 Poster: A snowHead
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was in ellis brigham's the other day and noticed their ski wear was on sale.
great you might think..
but god do they want a lot for it....
i've been buying from tkmaxx and ebay (new stuff) and it's been quite reasonably priced.
even got trousers for £16 from dare2be website.
so is a £300 jacket worth it. had a look and i'm not seeing it.
is it a label thing or is there a benefit.. i'm more than happy with my (mainly) dare2be stuff.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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mugen, if you're warm, dry and happy with your kit then stick with it.
You undoubtedly pay a premium for branded kit, but some IMHO some brands, like Arc'tyrex, are worth the premium.
I personally have never had any luck with cheaper kit. But my experience with branded stuff hasn't been universally positive either.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Its the materials that they use in the expensive stuff like Goretex XCR. Its totally breathable ansd stops you sweating up. But you've got to wear it with other breathable layers. Worn properly they are very comfortable and you can usually get away with wearing less layers.
Its expensive but much better value in the sale and IMHO the styles of the dearer stuff is much nicer.
You pays your money and takes youir choice, but your dare2be stuff will weigh twice as much as a top of the range jacket.
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On really wet days I've been very glad a paid a premium for Goretex fabric. More expensive brands might be more robust, but I don't ski enough to test my skiwear to destruction so that's not much of an issue for me. Expensive brands might well have some good design features such as pockets in the right place or a fancy hood system, but you can decide if things like that are necessary to you before you buy. Beyond that I buy what I like the look of, which sometimes is expensive and sometimes isn't.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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paying full retail is a mug's game IMO
my current jacket retails at £300+ (Patagonia Primo somethingorother) and I paid about £100 for it (brand new) on ebay. bargain at £100 IMO; couldn't bring myself to part with £300 even though it is really nice
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Last year EB's gave great discounts on Arc'teryx kit. The Sidewinder SV jacket is superb. At £430 RRP it's damned expensive but it was reduced to £250 in last years EB sale for the latest Goretex Pro version with the revised snow skirt & helmet compatible hood. Excellent value at that price.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
mugen, if you're warm, dry and happy with your kit then stick with it.
You undoubtedly pay a premium for branded kit, but some IMHO some brands, like Arc'tyrex, are worth the premium.
I personally have never had any luck with cheaper kit. But my experience with branded stuff hasn't been universally positive either. |
interestingly i was up at aviemore a couple of weeks ago and it was blowing a gale and snowing and was quite surprised that felt totally warm and comfortable. The only thing that did let me down was my gloves.. and they weren't cheap..
also been on holiday and been out when it was chucking it down with rain all day on the montain and been fine with the cheap kit.. obviously haven't had a nightmare with them yet..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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mugen, and often better kit lasts better. I use Decathlon for underwear and light fleeces (as it's exactly the same fabric as in many more expensive brands).
But for the stuff bearing the brunt of it, I'll pay for the technology. Flipside is that although my Mountain Hardwear shell will probably be replaced next year and will cost ~£350 (full retail) to do so, it's done 9 seasons = ~75 holiday week equivalents (i.e. ~ 450 ski days). And I'll ski in all weather so it's had to keep me dry when that wasn't easy quite a few times.
It's still waterproof, breathable and only just getting that slightly ragged and worn look.
Bargain.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I don't ski enough to test my skiwear to destruction
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I wonder how many of us do? I have worn the ex-hire (but apparently pretty brand new) Columbia trousers I bought in Filarinski for £10 for over 12 weeks this season - they're fine. Certainly I ride up in lifts - they wouldn't be what I'd want if I was a ski mountaineer but there's no doubt that as Arno said, most gear is massively over-specified for what we do with it. I have an old Goretex Eider shell jacket which had nothing wrong with it - just got rather bored after three seasons - but it still keeps me completely dry if I walk in the rain in it.
