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Winter tyres in Austria?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This has been discussed before over the last couple of years here and elsewhere but I cannot find a definitive statement on whether winter tyres are now mandatory (during the winter) in Austria for non-residents.
The AA says they are not.
1 tourist office in Austria says not.
2 others say they are required.
In various discussions here & elsewhere some people are convinced one way, others are convinced the opposite.

I'm sure we're all aware that where conditions are bad (such as ice), snow chains on summer tyres are not always suitable - but provided conditions are good or suitable for chains, is it actually *illegal* to drive on summer tyres during the winter in Austria?

Informed views welcomed. Please do not just speculate or simply warn about the dangers of driving on non-uk winter roads - it really doesn't add anything to what's gone before!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
petem77, The UK Governments Foreign and Commonwealths office advive is:-
Quote:

Road Travel in Winter (1 November-15 April)
New legislation, which comes into force on 1 January 2008, demands that all vehicles with up to 3.5 tonnes laden weight use winter tyres on all wheels in wintry road conditions (snow, slush, ice). Snow chains on the driving wheels will only be allowed as an alternative where the road is fully covered by snow and/or ice and the road surface will not be damaged by the chains. Chains or summer tyres will not be allowed for slush conditions. Heavy fines or temporary loss of vehicle may be imposed on those who ignore this legislation.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/europe/austria
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ok... you can come into Austria and drive on summers in the winter only if the roads are not of a 'snowy, slushy or icy condition'.
If the roads are like that then you have to use snow chains which have to be removed when the conditions are better.

So it is not 'illegal' to use summers but the whitewash around the law makes it the policemans decision as to whether to fine you or not!

It is just really stupid as in Dec, Jan and most of Feb you will be breaking the law by driving in winter conditions that aren't suitable for chains....

Thousands of Dutch drive down with summer tyres and don't get fined - but most drivers all carry chains...

So good luck in finding the definitive answer - there really isn't one!
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flangesax,
Quote:

good luck in finding the definitive answer - there really isn't one!

Well there is.........if in doubt fit winter tyres, they make driving on frosty / wet / greasy roads in the UK safer as well Very Happy
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petem77, on my recent visit there were signs at the start of the Arlberg/Flexen pass road near Stuben/Langen that demanded winter equipment for using these roads (winter tyres for under 3.5t and chains for over 3.5t).

The car I hired had winter tyres and I must say they made a lot of difference to the traction, steering and braking ability of the car as compared to how a car on summer tyres would have behaved in similar conditions. At one point up the hill at St Christoph on a particularly snowy day I doubt that a car on summer tyres would have managed to get up there. I was also impressed at how efficient the gritters and snowploughs were at keeping the roads passable.

If you are hiring a car in Germany, winter tyres are available at a supplemental cost, I found that Budget's charge was about the cheapest at €6 a day.
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Boredsurfing,
Absolutely, and why we are so backward in this country with respect to fitting winter tyres I do not know. The last set I bought were delivered from Germany but had been manufactured in the UK ! Ask a tyre dealer in the Uk about winter tyres and, in general, you get blank looks and a totally absurd price. We fit our own to all our cars vans & trucks.
The increase in safety you get from fitting winter tyres is, in my opinion, so great that I will not drive a vehicle without them in the winter. This is an extract from one of the big motoring magazines :-

Cold weather tyres are specifically engineered to offer improved vehicle performance and reduce stopping distances in cold, wet conditions. They contain a higher quantity of natural rubber compound, which stops them from hardening as much in the cold. Instead of hardening up in low temperatures and riding over the road surface, the tread on cold weather tyres keys into the road surface, allowing them to grip the road better. Braking tests conducted by a leading tyre manufacturer and TyreSafe member revealed that at 5°C a vehicle fitted with cold weather tyres travelling at 62 mph stopped a full five metres earlier than the same vehicle with standard tyres.
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The problems with people stranded on the road over Exmoor 6 weeks ago most likely wouldn't have happened (or at least would have been vastly ameliorated) if all the vehicles had had winter tyres
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skitow,
Quote:

Ask a tyre dealer in the Uk about winter tyres and, in general, you get blank looks and a totally absurd price. We fit our own to all our cars vans & trucks.


Completely different from my experience - a phoned a a local tyre fitting place (an smallish independent), for a quote on winter tyres - he knew exactly what what I was on about, and got back to me with a quote within an hour, at pretty much the same price as summer tyres, got them in and fitted the next day. I don't think the problem is with the dealers or distributors, but very few customers ask for them!
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petem77 wrote:

Quote:

Informed views welcomed. Please do not just speculate or simply warn about the dangers of driving on non-uk winter roads - it really doesn't add anything to what's gone before!


There have been loads of wintery tyre type threads this year... lots of opinions etc etc etc...

Just trying to answer the OP - which is pretty hard as the law is so damn wooly!
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A couple of years ago when I wanted to fit the reccomended Pirelli winter tyres for my car I was told they manafacture them in September and then that's it, if a particular size is sold out you have to wait until the next September! I ended up buying Vredstein's Very Happy
I used Micheldever who are quite used to Winter tyres even checking if I wanted proper winter tyres or just M+S tyres!
http://www.micheldever.co.uk/
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Boredsurfing wrote:
M+S tyres!


