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Question for the instructors - should we wear helmets when teaching?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

If there were no downsides to wearing a helmet I'd wear one all the time

What, while swimming? Walking the dog? Having sex? Shocked
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I just find it interesting that 'helmet=too hot' objection is never addressed by lighter insulation elsewhere.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Lizzard wrote:
Quote:

If there were no downsides to wearing a helmet I'd wear one all the time

What, while swimming? Walking the dog? Having sex? Shocked


Laughing maybe not while walking the dog. But swimming and sex both have their dangers...
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SnowGod wrote:
Many people who don't like helmets and/or don't want to wear one will always look for reasons / excuses / research to prove / justify its no better to wear one than to be without

I think we see the same kind of behaviour from those people who do advocate helmet use. What I don't understand is why there is any need to advocate one way or the other.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar, spot on.
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but surely where people are asked for their oppinions that is what they are giving and that is what creates the debate/discussion?...

Personally I am always in favour of head protection......... didn't used to be but................................. then sat in a hospital next to my father in laws bed listening to a beep..beep..beep..beep for ten days before deciding enough was enough and aritificial support was withdrawn and watching a man die.......... not skiing related but the coroner ruled that had my father in law been wearing a hard hat he would not have died and the Health and saftey exec ruled that it wasn;t in the public interest to pursue.................. not something I would like to see or hear of anyone having to go through in their pursuit of fun/sport.............
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
richmond wrote:
... but odd things happen.

An instructor standing around on a beginer slope teaching gotten hit by an out of control skier is no different than someone walking on a city sidewalk being hit by an out of control car/motorbike.

Should teachers wear helmet when they walk to school in order to set a good example for their students?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Well, I've had my say, but I'm there to teach people to ski or ski better, not to be a social worker. TBH I think we're all much too worried about safety these days. Children will do what they're told. If told it's coold to wear a helmet and they have to, they do. Shocked there - that will set everyone off!!! wink wink

I now have one, it's not too hot - it's too cold (my double fleecy hats are much warmer). It gives me a cold draught down the back of my neck and it hurts my ears! I can't see properly, I can't afford another €65 or more for new specs unless the old ones break. I'll wear it when I think my safety is compromised and only then. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Oh - and I smoke! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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marcellus wrote:
but surely where people are asked for their oppinions that is what they are giving and that is what creates the debate/discussion?...


I think it's possible to give opinions and share experience without advocating a particular course of action so forcefully that people with different opinions feel compelled to reply. Surely it's possible to state an opinion without suggesting that everyone else should have the same viewpoint?

Helmet wearing, or not, seems to be an emotive subject, especially if people have had a similar experience to that which you had with your father-in-law, which brings out the worst in the forum if the number of heated arguments on the subject is anything to go by.
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easiski,
Quote:

Oh - and I smoke!

Shocked Shocked You'll be telling us you drink and talk to strangers next Toofy Grin
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rob@rar, true.. but going back a few years I saw similar debates on cycling forums about helmets.. Pro riders not wearing them.. club riders saying "personal choice" tour de france saying "personal choice"............................ now mandatory for all road cyclists who race at any level must wear helmets.. can't help thinking/ believeing that skiing will go the same way and that at some point instructors will be made to pick up the mantle and champion the cause.......... just like pro riders have been forced to on bikes
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
marcellus wrote:
rob@rar, true.. but going back a few years I saw similar debates on cycling forums about helmets.. Pro riders not wearing them.. club riders saying "personal choice" tour de france saying "personal choice"............................ now mandatory for all road cyclists who race at any level must wear helmets.. can't help thinking/ believeing that skiing will go the same way and that at some point instructors will be made to pick up the mantle and champion the cause.......... just like pro riders have been forced to on bikes


Yes, that might well happen. Until that time I will continue to say that it's a personal decision because the factors that need to be weighed when deciding whether to wear one vary so much from person to person. And I'll continue to be annoyed by people who say that my personal choice is "wrong" Wink
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
easiski, I never wear a helmet when I smoke, a head injury is the last thing I worry about! wink
Freezing to death standing outside is a bigger concern. Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
easiski, try a thin buff underneath. I know exactly what you mean re: the drafts, I wear a buff with mine and it really helps, they are so thin that it certainly doesn't affect the fit of the helmet.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Or a big fleecy snood round your neck.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar, easy tiger we're close to agreeing again.........

(btw I reiterate I never said you were "wrong")
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
marcellus wrote:
.......but the coroner ruled that had my father in law been wearing a hard hat ...........


Firstly, my condolences regarding your father in law.