The question "is expensive gear worth it" can only be answered by saying "that all depends what's important to you". But for 99% of us, the question "is expensive gear necessary" can be answered by "No". It does amaze me that some people buy stuff at full price though. My current jacket, Eider, was not very expensive in the first place and was significantly reduced in Go Sport, end of season. I chose it because it was comfortable (first priority) and had plenty of pockets in the right place. The hood got taken straight off, because I wear a helmet. I'm a bit bored with that too, now, but having looked in a lot of shops, in a half hearted sort of way, I've not seen anything sufficiently better to warrant parting with money for. My OH has a superb pair of Rossignol trousers, which look really good, are now on their 5th season and were £125 in T K Maxx.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
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I don't ski enough to test my skiwear to destruction
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I wonder how many of us do? |
I eventually killed my Arcteryx Jacket after losing my footing while traversing an icy ridge and sliding down a rocky slope. It had lasted 4 years (ca 120 days skiing) but after washing and reproofing so many times it's breathability was greatly reduced from when it was new. I now prefer to pay less per jacket and change the jacket more often.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| mugen, and often better kit lasts better. ... |
It sure does. The question is what is 'better'. My Keela jacket has been is some pretty extreme conditions - blizzard, and wet, and done at least as well as Goretex jackets I have had in the past. Heck, it's good enough for the Scottish Mountain Rescue people. It's practical and rugged, with an easily pulled-down hood, and a detachable snow skirt. At between £125 or £141 (depending on your snowhead membership class) it does show that good kit need not be expensive - provided you are not after making a fashion statement.
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You know it makes sense.
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another thing to think about is resale value. i got a top of the line Scott jacket for £150 (RRP £300), used it for a season then flogged it on ebay for £70. i am sure big brands are easier to resell (no, i don't have any evidence to back this up)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I find shelling out a bit more for higher quality, bigger name gear that have xcr or equivalent fabrics is worth it solely because i sweat a lot when skiing/hill-walking/climbing. in cheaper ski-wear i just steam up. fully waterproof zippers on jackets, and pockets to carry transceivers and other avalanche gear is also useful which the more budget clothing lines don't always have. and also, if you're skiing for 20-30 days at least a season, the marginal cost of the more expensive, longer lasting equipment isn't really an issue.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles, good point. e.g. there are many highly performant breathable membranes on the market, paying for Goretex XCR (f'rinstance) just to get the name is not necessary. And expensive isn't necessarily better.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've always thought top end technical ski wear is worth having. There is a real difference, it's certainly not just branding. The differences are not always obvious in the shop, but they soon start to show up when you wear them day in and day out on the mountain. But there are also inevitably diminishing returns as you spend more.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Arno wrote: |
| another thing to think about is resale value. i got a top of the line Scott jacket for £150 (RRP £300), used it for a season then flogged it on ebay for £70. i am sure big brands are easier to resell (no, i don't have any evidence to back this up) |
fair point, that said i dont get rid of anything that way.
usually works this way for me. skiing--->dog walking--->working on car/diy(disasters)--->duster...
so will get fair use out of my £16 trousers and £25 jacket 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I paid £50 for a jacket from TK MAXX in December, I bought it as I liked the colour and thought I would only use it for work. One day I decided to ski in it. Wow. It's so comfortable, great features, breathable and all round better than my £400 Mammut with Goretex Pro Shell!
And it looks great in photos... [/photoslut]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
even got trousers for £16 from dare2be website.
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In my experience of this brand providing nobody breathes in your direction you remain dry and warm!!!!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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£300 is not really expensive for jacket. Bogner and Lasse Kjus jackets are around 1000eur (around £900). And yes for me personally those jackets are way too expensive. They are not any better, to be honest Bogner jackets are crap, then "cheap" ones which you get for around 400-600eur. Materials are quite same too, comparing for example Lasse Kjus with half so expensive Halti for example. Once again, most of stuff Bogner puts out is fancy, but useless for skiing. But then again, most of people who buy 1000+eur Bogner jackets are "skiing" in apres ski zones, where technical design of jacket doesn't play much of a role
Otherwise I agree that jackets costing around 400-500eur are a lot better then those costing 100 or 200eur. Now is it worth paying so much more? For me yes, but I spend out in snow pretty much every day between October and April. If you are going to ski 3 times a year, then it's really not worth spending so much.
PS: Just short info to joker who mentioned totally breathable Goretex Try to put it on, and do some physical activity... preferably in rain You will see it leaks water, but doesn't let your sweat going out Completely breathable canvas is marketing joke, which never works, no matter if it's called Gore, Drymax or whatever they want to call them. Unfortunately I have used pretty much every possible material on market in last 20-25 years, and not even one works the way they want us to believe.
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Hello, primoz.
Will agree on 'doesn't let your sweat out', the mechanism being condensation of sweat on the inner surface because the membrane itself is cold from all the water outside of it. Which, of, course, sets up just the right conditions for osmosis into the jacket.
But, I do have to disagree here, £300 is an expensive jacket whether or not one can find pricier ones.
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| Quote: |
If you are going to ski 3 times a year, then it's really not worth spending so much.
