 Poster: A snowHead
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| T Bar wrote: |
mugen,
Personal experience is that if gear can stand up to driving rain in the cairngorms it will take anything the alps throws at it.
Driving rain is a lot harder on clothes than cold snow which basically brushes off.
Windproof and then layering is what tends to count when skiing.
Personally I find jackets of virtually any brand I have used will do fine untill I'm bored or they get ripped on trees, carrying skis etc.
Trousers I am fairly hard on and better made ones last a fair bit longer. They also are nicer on wet chair lifts for the first couple of weeks that the material remains reasonably waterproof.
Different folk find different things but if your clothes do well in the Cairngorms I doubt you will have top worry overmuch about other places. |
thats the thing so far i've been fine up at aviemore.. been there quite a few days this year, not a long drive for me. Now if only we could cut down the wind up there 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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mugen,
If you've been fine in Aviemore in bad conditions your kit should be up to anywhere I've been.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For what it's worth, I've just gone - this season from D2B to North Face, there is NO comparison, IMHO. It's simply brilliant kit. Bottom line is - you've got to compare, if you don't have the 'spare cash' to buy or try 'more expensve /better gear' you'll never know.
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| allanm wrote: |
| For what it's worth, I've just gone - this season from D2B to North Face, there is NO comparison, IMHO. It's simply brilliant kit. Bottom line is - you've got to compare, if you don't have the 'spare cash' to buy or try 'more expensve /better gear' you'll never know. |
yes but what it the difference you notice..
as far as i can see north face is one of the cheaper "brands"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| mugen wrote: |
| as far as i can see north face is one of the cheaper "brands" |
Quite a few ski schools use North Face Free Thinker jacket and pants. If it's good enough kit for them to be on the hill all day, every day I'd guess that it would be OK for occasional use by recreational skiers. The fact that North Face also do some "High Street" clothing wuold only matter if you put brand before performance.
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hi mugen,me and my gf do as you do..we get all our stuff in tk's or on ebay..if something is rrp'd at 3-400 quid and you can get it for 100 then i think it is worth it and not expensive..a good pair of gloves, salopettes and jacket are essential..you wear them for a few trips and if you have bought quality and brand name items you can get back what you paid or close to it..no brainer!!
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| snowpatrol wrote: |
| hi mugen,me and my gf do as you do..we get all our stuff in tk's or on ebay..if something is rrp'd at 3-400 quid and you can get it for 100 then i think it is worth it and not expensive..a good pair of gloves, salopettes and jacket are essential..you wear them for a few trips and if you have bought quality and brand name items you can get back what you paid or close to it..no brainer!! |
yup same here, right now is great for cheapo stuff.
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mugen, As far as I can tell, and I own a fair bit of North Face kit, they have a range of standards. They have their own HyVent fabric which is the cgeaper end of the market but go through to using gore-tex etc for the more discerning punter. Their Summit-series gear tends to be bomber. I think they brought out some more ski specific stufff this year. Now is the time to be buying kit there seem to be tons of bargains out there at the mo
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| MJS wrote: |
| mugen, As far as I can tell, and I own a fair bit of North Face kit, they have a range of standards. They have their own HyVent fabric which is the cgeaper end of the market but go through to using gore-tex etc for the more discerning punter. Their Summit-series gear tends to be bomber. I think they brought out some more ski specific stufff this year. Now is the time to be buying kit there seem to be tons of bargains out there at the mo |
yea great time to buy kit, have a fair amount of stuff ordered. probably never wear some of the stuff...
mind you not about to buy a killy jacket that has had it's price "slashed" to £400
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I was one of these who thought 'cheap kit' was as good as 'Brand Names' - you can get 'ski jackets' in TK max for 50 quid - or 90 for a 'good one').
See this thread, I've completely changed my tune on this now. http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=45728&highlight=
Having bought North Face for this (half) season I've completely changed my mind. Trouble is, you can trial ski's as I have, and immediately see a difference, but unless you splash out the 200+ squids you will never know with jackets, or other clothing, and having not used 'better' kit you'll probably argue that the cheaper is as good, as I did. It simply isn't. There are hundreds of reviews on the web about these, read those by seasonaires, owners, etc etc, not thse who have done done a week in Val Despair.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| allanm wrote: |
I was one of these who thought 'cheap kit' was as good as 'Brand Names' - you can get 'ski jackets' in TK max for 50 quid - or 90 for a 'good one').