Theses are no ordinary tyres, these are M & S tyres. Laughing
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
petem77, For the trip you are doing and at the time you are doing it, you should be OK on ordinary UK "summer" tyres. Just remember though, if it is cold and wet that your braking distances will be greatly increased. So leave a bigger gap between you and the guy in front.

The law in Austria and Germany is "woolly" in some ways but not when it counts - i.e. when you have an accident. If it is found that your tyres are NOT suitable for the weather conditions, then German/Austrian drivers will find that their insurers do not pay for any damage resulting. If you cause the accident, you could possibly be charged with causing actual bodily harm or involuntary manslaughter (if someone dies as a result of an accident you caused). By doing it this way, you could take a gamble if you live here but it is not really worth it, and the police only have to check the tyres if something happens. I've asked here in the office and most believe that the law in Switzerland is similar by the way, but no-one knows for sure.

I find the attitude in the UK also a little bit bizarre, but maybe it is due to the name or perception that you only need the winter tyres when there is snow. In most places in the UK the winter temperatures and the rain combined make a much more lethal combination when you still have summer tyres on. When I lived in the UK and had a UK car, I had All-Weather tyres, snow and mud, on all the time. I lived in Bristol but was often in the Welsh Mountains or on the Moors in the SW, so it was a good idea. They also worked very well in the Alps except when the snow cover on the roads was complete, then I put on my chains. When I bought the car back to the UK to sell I drove to a friend's garage in Yorkshire and he was able to sell it easily because it had a full set of summer and another of winter tyres, plus a set of chains thrown in. So up there someone recognised the advantages of having the right equipment for the job! Very Happy

I was caught out the other evening here and nearly lost it on the mountain road up to my village even with winter tyres on - the air temperature was about 3°C and the snow had been melting during the day, leaving a thin stream of water across the road. As the ground temperature was lower than the air, as soon as it was dark, it froze into black ice, looking just like it was still melt water. I took a corner thinking it was just wet and ended up facing the way I had come! Embarassed

Have a good trip and basically take it easy if the weather is bad.

BTW we all agree here, the Swiss police are by far the worst in terms of tricks and instant fines - so beware. As someone here said when a Swiss policeman asks you to jump you ask politely "how high", never why! Big Wink


Sue snowHead
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Samerberg Sue wrote:
The law in Austria and Germany is "woolly" in some ways but not when it counts - i.e. when you have an accident. If it is found that your tyres are NOT suitable for the weather conditions, then German/Austrian drivers will find that their insurers do not pay for any damage resulting. If you cause the accident, you could possibly be charged with causing actual bodily harm or involuntary manslaughter (if someone dies as a result of an accident you caused). By doing it this way, you could take a gamble if you live here but it is not really worth it, and the police only have to check the tyres if something happens. I've asked here in the office and most believe that the law in Switzerland is similar by the way, but no-one knows for sure.


There is no law here requiring winter tyres, but there is a de facto obligation insofar as, as you describe, you are automatically deemed to be at fault by your insurance if you have an accident in the winter and haven't got winter tyres on. Frankly in our climate it's daft not to have them.

Quote:
BTW we all agree here, the Swiss police are by far the worst in terms of tricks and instant fines - so beware. As someone here said when a Swiss policeman asks you to jump you ask politely "how high", never why! Big Wink


Funny, our view here is that that description fits the Austrian police Wink
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Samerberg Sue, My understanding is that Winter Tyres are effective when the temperature is below 7c. For large parts of the UK, this will be measured in days, if not hours, during the winter.

hence many people can't see the need
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Boris, not if you take out the statistics for the South West of England, which actually skew the average winter temps for the UK upwards. Anywhere in the east of England, away from the influence of the Gulf Stream and more under the curse of the Arctic winds coming down the east coast (went to school in Cambridgeshire so I've felt this! Shocked ) has a significant number of days/weeks where they would be a much better option than the harder rubber compounds of summer tyres. The average winter temperature (taken as January) for the whole of the UK is +6°C, which means that some places will be considerably colder, others warmer, i.e. Devon & Cornwall.

As I said I believe it is the perception rather than the facts influencing things here to be honest. But hey, which country comes to a standstill when two snowflakes are found holding hands? wink

The weather stats back this up if you look at them on a regional basis. My sister lives in Sussex and now has summer and winter tyres and has found life much easier this winter particularly. Not just because of the snow, more because of the cold rainy days she says.

eng_ch, - interesting story about the Austrian police - driving in a blizzard through a sleepy town near Hallstatt - got pulled over by the Austrian police for "speeding" and was fined on the spot. They apologised profusely when they finally came round to the correct driver's window (I was in my UK car but with German plates) - "Sorry we thought you were a German, but now you have to pay because we have filled out all the details". I was looking for an ATM at the time and had been loudly overtaken by 2 locals about the point where they said I was speeding! Coughed up as I just did not want the hassle of pursuing a complaint across two legal systems I knew nothing about at the time.

