 Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I didn't really understand what 'shoulder swinging' meant until I watched our Courmayeur holiday DVD
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Ahhhhhh, yes. I am British. I take lots of lessons, and as a result I ski with elegance, power and grace.
I'm better than 97% of skiers on the hill.
Until I see myself on video. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Acacia, 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rich.ll wrote: |
Alexandra,
I don't think I'm a good skier, I know I'm a bad skier. I've had plenty of skiing lessons and will probably have more but I'll probably still be a bad skier.
Why is this a problem to you :~/ |
I am not remotely as cute as Alexandra but I will respond thus: you're paying for, and thereby supporting, bad teaching.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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comprex,
How do you know? Some of us are just bad at some things. I know plenty of people that will never be good mathematicians regardless of the quality of the teaching. Good teachers can make us better, but they can't work miracles.
The fact that I'm not good at something doesn't neccessarily spoil my enjoyment of it, and provided I don't impinge on the safety of others or their enjoyment then why should I stop doing it?
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rich.ll, 'good skiing' doesn't require any sort of miracle, the 'good skiing' bar is _not_ raised by the presence of other good skiers on the hill, and, unlike mathematics or piano playing say, there is a constantly evolving technology to make 'good skiing' easier.
Nobody's asking you to stop skiing.
The theme of my posts in this thread is more of "Stop expecting to be a bad skier, because your expectations _will_ hinder the efforts of good teachers".
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comprex,
I haven't read all the posts on this thread and my reply was to the original post.
I don't have any big problems with the theme of your posts as summarised by yourself.
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Alexandra,I think you're mistaken. I really don't see a lot of people on the slopes swinging their shoulders. This technique would be a sure fire way to land on your ass.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Is the original author of this thread a skier "par excellence". Some people who think they ski badly may even ski better than this person.
Anyway, who are we to judge? Isn't it all about enjoying your time on the slopes?
I think the dutch,french, italian and many other nations also have an equal amount of "plebby" skiers
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alpinequeen, the OP must be a simply divine and expert skier to have the nerve to post something like that. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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erica2004, I see the majority of winter skiers doing it. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ladies, let it lie, for gawds sake....
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erica2004, here is a caricature of extreme shoulder swinging, performed on inline skates:
The goal of the skater and the skiers who use it is the same: to pivot their skates/skis while they are on edge and thereby use muscle force to make part of the turn shorter.
There are two differences between the skater and the skiers:
- that particular skater is doing it completely by choice and has very many other tools available
- the skater is pushing backwards because he wants to gain speed; skiers push forwards because they want to lose speed.
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, expand this thinking... we are still talking shoulders. ..but if we were talking hips ..????
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JT,  I know I don't understand your meaning? His hips are exactly where we'd expect them to be with a skier, in spite of the slight divergence?
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Poster: A snowHead
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comprex, looks like they ( the hips ) are going backwards and forwards to me... so the exagerated arm movements are helping this...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lots of holiday skiers are not really interested in improving their technical skills. They just want to slide about a bit on the snow and have some fun. Still see a lot of 'old school' technique being used as well. So what? Being coached to death is not everyone's idea of a holiday. Once you can control your speed safely, how far you take lessons beyond that is optional.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JT, I see it more as a bending forward at the waist.
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comprex, If you took away the huge arm movement, I think the hips are fine... a bit OTT, but it is a bit hard to concentrate with arms going mad tho'..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Don't think my understanding of shoulder swinging is the same as comprex's
His clip looks more typical of the French/Italian crazy pierre style with excessive bum wiggling.
I though shoulder swinging was about inappropriate upeer body rotation to initiate turns and clumsy "forced" poleplanting.
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fatbob, I think your understanding is exactly the same as mine, the difference being one of scale.
Again the clip is an /exaggeration/ the skater -is- using UBR to initiate and to execute every part of those turns: he's skating uphill. I didn't have a convenient pic of a skier skiing uphill using UBR because few are actually strong enough.
The point being that, if that is near the upper reach of the continuum from excessive to none, very few skiers actually make turns without relying on UBR in the initiation phase as you say or in the finishing phase for speed control.
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comprex, Olympic speed skaters hold their hands behind their backs don't they, once they've reached a good speed?
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pam w, yes for aerobic efforts, i.e. races lasting over about 2 minutes. 1500m and under not so much.
That's getting pretty far afield, though perhaps it clarifies my point to fatbob:
shoulder motion and UBR are tools. So is a rake. An Alabama chain gang member won't become a Zen monk by doing more raking.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 24-04-09 19:52; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, so.... degrees of quiet upper body. we all broadly agree. Nobody wants to see the UBR dominating the turn , but some is useful in certain instances and phases of a turn....if only for balance.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| alpinequeen wrote: |
Is the original author of this thread a skier "par excellence". Some people who think they ski badly may even ski better than this person.
Anyway, who are we to judge? Isn't it all about enjoying your time on the slopes?
I think the dutch,french, italian and many other nations also have an equal amount of "plebby" skiers |
from what i have been told she ain't no bode miller
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The poor girl might need some kind of therapy - "one hell of a large sack of spuds on her shoulder" -one of my ski-ing friends has observed this thread who happens to practice in this medical area - at a suitable fee he is open to some consultancy -Alexandra PM me I can put you in touch -be warned however he heli ski's regularly in BC and Alaska so those fees ain't gona be cheap 
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You know it makes sense.
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Alexandra, bit late on this thread, but..
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Why do they believe that having skiied for 20+ years they're good?
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I'm a newcomer to sking, 3rd year, but plenty of my mates 'down the pub' have been sking for 20yrs+ and 'can get down anything and never had a lesson in their lives'. Well yes, even I can 'get down anything' - but difference is, I wouldn't want you watching . 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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from what i have been told she ain't no bode miller
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I thing nearly everyone should take lessons, Bode Miller gets coached
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Maybe they can split the cost of a private lesson. Now that Bode is out of work he might be glad to save a few $
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lampbus has lovely technique without having lessons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer, hasn't he had lessons with Charlotte?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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maggi, I think he had a week skiing off piste with her.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Kramer, he had a week along with Mr & Mrs Aztec and Achilles. His first lessons. He has remarkable balance (much above average), and the ability, like JT to be able to watch and then do - this is also very rare IME.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski, I'm a little confused... do you do roller-blading lessons too? if so I might be interested...
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Not sure if the last post is actually worth responding to - sweeping and inaccurate generalisations seldom are. Well, ok, I will respond. What a load of bollox.
Not much more to be said, really!
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| ccl wrote: |
Not sure if the last post is actually worth responding to - sweeping and inaccurate generalisations seldom are. Well, ok, I will respond. What a load of bollox.
Not much more to be said, really! |
Well excuse me for saying what i've observed, and as far as ive seen its true, could you please elaborate and give some examples? Its not my fault if ive been exposed to the worst case scanario is it?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spuddfluff, I once met a dude from Farnborough who was a lady's front bottom, doesn't mean I'm going to go on the internet and post about all people from Farnborough being ladies' front bottoms. That would just be unfair don't you think? It's not my fault he was a lady's front bottom.
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FAQ
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