 Poster: A snowHead
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whats the consensus on the required skills for off piste skiing.
looking to improve my skills and would like to have a fair crack at off piste.
currently my confidence is usually in place long after my talent and skill have deserted me. But that may be due to me being thick 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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mugen, see, for example, here which indicates that SCGB require (their) red/silver on-piste standard as a base.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hurtle, those category type things are quite cruel. Pretty sure I'm a 'red' and have been for about 25 years! LOL! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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mugen, what do you define as off piste? depending on wether it's light dry powder, heavy wet stuff, crusty, corn or anything in between affects what skill you need!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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queen bodecia, you and me both!!! Well, actually, they've graded me silver, but I don't think there's that much difference. And I believe that women tend to under-grade themselves, so you're probably silver too.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm definitely not a silver. I can get down a black but it ain't pretty and I normally whinge a lot...
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kitenski, my understanding of what mugen was asking concerned the basic skills level one should have before venturing off-piste (ie further than a bit of fluffy snow at the side of the piste) at all. But I could be wrong.
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BTW I've never been off-piste unless you count crossing a cruddy bit to get from one piste to another...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hurtle, bless ya. Must take guts to even try it...
The thought of it scares me. I'm one of these that looks reasonably competent on a nicely groomed blue or red piste. Icy/steep/bumps/slush and that modicum of ability all goes to pot. With off-piste it's the not knowing what sort of terrain/conditions I'll be dealing with that puts me off. That and whenever I've ventured into deeper snow I invariably end up on my fat butt...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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queen bodecia,
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The thought of it scares me. I'm one of these that looks reasonably competent on a nicely groomed blue or red piste. Icy/steep/bumps/slush and that modicum of ability all goes to pot. With off-piste it's the not knowing what sort of terrain/conditions I'll be dealing with that puts me off. That and whenever I've ventured into deeper snow I invariably end up on my fat butt...
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Describes me to the letter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle, nice to know I'm not alone in my level of incompetence. I suspect there are many more too. Some of whom wouldn't want to admit to it...
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mugen, Like kitenski, says depends what you want to do. Some off piste is easier than a lot of on piste skiing.
You have to be able to recognise where is going to be safe and enjoyable first of all then ski it.
It is usually stated that you need to be competent on red runs before embarking on off piste.
But both Competent on red runs and off piste can cover quite a variety of levels.
Providing you can recognise where to do it safely, usually by going with an instructor the best thing is to go and find out.
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You know it makes sense.
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mugen, Anyone can ski off piste IMO (including beginners), but it all depends on the slope. If the slope is suitable for your level then you should try it. If you were asking about serious off piste, that's another thing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| mugen, see, for example, here which indicates that SCGB require (their) red/silver on-piste standard as a base. |
thanks for that.. hmm, this is worrying as it would suggest i'm red/silver..
wouldn't have said i was ready.. i'm the fastest skier of the people i ski with, but i wouldn't say i was the best.
always feel i'm not refined enough..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My limited experience suggests that fitness is as important as skiing level.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| T Bar wrote: |
mugen, Like kitenski, says depends what you want to do. Some off piste is easier than a lot of on piste skiing.
You have to be able to recognise where is going to be safe and enjoyable first of all then ski it.
It is usually stated that you need to be competent on red runs before embarking on off piste.
But both Competent on red runs and off piste can cover quite a variety of levels.
Providing you can recognise where to do it safely, usually by going with an instructor the best thing is to go and find out. |
so are you saying it's as much to do with(if not more important) a feel for the conditions as ability
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| richmond wrote: |
| My limited experience suggests that fitness is as important as skiing level. |
my fitness is ok, i'm in the gym 6 days a week.. having said that i drink beer 6 days a week
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just get some fat skis, the rest is simple.
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mugen,
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so are you saying it's as much to do with(if not more important) a feel for the conditions as ability
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What I'm meaning is that being able to assess the conditions is important both to judge what the snow is likely to be like to ski and for the important stuff like knowing you are not going to go over a cliff down a crevasse onto a slope that is ridiculously icy and steep that you have an exit strategy and the much discussed awareness of avalanche conditions.
Trying out lightly angled stuff close to the piste as a start can get rid of most of the worries though.
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mugen, easiski, is right when she says even beginners can try it. I didn't do it 'seriously' but our instructor in VT last year very much encouraged my beginners group to spend a respectable amount of time trying the ungroomed area outside the piste poles following a dump of fresh snow. It did us no harm and was useful in showing us how different the conditions could get. Mind you it will be a long time before I want to try it properly - if ever!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, slight overstatement. There's a lot of conditions a pair of fat ski won't help much with and you can't always pick and choose where and what you ski.
