 Poster: A snowHead
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Why is it that so many British people take 3 lessons on their first week on the slopes then never seem to bother again?
Do they really believe they're elegant and graceful with their swishy-wishy shoulders, arms clamped to their sides? getting in to "the tuck" for a near horizontal schuss of around 15m?
I recently took a lesson in Breck and one of the participants was an English gentleman in his 50s who actually stormed out of the lesson in a big old huff having been told that swingy shoulders was NOT actually the way to go... he said he'd skiied like that for 30 years and never had a problem. Oh dear. He did not much appreciate it being suggested that he wasn't as good as he thought he was.
Why do they believe that having skiied for 20+ years they're good?
Why don't they just take a damned lesson?
We often read here of people wanting long written technical explanations of how to improve their skiing, they buy books & DVDs... yet what they really need is a B.A.S.I.C. lesson.
Let's discuss!
Alexandra - (School of telling it like it is  )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh goody, a troll-fest 
Wasn't yesterday the day when Fools normally post?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alexandra, too much generalisation.  I spend all season in an almost exclusively French resort and can assure you that plenty of French people ski badly too, and would do well to take some more lessons. Although your point can fairly be applied to some British skiers, I think it's also true that a certain type of British skier is MORE likely to spend time and money on specialist lessons - and take a close interest in equipment. What reason do you have for assuming that Snowheads who want to discuss technique or buy DVDs are doing that instead of taking lessons?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| cathy wrote: |
There were a lot of German skiers there but I don't know which nationality has to take the blame for the standard of skiing  |
Always blame the Germans.
[/Clarkson]
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rob - certainly not a troll. Just seriously wondering how the heck the British get so good at that twisted shoulders stuff that they/we do. 
pam_w - I certainly don't want to go through the boards naming and shaming and without a doubt there are some excellent british "holidaymakers" - however the vast majority are absolute pish yet with egos the size of Mont Blanc! The french of course ski with their ankles duct-taped together but they take lessons in elbowing and ski-stomping.
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| Alexandra wrote: |
| rob - certainly not a troll. |
Really 
I ski with quite a few Brit skiers. Without doubt they are considerably more proficient than the vast majority of people on the slopes, have a deep understanding of skiing, a respect and passion for the mountains, and many of them are qualified instructors.
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Troll or not, it's really quite unpleasant.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Alexandra, seemed like your chap did take a lesson and then found out he had better things to do with his time....
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| Alexandra wrote: |
| Why is it that so many British people take 3 lessons on their first week on the slopes...... |
An absolutely shocking generalisation which I find severely offensive.
I had FIVE lessons to get my shoulders correctly swishing.....and my ego is somewhat bigger than little Mont Blanc....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hurtle, unpleasant? Unfortunately these poor little diddums are a hazard to other people on the hill. I thing nearly everyone should take lessons, Bode Miller gets coached - everyone can always learn something new. I am not criticising so much their lack of ability, rather their lack of humility!
I am speaking from experience of what I've seen. I'm really happy for all of you who've only ever skiied with the very creme de la creme of planked Brits.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jon.L, the shoulders thing, how do you do that? Can I have a detailed tech explanation as I'm unable to find it on a DVD although I've not checked my Pan's People special yet.
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It's a gift.
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You know it makes sense.
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Alexandra, and this kind of generalisation, de haut en bas, is humble?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Alexandra wrote: |
| I thing nearly everyone should take lessons |
Why, it's a holiday isn't it? Providing people are not causing a danger to other slope users why should they have to take lessons? I ski in resorts where there are many British visitors and in my opinion (and professional judgement) the Brits do not pose any more of a threat to other slope users than any other nationality. If your concern is for safety you should campaign to stop French teenagers skiing on blades rather than making sweeping generalisations about nationalities.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, bang on, first time... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
you should campaign to stop French teenagers skiing on blades rather than making sweeping generalisations about nationalities
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I take it that was ironic? 
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Lizzard, only slightly
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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So ......
1. Holiday skiers frequently ski in a numpty-like fashion and don't bother with lessons.
2. Teenagers tend to be reckless and inconsiderate.
Not exactly new, is it? The nationality stuff is just a load of old red herringery if you ask me.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
So ......
1. Holiday skiers frequently ski in a numpty-like fashion and don't bother with lessons.
2. Teenagers tend to be reckless and inconsiderate.
Not exactly new, is it? The nationality stuff is just a load of old red herringery if you ask me. |
I agree entirely. The OP was just trolling.
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rob@rar,
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I agree entirely. The OP was just trolling.
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Is the OP by a Dutch Person
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It seems a peculiarly British disease to lambast one's compatriots, while putting oneself in a superior, minority category.
I think I might be hoist by my own petard there.
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laundryman,
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Why? Because we won two world wars and one world cup, doo dah, doo dah
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Don't we all generalise sometimes? Doesn't mean we're trolling, or that we're right for that matter, lol!
I think the fact we're Brits and understand the language makes the Brit skiers who do perhaps fit into this category more obvious to us, particularly when they're propping up a bar in the evening telling everyone what great skiers they are and we've spotted them on the slopes earlier and have seen how they really ski. The French, German, Dutch people at the bar may well be pontificating and saying the same thing but it's less obvious to many of us without the language skills to understand. I do remember people on here a year or so back taking a pop at those suggesting lessons were a good idea, one classic was a poster who, IIRC, boasted that he'd never had a ski lesson beyond his first or second week and learnt everything else by watching good skiers and copying ... the implication was, of course, that he was a dead good skier now too! Haven't seen or read that sort of thing recently though, if anything I suspect a greater proportion of Snowheads want to take lessons to improve their performance than the general skiing population
At the end of the day though I've seen people of every nationality who really need to take a lesson but presumably don't. I've also seen plenty of French and others swinging shoulders and the like so it's not just Brits.