See this thread, I've completely changed my tune on this now. http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=45728&highlight=
Having bought North Face for this (half) season I've completely changed my mind. Trouble is, you can trial ski's as I have, and immediately see a difference, but unless you splash out the 200+ squids you will never know with jackets, or other clothing, and having not used 'better' kit you'll probably argue that the cheaper is as good, as I did. It simply isn't. There are hundreds of reviews on the web about these, read those by seasonaires, owners, etc etc, not thse who have done done a week in Val Despair.
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had a quick look at the thread and to be honest most of the initial discussion was on "coolness" and how it looked or was perrceived by others.
what i was trying to understand is the actual benefit beyond the brand.
so far no one has come up with technical reasons or design reasons.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
allanm wrote:
I was one of these who thought 'cheap kit' was as good as 'Brand Names' - you can get 'ski jackets' in TK max for 50 quid - or 90 for a 'good one').
See this thread, I've completely changed my tune on this now. http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=45728&highlight=
Having bought North Face for this (half) season I've completely changed my mind. Trouble is, you can trial ski's as I have, and immediately see a difference, but unless you splash out the 200+ squids you will never know with jackets, or other clothing, and having not used 'better' kit you'll probably argue that the cheaper is as good, as I did. It simply isn't. There are hundreds of reviews on the web about these, read those by seasonaires, owners, etc etc, not thse who have done done a week in Val Despair.
had a quick look at the thread and to be honest most of the initial discussion was on "coolness" and how it looked or was perrceived by others.
what i was trying to understand is the actual benefit beyond the brand.
so far no one has come up with technical reasons or design reasons
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As stated,without buying and trying i don't think anybody can explain how the improved fit,insulation(that lasts!), superior waterproofness and breathability. There is a difference but you just have to experience it!!!
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mugen, alpinequeen, Can I ask you how many weeks sking you're going to do? It's all relative, I'm back Sunday, after 8-9 weeks - I love kit kit that works, detest kit that doesn't, but, most, will put up with anything for a week. - So where are you in this???
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You know it makes sense.
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| allanm wrote: |
| mugen, alpinequeen, Can I ask you how many weeks sking you're going to do? It's all relative, I'm back Sunday, after 8-9 weeks - I love kit kit that works, detest kit that doesn't, but, most, will put up with anything for a week. - So where are you in this??? |
only 2.5 weeks away this year.
several weekends at aviemore
some weekdays at aviemore, same for glenshee (alright 2 days there)
at least once a week at braehead snozone, but i dont think that counts as it's akin to sitting in the fridge for an hour
and so far nothing to complain about my kit apart from the internal linning of a pair of trousers getting ripped, but that was far more to do with me stabbing myself with my ski pole..
hows that do?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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mugen, Ok, fine, you're happy with what you have, thats what's most important!!! and you have fun too. My point, didn't really make it very well is that, I can lay down, waiting for others to 'arrive' on the slushiest awful bit of 'piste' and.... I can sit on a lift covered in wet snow and not worry about getin a wet ar$e - can U do that?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| allanm wrote: |
| mugen, Ok, fine, you're happy with what you have, thats what's most important!!! and you have fun too. My point, didn't really make it very well is that, I can lay down, waiting for others to 'arrive' on the slushiest awful bit of 'piste' and.... I can sit on a lift covered in wet snow and not worry about getin a wet ar$e - can U do that? |
dont know about slushy snow but have been out for whole day in bansko with rain pissing down and the only thing that gave up was my gloves.
otherwise i was bone dry. same with aviemore. howling wind (when's it not) and i was fine, actually surprised how warm i was. thats what kind of led to the question.
not trying to be an inverted snob, quite happy to buy good gear if it is noticeably better, but not a label whore..
so far haven't been let down, hence the question.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
otherwise i was bone dry. same with aviemore. howling wind (when's it not) and i was fine, actually surprised how warm i was. thats what kind of led to the question.
not trying to be an inverted snob, quite happy to buy good gear if it is noticeably better, but not a label whore..
so far haven't been let down, hence the question.