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rich, True; eyes, legs, snow, a slope and a brain are handy too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| rich, True; eyes, legs, snow, a slope and a brain are handy too. |
hmm the brain bit might be a problem...................
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, that vid is an excellent example of how important it is to have the skill of side slipping in your tool belt 
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You know it makes sense.
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thanks for that.. unfortunately i'm not going to sign up for a facebook account anytime soon.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum, I was actually talking about 1st weekers. Beginners, (in general) are people in their first week of skiing. After that you could be a novice or an int ....I won't say it! You are lots more experienced.
we made tracks on the nursery slopes last week with peeps in their 5th day - they loved it and are now planning to ski 3 + weeks a year to be able to do 'the real thing' (ie: drop off the Thuit path or go into Rachas) within 5 years. Do-able. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I attempted knee deep powder on my 2nd or 3rd day skiing. I fell over. A lot.
Several years later I still fall over. But I get more turns in between doing so
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The biggest difference between on-piste and off-piste skiing is not ability but responsibility.
On-piste, the patrolers take the responsibility to make the terrain safe and by using coloured posts, give you an indication of the difficulty of the route.
Off-piste, you make the choice of route that you judge to be safe and within your ability.
But a side effect of the process of preparing the pistes is that the variation in terrain and conditions is reduced. If on-piste conditions were graded 1 to 10, off piste would be graded 1 to 20.
So, off-piste is not necessarily going to be any more difficult than on-piste, it just depends on your choice of route.
There are often times when much of the off piste terrain will be hard packed and grippy while the pistes are just icy.
In fact, in many situations, an off-piste route can be decidedly easier than its on-piste alternative. Take for example, a steepish section of a busy blue run home at around 3:30PM. This may be crowded with tired and nervous skiers wishing they were already home and that all the other skiers (just like them) weren't there. The surface becomes scraped clear by worried ploughers and side slippers, with the exception of the occasional 'mountainous' mogul of loose snow, usually with a paralysed skier atop it, desperately trying to find the courage to make the next turn.
Compare that to the slightly mogulled but nevertheless, nicely grippy snow 3 meters to the other side of the piste markers and it's clear what the easy option is - it's just that you may need to steer around a rock that would be considered too much of a hazard in the middle of a blue piste.
Though he may come over a little blasé, SMALLZOOKEEPER's point is valid. The type of skis you use, matters hugely. While sharp edged slalom skis may be fine for certain off-piste conditions, the circumstances that present the most difficulty to ski are typically best dealt with by fatter skis. They float better, they don't break through crust so easily and they even out the terrain when it's varied, chopped up or generally cruddy. They usually turn just as well on their tails as they do their fronts so they are much more forgiving of errors and less reactive to inconsistencies in the terrain. They wont make you an expert skier but they will make a far wider range of conditions fun rather than hard work.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You assume we have a Facebook log-in 
| admin wrote: |
| Off-piste, you make the choice of route that you judge to be safe and within your ability. |
Safe not only for your self but for those who may be beneath you. Skiers have been caught in avalanches triggered from above. Often not a problem - but something to be aware of.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have just started to venture off piste and would agree with Admins point about taking personel responsibility if you go off piste. Currently I will only go off piste where I can see the exit back on to on piste and the route I will be taking in between .
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Admin's point makes perfect sense to me. This year my 9yr old pestered the living daylights out of me to let her go down the wall, a black, in our little Swiss resort - most of the week it wasn't a particularly easy ski - snow wise, but on the last Friday I relented and my Swiss friend's son, also 9, but a demon skier took her down with him - in patches it was well scraped and icy and she slipped over at one point and luckily didn't slide any distance. Immediately afterwards I saw that her friend had taken her off piste but about 20m to work the deeper, but more fluffy snow that presented for less hazard from a falling perspective - the pitch was still the same, but there was more snow to get a grip in - it was already reasonably tracked and from that perspective I guess was a fairly safe choice and certainly looked from my perspective (waiting at the bottom with my heart in my mouth) to be the lesser of the two evils.
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For what it's worth: pistetopowder in St Anton have four levels of offpiste groups. Level 1 requires people to be strong black run skiers.
Of course, this doesn't mean that a little offpiste cannot be tried much earlier (even my wife went off the side of a blue run with her instructor, and she's a beginner). But if a skier isn't at least reasonably confident on black runs, he/she shouldn't go far away from a piste, especially in more challenging snow conditions.
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FAQ
We'll have to make sure Philippe brings a rope this year 