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iI only ski 3 times a year but even so, i like to be protected from the elements so compromising on the quality of products i use would compromise the enjoyment i get from my favourite sport.
What i find even stranger is first time skiers who have been sold cheap gloves by the salesperson in store as it is there first time. Surely early year skiers should by gloves with a high level of waterproofness as due to the nature of learning they are more likely to have there hands in the snow falling etc than a more experienced skier.
I genuinely think,within reason, you should aim to buy the highest performance product that you can afford. This,as mentioned before,does not mean the most expensive.
As a guideline for myself to allow for nearly all winter throws at you 20,000 mm of waterproofness/breathability is the minimum that i would consider. Gore tex offers 28,000 mm as a minimum in ski jackets
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| alpinequeen wrote: |
What i find even stranger is first time skiers who have been sold cheap gloves by the salesperson in store as it is there first time. Surely early year skiers should by gloves with a high level of waterproofness as due to the nature of learning they are more likely to have there hands in the snow falling etc than a more experienced skier.
I genuinely think,within reason, you should aim to buy the highest performance product that you can afford. This,as mentioned before,does not mean the most expensive.
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You're assuming that first time skiers are as financially committed to the sport as you are.
In fact they patently have -no idea- how much enjoyment they can get out of skiing and therefore cannot evaluate how much that pleasure is worth.
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Comprex don't get me wrong. Yes I agree £300 is A LOT for jacket... actually not a lot, but way too much. But compared to other ski jackets on market, it's not that expensive.
Alpinequeen sure I agree you want to be protected even those 3 times. But point in all this is somewhere else... 100eur jacket will protect you just as good as 1000eur jacket, or at least almost as good. Main difference is, that expensive jacket lasts longer, and if you use it regularly it's worth paying more. For those 3 times, even cheap one won't get bad, so that's why I said it's not worth it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| alpinequeen wrote: |
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even got trousers for £16 from dare2be website.
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In my experience of this brand providing nobody breathes in your direction you remain dry and warm!!!!!! |
been fine for me so far.. also got a protest jacket and that was fine as well..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
You're assuming that first time skiers are as financially committed to the sport as you are.
In fact they patently have -no idea- how much enjoyment they can get out of skiing and therefore cannot evaluate how much that pleasure is worth.
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Agreed- However one thing is sure-Cold,wet hands will not encourage anybody to return to the slopes. If you shop around you can get perfectly gloves for £20-£30 which,if you can afford to go to the mountains, shouldn't stratch you too far.
The most mis-leading,from what i have been told, is the guidelines to allow a garment to have a "waterproof" label on it is around 1500mm of waterproofness which is woefully inadequate to protect you from mountain conditions
| Quote: |
In fact they patently have -no idea- how much enjoyment they can get out of skiing and therefore cannot evaluate how much that pleasure is worth.
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Then seek trustworthy sites etc for advice prior to going such as snowheads
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| Quote: |
if you're skiing for 20-30 days at least a season, the marginal cost of the more expensive, longer lasting equipment isn't really an issue.
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It is if you then burn holes in it while fixing someone's orange juice machine. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Obviously expensive branded gear is way out of my price range. My stuff is a mixture of Brugi, Decathlon and Mountain Warehouse and no single piece cost more than £40. It's getting on a bit now as I've had most of it for five seasons, but still in good condition, I've never had a problem keeping warm and my ski suit was reasonably waterproof skiing in the rain in Kitzbuhel last season (the pockets weren't)...
If ski gear is anything like motorcycle gear, you may find that most branded items are made in the same factories in (usually) Pakistan with the same materials and the same specifications and then branded (and priced!) at the end of the manufacturing process. With this in mind buying more expensive items simply for the label is financial madness. However, I accept that there are different qualities of materials for warmth, breathable and waterproofing purposes and these should affect the price of a product...
But to me the difference in cost between say a £30 jacket and a £500 jacket does not represent a 16-fold increase in quality. If people have lots of spare money and have to have the 'superior' designer brands, more fool them I say...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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£120 in tk-max on a dare2be jacket and salopettes. 4 weeks skiing, Hundreds of dog walks, the coat worn to work etc, and it still looks tidy and has never leaked. bargain especially as it has active thermal lining
Also ski in a RAB goose down jacket for days when snow not wet. Had that jacket for 12 years now. Been ice climbing in vail and cairngorms, skiing all over Europe and states and worn on many a cold day in UK. Chuck it in washer and tumble dryer and it comes out perfect. BUT no use at all for wet. But that one cost £350
IMHO price does not reflect quality. Each brand do high end and low end kit and if you hunt around you can get the high end kit at low end prices or just by it and be happy. Also seen very low end kit at high end prices, but then your normally paying for a trendy name
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well... my 'pre-children, got a job' ski kit was top of the range titanium lined Nevica stuff... jacket cost me £200 in a sale, and trousers were £70. The jacket was fantastic, wore it for about 4 or 5 weeks of skiing, and as a general jacket in the winter for at least 2 years, maybe more. Kept me warm and cool no matter what iyswim. I only got rid because I lost loads of weight and it was too big.