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I think you've answered your own original question. You like what you have and it performs to the levels you require. In your case expensive kit is not worth it!!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| mugen wrote: |
dont know about slushy snow but have been out for whole day in bansko with rain pissing down and the only thing that gave up was my gloves.
otherwise i was bone dry. same with aviemore. howling wind (when's it not) and i was fine, actually surprised how warm i was. thats what kind of led to the question.
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What jacket was this? It sounds amazing.
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Yes and I can see many bunny rabbits and other cuddly little animals in Les Arcs, in fact, les Arcs is such a lovely place.
Forgot 2 say, I edited this post - he he!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, Blimey,, Me tooo!!! I want one... to try, anyway!
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| mugen wrote: |
dont know about slushy snow but have been out for whole day in bansko with rain pissing down and the only thing that gave up was my gloves.
otherwise i was bone dry. same with aviemore. howling wind (when's it not) and i was fine, actually surprised how warm i was. thats what kind of led to the question.
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What jacket was this? It sounds amazing. |
glad your amazed. seeing as it is soo good i think i will keep it my little secret.. dont want posh folks buying one
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mugen, maybe you've found the ultimate jacket, awesome in all conditions and cost peanuts.
Unfortunately I have to resort to fairly expensive technical gear to be confident I'm going to stay warm, dry and comfortable in a wide range of conditions. I know from experience that a good quality 3 layer system eg. Icebreaker base and mid layers plus a Goretex Proshell will work equally well from -40C to +5C without worrying about being too hot or too cold. It just works every time and always feels light and comfortable. I also know from experience that it will stand up to many seasons of use without any noticeable degradation. Rain isn't really an issue for me when skiing, but the shell works really well as a UK raincoat. The rain just beads up and literally falls off it, so the outer layer doesn't even get wet, never mind inside. Now I've never seen a cheap breathable jacket do that properly and certainly not after a couple of washes.
The Marmot Proshell jacket I've got at the moment cost £200 (reduced from £300 in the sales). So far it's done around 60 days skiing plus a fair bit of everyday use at home. It looks brand new and is still genuinely waterproof after several washes. I've also got an older Dainese XCR jacket I've had for 4 seasons which isn't showing any signs of its age after 100+ days skiing. In fact it's totally bombproof. I've also got a 10+ year old Eider Goretex jacket I still wear for gardening and washing the car. It honestly doesn't look like it's much more than a couple of years old.
Now over the years I've had to wear literally dozens of cheap 'ski type' jackets and fleeces for work, which have been invariably shite. They all suffer from one or more of the following problems:-
1/ Stitching falls apart
2/ Fabric tears when you simply look at it
3/ Outer layer waterproofing only lasts until the first wash
4/ Cuffs wear through quickly
5/ You get hot and sweaty
6/ You get cold
7/ It feels bulky, heavy or both
8/ The zips fail
9/ The fit is terrible
10/ Lining falls apart
11/ It smells bad
Seriously I'm not joking.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
mugen, maybe you've found the ultimate jacket, awesome in all conditions and cost peanuts.
Unfortunately I have to resort to fairly expensive technical gear to be confident I'm going to stay warm, dry and comfortable in a wide range of conditions. I know from experience that a good quality 3 layer system eg. Icebreaker base and mid layers plus a Goretex Proshell will work equally well from -40C to +5C without worrying about being too hot or too cold. It just works every time and always feels light and comfortable. I also know from experience that it will stand up to many seasons of use without any noticeable degradation. Rain isn't really an issue for me when skiing, but the shell works really well as a UK raincoat. The rain just beads up and literally falls off it, so the outer layer doesn't even get wet, never mind inside. Now I've never seen a cheap breathable jacket do that properly and certainly not after a couple of washes.
The Marmot Proshell jacket I've got at the moment cost £200 (reduced from £300 in the sales). So far it's done around 60 days skiing plus a fair bit of everyday use at home. It looks brand new and is still genuinely waterproof after several washes. I've also got an older Dainese XCR jacket I've had for 4 seasons which isn't showing any signs of its age after 100+ days skiing. In fact it's totally bombproof. I've also got a 10+ year old Eider Goretex jacket I still wear for gardening and washing the car. It honestly doesn't look like it's much more than a couple of years old.