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| roga wrote: |
| Don't we all generalise sometimes? |
Yes, he said making a sweeping generalisation. And it's right that we get called on it.
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You know it makes sense.
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| JT wrote: |
| Alexandra, seemed like your chap did take a lesson and then found out he had better things to do with his time.... |
JT, I thought it was a shame he chose not to continue with the lesson, because IMO what is "better to do with your time" than to improve your skiing - which presumably is why he took the lesson?
Boredsurfing, no, I'm not Dutch - I live here. I'm British.
Personally I love a good critique of my own skiing, I want to be really good - not just "get down". I like lessons which include a deconstructed video analysis. So it perplexes me as to why exactly it is that so many Brits are seemingly unhappy with their abilities yet fail to do the one thing which might actually solve their problems.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Alexandra wrote: |
| So it perplexes me as to why exactly it is that so many Brits are seemingly unhappy with their abilities yet fail to do the one thing which might actually solve their problems. |
Probably for the same reasons as other nationalities.
There are plenty of people who are happy with what they can do on skis and see no need for expensive lessons. Can't see anything wrong with that position.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I in the past have taken a pop at those who suggest that lessons are the ONLY way to improve one's skiing, sometimes mileage and a bit of self awareness can help a lot.
However what you are talking about is not just a British phenomenon, American westerners criticise East coasters & Texicans, Canadians note that their prairie countryfolk lack certain core skills, Savoyards are amused by Parisians etc.
I still hold a general bias that Scots will be better skiers than English due to formative years of heather hopping at the Gorm or Glencoe.
The reason why I've never taken a Continental European lesson as an adult is some truly appalling experiences of ESF & Italian ski schools of the "follow-me" methodolgy as a teenager. I would suspect I'm not alone in this in-bred aversion to lessons though in recognition of the many high standard pros out there obviously there are more (& excellent ) options available these days.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Having lived in resorts for a couple of years I personal think that the British aren't alone in being guilty of this... true there are some but as indeed there are a lot of other nationalities guilty of this..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
| I in the past have taken a pop at those who suggest that lessons are the ONLY way to improve one's skiing, sometimes mileage and a bit of self awareness can help a lot. |
Problem is though that the necessary level of self awareness IMHO only comes after a lot of training, mileage can be useful but again dangerous if all you are doing is practising bad habits.
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| However what you are talking about is not just a British phenomenon, American westerners criticise East coasters & Texicans, Canadians note that their prairie countryfolk lack certain core skills, Savoyards are amused by Parisians etc. |
Yup!
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| I still hold a general bias that Scots will be better skiers than English due to formative years of heather hopping at the Gorm or Glencoe. |
Me too (probably partly because I grew up doing just that but also because I have seen a lot of truly excellent skiers at Glencoe and others when I've been up - all home grown types too!).
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| The reason why I've never taken a Continental European lesson as an adult is some truly appalling experiences of ESF & Italian ski schools of the "follow-me" methodolgy as a teenager. I would suspect I'm not alone in this in-bred aversion to lessons though in recognition of the many high standard pros out there obviously there are more (& excellent ) options available these days. |
I only use BASI qualified ISTDs.
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Alexandra, my point there would have been that the lesson enviroment didn't seem that cordial... both you and the instructor seemed to take a dim view of his stance ( not skiing ) and if that came across in the lesson, maybe he thought he could spend his time elsewhere...
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it perplexes me as to why exactly it is that so many Brits are seemingly unhappy with their abilities yet fail to do the one thing which might actually solve their problems.
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they might get bored or want to spend their time doing what they want..rather than what an instructor wants...Now, this can seem a short term view but you have to decide how you spend your time on skis..and most of us have not enough time.
I said this many a time before and I think it is a firm trade-off......skiing lessons or skiing skiing. I'll only state my own situation as I see it.... lessons could...could make or could have made me better but then I would have missed so much else.
I don't know where it is that the returns overtake each other or even out or whatever but that is the route I choose and that is the route I would choose again...I suspect.
The only thing I possibly regret is not taking lesson in my 1st 5 years...probably..but who is to know...
Not skiing too well these last couple of years but to fix that...how much time can I afford to put in to lessons...? and at the expense of what days in the hills...?
I recently had to have a down day..as I call it, nursing a pulled muscle and had to stay on the piste practising....and you want to see the day I missed............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GUTTED..!!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JT, maybe a different ski school would have given you a better balance between instruction and skiing? My photos in this and the subsequent post were taken during a week of ski school. Lessons don't have to be dull; in fact, they really shouldn't be, especially when you get to higher ability levels.
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^^ JT I don't understand the distinction between "skiing lessons" and "skiing skiing" - in my experience skiing with an instructor has opened up more of the mountain to me and we've invariably covered more ground in a day than I probably otherwise would have.
I don't see how it would curtail my doing anything unless I was truly uncompromisingly determined to only go exactly where I choose to go, or just wanted to ski from restaurant to restaurant and spend most of my time admiring the views.
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| Quote: |
So it perplexes me as to why exactly it is that so many Brits are seemingly unhappy with their abilities yet fail to do the one thing which might actually solve their problems.
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It's not clear to me why you think there are so many Brits in that category, Alexandra. Evidence? There are undoubtedly lots of people of every nationality who could ski better (indeed 100% of every nationality?) but who are seemingly happy with their abilities and enjoying themselves.
There are a few people who can become very good indeed without lessons - but probably not many and I am certainly not one of them.
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roga, ok..put it like this.... say ! go into an advanced level class... where would the instructor take me..? They might be able to rip my technique to shreads but I doubt they will take me anywhere I haven't been myself....or would go myself...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, very nice and looks great......
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