The hard hats I have worn for industrial situations have been enormously more robust than recreational skiing helmets (as well as a darned sight cheaper). I bet industrial safety helmets do save lives.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 24-03-09 19:53; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
marcellus, and you'll find a similar helmet wearing requirement in competitive skiing today - even for amateur events like the Inferno. Helmet required.
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so is that drip, drip, drip.... soon helmets to be compulsory for all and end of helmet debates??
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
marcellus, could be. Rather sad, innit.
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achilles, i do actually agree with you......... whilst I believe helmets should be worn I do also believe that everyone should be able to make their own choices.....
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, beanie1, I have a sort of thin beanie for under the helmet and I do have various neck warmers which all serve to stop me zipping up the jacket properly! Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
achilles, I'm surprised by your comments about industrial helmets - what sort do you have experience of? I've had to wear the obligatory 'Bob the Builder' style white/yellow/blue/green etc. molded plastic protective helmet in a number of different situations and despite owning a number of different ones over the years I wouldn't say any of them would have afforded me the protection that my el cheapo (though properly EC marked) ski helmet would give me.
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marcellus, no, that wasn't my point. You have analogous requirements for cycle competitions without legislation to wear helmets recreationally. I'd expect the same (as is currently the case) for skiing...
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Lizzard wrote:
Quote:

If there were no downsides to wearing a helmet I'd wear one all the time

What, while ... Having sex? :shock:


I want the updated info on that Eurotest.
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Hmmm, this appears to have strayed from the original intention of the thread, at least as far as I interpreted the thread title, and become yet another of those helmets good/helmets bad type threads ... that's why I haven't posted since the first page and won't be adding anything more!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
roga, I think the concept of Helmets Are Good is implicit in the thread title (why else would the wearing of helmets by instructors be raised?) and in the OP the concept of 'setting a good example' again suggests Helmets Are Good. The resultant discussion is a fair result, I think.

Megamum, My Bob the Builder helmets (I have 2) have a chunky outer skin that is separated from my skull by quite a gap - so sharp/heavy objects would have to make quite an impact to get through to cause damage. In contrast, my skiing helmets (again I have 2) have a near paper-thin outer skin lined with perhaps 10mm expanded polystyrene, and a little bit of padding; not impressive defence against heavy impact. Good for protection from cuts or minor knocks, though, which is why they were bought.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
roga wrote:
Hmmm, this appears to have strayed from the original intention of the thread, at least as far as I interpreted the thread title, and become yet another of those helmets good/helmets bad type threads ... that's why I haven't posted since the first page and won't be adding anything more!

The question of "whether" to wear helmet is inevitably link to how one perceive the benefit of the helmet!

For the helmet believers, the benefit is so great no amount of hassle is too much. So any hesitation are mere "excuses".

For the "non-believers", helmets benefit is so slight it's not worth bothering with however little hassle. So any "compulsory" requiements are at best well-meaning nonsense, and at worst, a distraction of other more benefitial safety initiatives.

While the majority of snowheads are mostly middle-of-the-road in their helmet believe, Confused it only take ONE "helmet advocate" to jump in and accuse the "non-believers' as either "idiot", "irresponsible" or "brainless", etc., to turn the thread into...

That's how helmet thread ALWAYS ends up, a shouting match of how magical helmet is or is not.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
achilles, abc, perhaps I was naive in thinking that the question was aimed at getting the instructors on here discussing professional best practice and how they think this particular issue will develop for them as instructors and that it might just stay that way rather than facilitating a free for all for every "believer" and "non-believer" to rehash a debate that's already been done to death far too many times already.

Anyway, that really is it from me in this thread, have fun all you helmet agnostics, atheists and fundamentalists Toofy Grin
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
roga wrote:
... the question was aimed at getting the instructors on here discussing professional best practice and how they think this particular issue will develop for them as instructors ...


For me the best situation would be for kids (say under 15) to be required to wear helmets when in lessons and everyone else to be encouraged to. As an instructor and given a free choice I would wear a helmet some of the time, but not all the time. I would, however, tell my clients that when I ski at my own level I usually wear a helmet, and try to tell them whatever the current research findings were about the benefits of wearing one so they could make an informed choice. Have to say that with the death of Natasha Richardson I'm beginning to think that maybe it would be good for all people in lessons to wear a helmet, not just kids.

As for as how this develops, I'm pretty certain that there will be an increase in pressure on instructors to wear a helmet when teaching. I think it will take a long time for this to happen, but maybe 10 years down the line the majority of instructors who work for ski schools will be seen in a helmet at least some of the time.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar, Agree completely with the above.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
roga wrote:
........the question was aimed at getting the instructors on here discussing professional best practice .....