Now over the years I've had to wear literally dozens of cheap 'ski type' jackets and fleeces for work, which have been invariably shite. They all suffer from one or more of the following problems:-
1/ Stitching falls apart
2/ Fabric tears when you simply look at it
3/ Outer layer waterproofing only lasts until the first wash
4/ Cuffs wear through quickly
5/ You get hot and sweaty
6/ You get cold
7/ It feels bulky, heavy or both
8/ The zips fail
9/ The fit is terrible
10/ Lining falls apart
11/ It smells bad
Seriously I'm not joking. |
thanks for that, that was the kind info i was looking for.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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T K MAX for me i kitted myself and my son for under TWO HUNDRED pounds with some very good gear and he is a very fussy customer
in my opinion Spyder cloths look nuff and i do see a lot of them on the slopes and i am always thinking what a waste of good money
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| grivas wrote: |
T K MAX for me i kitted myself and my son for under TWO HUNDRED pounds with some very good gear and he is a very fussy customer
in my opinion Spyder cloths look nuff and i do see a lot of them on the slopes and i am always thinking what a waste of good money |
a lot of the more expensive stuff does look like it was designed by the guy that did the 80's RELAX tshirts...
other stuff i might add looks quite ok
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I use my shell jackets for winter climbing and you do need a decent level quality to withstand being dragged over rocks and ice by a terrified wobbler whilst being covered in dangling bits of metal. Skiing is a low wear situation by comparison.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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TKMAX is the best option I kitted my teenage son and myself for £200 and he is a fussy customer
I see a lot of skiers with spyder gear on and i cant help thinking what a waste of good money and in my opinion the cloths look pretty nuff
as for ebay forget it , its all fakes TK max has some very fasionable brands with all the gizmos that come with the modern jackets nowdays
by the way i will never change my merc
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Are you sure that's the jacket's fault? 
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You know it makes sense.
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Yeah, I've even had ones that smell like fish inside when new
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It depends on when you draw the line on the conditions and how much you ski. Cheap gear isn't going to cut it when it's nuking, windy and cold as hell and you will probably overheat touring, bootpacking and spring skiing. Cheap gear is also going to fall to bits on you if you are doing a reasonable about of days/season and you will have to replace it anyway. If you buy a shell you can use it for UK hill walking etc. too.
A lot of stuff out there is overpriced, usually especially anything marketed strongly as skiwear. Spyder is for posers with too much money. Inevitably the price/performance ratio with anything departs from being linear once you reach high end gear as with anything though.
I just bought gore tex pro shell jacket and pants for £300 picked up in the sales and that is pretty near the top end in gear for skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Seriously, what is with the anti-Spyder attitude, sure it has made some pish gear but they are coming out with some good stuff again and have done for the past couple of years. Stop jumping on the band wagon of 'Spyder is for fat English men with too much money' and form some of your own opinions from experience.
Love and kisses,
Happy-Spyder-Wearer
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| arv wrote: |
| Seriously, what is with the anti-Spyder attitude, |
Plenty of inverse snobbery around here. You see it in criticism of people's choice of skiwear brand and in choice of ski resort.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| arv wrote: |
| Seriously, what is with the anti-Spyder attitude, |
Plenty of inverse snobbery around here. You see it in criticism of people's choice of skiwear brand and in choice of ski resort. |
there have been displays of snobbery inverse or otherwise but it's only natural.
but (again) the original question wasn't intended to for that reason.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| mugen wrote: |
there have been displays of snobbery inverse or otherwise but it's only natural.
but (again) the original question wasn't intended to for that reason. |
I find the snobbery quite distasteful rather than natural. Skiwear is a matter of choice and opinion. The original question was indeed a sensible one trying to understand what might account for differences between cheap and expensive kit, but snobbery and inverse snobbery soon sidetracked things.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| mugen wrote: |
there have been displays of snobbery inverse or otherwise but it's only natural.
but (again) the original question wasn't intended to for that reason. |
I find the snobbery quite distasteful rather than natural. Skiwear is a matter of choice and opinion. The original question was indeed a sensible one trying to understand what might account for differences between cheap and expensive kit, but snobbery and inverse snobbery soon sidetracked things. |
it's not only a matter of choice, it's also a matter of budget.
my own preferance is that i can have a lot of kit for little outlay. 5 jackets so far this year (i know, i know).