The next jacket was a Surficant from TK MAXX - assumed I'd be cold but was fine. I bought some really decent salopettes last year, but the zip broke on their first outing, I had to cobble them together for the week and got a refund when I got home.
This year I have put on a ton of weight, jacket wouldn't fit over base layers (although I wear it to do the school pickup) and last years salopettes were dead so I had to go get more stuff. Ooops - NOTHING fit, and I mean NOTHING - the ONLY pair of salopettes I could find that would go over my fat backside were in Matalan - and they were cheap, cheap, cheap (£10!). I bought a decent Billabong jacket at TK Maxx, but I was really worried that the Matalan salopettes would leave me wet and cold.
Well - we had rain on day one and I stayed dry, we had heavy snow for 4 days, and I stayed dry, we even sat on the pistes for our picnic lunches - and I was OK - started to feel a bit cold round the behind, but I think I probably would have in whatever I wore. On the two days when it was sunny I was quite comfortable, whearas I thought I would sweat to death in them as they were so nylony. So, my conclusion? The Matalan pants were just as good as my titanium lined Nevica ones for the sort of recreational skiing I do.
Hopefully next year I will be 4 stone lighter and need more new kit. Which will be a shame in one way, because I absolutely LOVED my Billabong jacket, but it was big on me this year, so if I lose weight it will be far to big next year.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
Obviously expensive branded gear is way out of my price range. My stuff is a mixture of Brugi, Decathlon and Mountain Warehouse and no single piece cost more than £40. It's getting on a bit now as I've had most of it for five seasons, but still in good condition, I've never had a problem keeping warm and my ski suit was reasonably waterproof skiing in the rain in Kitzbuhel last season (the pockets weren't)...
If ski gear is anything like motorcycle gear, you may find that most branded items are made in the same factories in (usually) Pakistan with the same materials and the same specifications and then branded (and priced!) at the end of the manufacturing process. With this in mind buying more expensive items simply for the label is financial madness. However, I accept that there are different qualities of materials for warmth, breathable and waterproofing purposes and these should affect the price of a product...
But to me the difference in cost between say a £30 jacket and a £500 jacket does not represent a 16-fold increase in quality. If people have lots of spare money and have to have the 'superior' designer brands, more fool them I say... |
very true.. some years ago my mother worked in a clothing factory (when UK had industry) and they made clothes for m+s and daks, basically the same apart from the price.
same with electronics, been in factories where ericson and motorola phones are being built next to each other. price perception plays a big part in some peoples purchasing decisions. Something i'm sure we have all been guilty of.
Hence my original question..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You get what you pay for.
Higher price = higher quality.
Fiat vs. Mercedes.
Cheap gear is for cheap people.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
You get what you pay for.
Higher price = higher quality.
Fiat vs. Mercedes.
Cheap gear is for cheap people. |
define a cheap person? is that the same as a poor person?
people that have fiat's may aspire to mercedes.. well 'cept the ones that own ferrari's (fiat own ferrari)
hope your a troll as believing that would mean your either a banker or an idiot.. hmm is there a difference
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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mugen meet Whitegold 
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It's interesting reading what different people class as "cheap" 
IMO anything over £100 for a jacket is not cheap! I think the most I've ever spent on a ski jacket is £40 (although it was reduced from about £120), and I've never had a problem. I use my ski jacket for winter walking and other than being a bit warm, it keeps me dry. I generally avoid known brand names as they tend to add price for the name, but I have to confess to liking Mountain Equipment stuff for walking - but again, I don't think I've ever paid more than 60% of the RRP.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year,
Running over the same old ground
What have you found? The same old fears.
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| Arno wrote: |
my current jacket retails at £300+ (Patagonia Primo somethingorother) and I paid about £100 for it (brand new) on ebay... |
Most of the kit on ebay is decent quality copies, but copies non the less. You are paying over the odds for a rip off model.
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FAQ
I took it back to 
credit, it did make me check the osmotic pressure of seawater (270 m of water).