the boot and be on the tails of your skis.) |
Wait, what? Flex your ankle too much then lean back as far as you can? It's got to be hard to do something that's a symptom of being too far forwards and still be back... |
AIUI -over flex at the knees... many folks who press hard on the tongues are overflexed.... butt is back even though they are pushing forward with shin
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stack it and hack it...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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do loads of hockey stops and pivot slips... your stemming will go away
shuffling is a rubbish drill dont bother with it...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DaveC wrote: |
| re: alignment - I'm a firm believer that if boots are reasonably accurately fitting - ie, they don't slop around too much, and they don't hurt, then that's fine. Obviously, a perfectly fitting boot means neither of these, so that's great, but high end tweaks help high end skiers. A beginner in a super-accurate boot will struggle way more than a beginner in two sizes too big... |
In terms of a super stiff race boot yes most of us would struggle but proper alignment is not going to cause any issues. These are 2 different things . 2 sizes too big been there done that  carving was a big no no It was like pushing a rope. When I got the right boots I picked it up quite quickly I wasn't fully aligned at this stage but I was in quite a good stance and my skis were nearly lying flat, sorting the alignment made it even easier to maintain a good stance and switch edges. If a beginner is in a boot/binding set up that compounds any biomechanics issues rather than repair them they will be unable to keep their COM where it needs to be and achieving the goals in your subsequent post will be very difficult for them.
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skimottaret, do you notice that people have a favored hockey stop side? (related to having a weaker turn side)
I didn't think about it much but it started to become apparent that I would find myself setting myself up for hockey stops so I could do them on my best side. This is fine when you have room to do this. As I learned yesterday I too suffer from a weaker turn to one side which causes me to stem at low speed drills so I might restrict hockey stops to my weaker side while practicing next time.
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RPF, yes, practice your weak side and your stem step will go away.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| RPF wrote: |
| If a beginner is in a boot/binding set up that compounds any biomechanics issues rather than repair them they will be unable to keep their COM where it needs to be and achieving the goals in your subsequent post will be very difficult for them. |
"Unable" and "very difficult" seems like a stretch, unless they have super-freakish feet. You don't need perfect ski boots to ski well. This attitude is huge on Snowheads and rare elsewhere - it's almost getting to cult status..
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| DaveC wrote: |
| You don't need perfect ski boots to ski well. |
No, I think that's right, but I also think that perfect ski boots won't make you ski less well. I've spent a fair bit of time getting my boots right, but the majority of that has been comfort rather than performance because of the unusual shape feet I have. I have spent a little bit of time (about 2 hours in total) on alignment and performance issues, and despite starting from a sceptical position was pleasantly surprised by a noticeable improvement in the feel I had for my skiing. It didn't turn me into Bode Miller overnight (for that I'd need more than the services of a good bootfitter), but it has been another small step towards improving my skiing
Isn't there a lot of chat on Epic about alignment?
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FAQ
). Not much current activity on this account, unfortunately, as decorator currently eating £20 notes and I've just bought new wheels. 
I can see that there are some on here who would consider my priorities to be seriously awry. 