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| Quote: |
| Seriously, what is with the anti-Spyder attitude |
I own (and love) a Spyder soft shell and a Spyder raider gillet and have owned several other Spyder jackets throughout my life. I've also owned several Sprayway, TNF and (now) Arc'teryx jackets. I find the styling of most of the main-line Spyder jackets rather pretentious and stuck in a void somewhere between 1980 and today. They use their own gimmicky materials and liners that tests show underperform the market leaders like Gore-tex and eVent but charge significantly more than even top-of-the-line mountaineering/skiing cross-over brands like Arc'teryx, TNF etc that use the superior materials. A bit like Bogner, Duvillard, Prada ski and that god-awful E+O, Spyder seem to aim more at those going for fashion or brand-name over performance. Take away their name, associated image and questionable styling and they look quite a bit like Columbia, only twice the price. Their accessories (gloves, hats etc) and their racing gear are all top-notch, but their jackets leave me cold.
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| Quote: |
There are hundreds of reviews on the web about these, read those by seasonaires, owners, etc etc, not thse who have done done a week in Val Despair.
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I wore a £50 Trespass jacket from TK Maxx for 3 solid seasons (from Christmas to close of play, except for 4 weeks of the French school holidays). It was fine, layered up as necessary with good quality and compatible undergarments, and very comfortable (I tried on loads of very uncomfortable ones, including some more expensive efforts). I's essential to wash it carefully with Techwash or similar, and avoid detergents, like any similar clothing. But I am just an ordinary skier who gets taken up mountains in lifts and doesn't go skiing in the rain, thanks. I'm sure you need better stuff for ski-mountaineering etc but only a tiny fraction of the people buying £400+ jackets are using them for ski mountaineering. Most of them are poncing around on chairlifts. I got bored with my Trespass jacket in the end but still wear it for digging the path out or putting on snow chains and it's still going strong. In my experience people who do a week a year in Val Despair are at least as likely to buy unnecessarily expensive new gear every year as those spending seasons in the mountains.
Shops like Au Vieux Campeur are, at present, stuffed with excellent gear at sale prices (I have to avert my gaze as I go past). Even if you need high spec gear you don't have to pay a fortune for it unless you want to.
Some of the expensive jackets are lovely - there are some very nice Degré 7 ones about at the moment - but some are truly grim. I suppose it's a matter of priorities. I could afford a fancy jacket if I gave it priority, I suppose, but prefer to spend money on season lift passes and skis - bought the OH a nice pair of Rossignol World Cup Oversize yesterday, 30% off in the sale but still well over six times the cost of my faithful Trespass jacket.
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When I frist started skiing I bought a cheap ski jacket...never again. Half of my problems on the slope were from me freezing my butt off!! I've got a really nice Spider jacket with lot of lining, I bought it on sale so it wasn't the colour style I would have bought if I had my pick of everything in the shop, but it is SO warm and has seen me through about 4 years of skiing. I was going to buy another jacket this year, something warm and funky, but think the prices this year will be through the roof!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Have a Schoffel Daron jacket and Arc'teryx Stinger jacket. Both awesome. Expensive - yes! Do I regret paying the money - not in the slightest. I spend maybe 40 - 50 days a year on snow, and will ski in just about anything except heavy rain, so I am prepared to pay if that means being comfortable.
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And I thought down under was hot and dry. Going by what Satina and ulmerhutte have got to say, it sounds colder and wetter than Scotland down there. 
To me though (depending on what you'd call expensive) because I've never felt unhappy with what's inside my budget, expensive ski wear isn't worth it unless it's expensive ski wear that's attached to my feet. I couldn't sleep easy at night if I'd forked out 300+ on a jacket or pants. Far better is not to go skiing in the rain and to spend the extra money on a few extra days skiing, new planks and beer. Jackets will therefore always have a maximum price tag of 100, salopettes maximum 50, gloves 30, helmet 70, snood 10, socks 15. I did by an Osprey Switch pack (purpose built for carrying skis on long climbs) for the best part of 100 a couple of years ago as it's neccessary for day touring but that was the most expensive ski equipment purchase I've made outwith hardware.
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FAQ