Which rather presupposes there is a best practice with regard to helmets. The thread's course does not surprise me.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Regarding the issue of "looking up" to good skiers and wishing you could " ski like that"... ( and with the possibility of inflaming things, but I do love a good spat in the morning...)

When I first skied recreationally with Rob, he was wearing a helmet, I wasn't.

I thought - hey he's pretty cool on those carves. Knows what he's doing. Skis damn well. I think there may be something to this helmet wearing lark if people like him ( and PG at the time) decide to wear helmets.

So I um'd and ar'd, and then went and bought one.

Rob - its all your fault!!

PS not sure any teenager will wear something "because their dad does" - doesn't quite strike the right note with me.
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abc wrote:
The question of "whether" to wear helmet is inevitably link to how one perceive the benefit of the helmet!

For the helmet believers, the benefit is so great no amount of hassle is too much. So any hesitation are mere "excuses".

For the "non-believers", helmets benefit is so slight it's not worth bothering with however little hassle. So any "compulsory" requiements are at best well-meaning nonsense, and at worst, a distraction of other more benefitial safety initiatives.


I think that is well said.. I am a reluctant believer sitting in the middle, don't like wearing helmets but have been convinced by karma.

I have been lucky with helmets, hardly ever wear em but have always owned one... more than a few crashes on motorbikes, mountain bikes and skis and i am still here. But if i wasn't wearing a helmet on at least one occasions i recon i wouldn't be... Both bad crashes were on days that i wasn't planning on doing anything crazy and only put on a helmet as an afterthought. three samples..

I used to ride motorbikes in the days before mandatory helmets and had a couple crashes. The only bad one i had i was coming home from work, i brought my new full face helmet along to show a guy at the office and wore it home. Hit from behind broken back, collar bone, ribs, ankle and a long deep gash into the helmet from above the eye line to the chin tearing off the face shield... helmet saved my life, definitely...

On my mountain bike to get a pint of milk didnt wear helmet as only popping to shops, woke up with 15 stitches in my head and bashed up hands. scary, potentially serious but not a big deal in the end... but it was the only time in ages i hadnt wore my helmet on my bike. i now religiously do...

Skiing- hardly ever wore a helmet... out with kids hooning on a green run near the snow park, had put helmet on as i got sunburned the day before. skied off a small cliff drop and ended up with a very bad concussion, a year later reduced hearing in one ear and blurred vision in my left eye. without a helmet i think would have been very serious

I am in the camp that says they are hardly ever needed, many people never wear one and have never had a problem but it only takes one fluky fall and it could make the difference. Adults make up your own mind but insist the kids wear one.

I wouldnt wear one teaching adult beginners unless made to, but would do when teaching kids to set an example.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
As an aside, a colleague of mine has decided to wear a helmet next week when he skis, and can't buy one in London for love or money (actually, I'm not sure that he's offered love, but it probably wouldn't help, although he's a nice chap). I blame Natasha Richardson.
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My sister visited S&R Chertsey at the weekend to buy a helmet (also the Richardson effect) before her trip at Easter. No luck, almost entirely sold out.
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There's normally a much bigger selection in resort.
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Beanie, I dont know if you remember WCS November, one of the guys hit a rock with his head and was showing his dented helmet which could of been his head if he had no helmet.
Made me think, I dont wear a helmet, and havent - even when racing in the distant past, when we wernt obliged to do so, but after seeing the evidence first hand I went out and bought a helmet - that said I dont wear it all of the time but most of the time and although I dont like wearing it, I do beleive it is the right thing to do.
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Dek, yup I remember that, and that's exactly the type of injury that helmets really protect against and why I wear one. Unfortunately there's a bit of a misconception (compared to the medical evidence) that helmets will protect you against the really life threatening impact type injuries you might get at speed.
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beanie1 wrote:
Unfortunately there's a bit of a misconception (compared to the medical evidence) that helmets will protect you against the really life threatening impact type injuries you might get at speed.

Quite right, it's that "misconception" about helmet that makes all the helmet debate.

I often wear a helmet. Because if I'm on holiday, I prefer to enjoy it without a headache. I've been in one situation had I not been wearing a helmet, I would have ended up with a rather bloody head and probably quite a headache. The (glancing) impact most likely wasn't bad enough to kill me but would have rather ruin my enjoyment of my holiday! With the helmet taking the glancing blow, I was able to simply stood up and skied away. A bit shaken but otherwise unhurt.

I also mountain bike with body armor. It literally saved my skin many times! It's my choice and I wouldn't want to impose it as compulsory onto others. I view helmet very much in the same light.
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