Sue Very Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

My understanding is that Winter Tyres are effective when the temperature is below 7c. For large parts of the UK, this will be measured in days, if not hours, during the winter.
I have to agree with Sue. Perhaps you were not in the country during January and February? According to this, http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?, Gatwick (in the sunny south east) had only thirty days in twelve weeks where the temperature was above 7C. (Dec6th - Feb 28th) Today, from Metcheck, there are places in Yorks and Notts that are still below 7C. I for one will continue with my all weather tyres. They felt so much better during the recent snow, were brilliant over the Arlberg pass and also seemed to perform much better in some of the downpours we have had recently.
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elj221c, I didn't say all of the UK - I said large parts. You will also be aware that this winter was the coldest for 13 years - i.e. not normal

I'm not against Winter Tyres, but for PARTS of the UK they are worthless

Samerberg Sue, yes the UK comes to a standstill with the snow - again these are rare events - we cannot justify the millions of pounds in infrastructure required to prevent a once in 10 years event
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Gatwick (in the sunny south east) had only thirty days in twelve weeks where the temperature was above 7C. (Dec6th - Feb 28th


So 54 days when Winter Tyres were useful - out of 364

At £300 - £400 for a set - good luck convicing the credit-crunched UK motorist to buy another set of tyres
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Boris I guess you are skiing less then 54 days a year, yet you still pay 1000+eur for skiing equipment Wink It's not really my problem what people drive, at least as long someone with summer tires crashes into me and kills me, but is few 100eur every 2 or 3 years really too much to keep your car, and even more important, yourself, in once piece?
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But you don't need another set if you use all weather tyres. OK, it maybe a compromise, but then road tyres are, by their nature.
My set of five was indead just short of £300 but as it happens, cheaper than replacing the previously fitted summer tyres like-for-like. That's good for 'crunched' motorists, isn't it?
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elj221c, All Weather tyres aren't Winter Tyres though and are another debate - I would agree that replacing summer tyres with all weather is a sensible option

primoz, If I lived in the Alps trust me I would have Winter Tyres - apart from being common sense, it is the law in many places. The point I am trying to make is for many parts of the UK, mainly soutern softies, Winter Tyres just aren't necessary. Maybe for a couple of weeks every few years. Although strictly summer tyres, most if not all the tyres in the UK are more akin to an all-season tyre in what they are designed for.

Outside of skiers and car nuts, I bet that if you stopped your average man in the street they would have no idea that different types of tyre existed.
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elj221c, Winter tyres, or even "all-season" tyres will wear out much faster in warm weather than "standard" UK tyres will, so it still works out more expensive.

Although for me this year, I must have had a period of 3-4 months where 90% + of my driving was done at temperatures below 7C, but then I do 150 miles a day commuting, all of it between 6:40 and 8:20 or between 16:45 and 19:45.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

good luck convicing the credit-crunched UK motorist to buy another set of tyres



but then again try convincing a large % of them to buy road tax and insurance

i have not found any difference in cost, my winter tyres go on in oct and come off and get changed for summers in april/may depending on the last ski trip, strangely enough tyres which are stored in the garage don't wear out and being as i can only use one set of wheels on the car at a time the two sets last just about the same time as if they were two sets of summer tyres...only difference is the hour it takers to get them changed every 6 months and the case of beer for the guy who does it Toofy Grin
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Boris I have no idea about UK. Here (Slovenia) we have law, where winter tires are obligatory between 15th of November and 15th of March (I think I got dates right), but seaside part of Slovenia is exception, and winter tires are not obligatory there. I agree with this, since there's really no need for winter tires, if normal temperature is around +10c, and you get snow for day or two once every 10 years. But then you have problems, especially in Slovenia, where it takes you less then hour of driving to come from seaside to middle of Alps, and people go skiing for example. All of a sudden, you have bunch of people with summer tires in middle of snow storm.
For me personally, there's no other option anyway.... I make around 50k km/year, huge part of it during winter, so good winter tires are pretty much only option. But even if I would be making one tenth of this, I would still buy them... law or no law. As I wrote, it's too small expense to risk my life Smile
But yes, I understand you don't need them if you are living somewhere else. But then again, this thread was originally about Austria right? Wink
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there are times when I wonder why I bother - but.................

1. I am not against Winter Tyres - I can see the benefits
2. You are preaching to the converted generally here
3. It is a different matter to try and convince the UK motorist at large
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CEM, I'm not a great fan of repeatedly taking tyres on and off rims. I'm no expert but it can't be either good for the wheel or especially the tyre bead. Also, tyres are supposed to have a shelf life. The winter treads might not wear out for five or six years which might put them past their best. Besides, I don't like giving away crates of beer.... Very Happy
Boris, my all weathers have an M & S, mountain and snow flake symbol so they qualify as winter tyres. Why another debate? Seems to be about the OP's question.
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Elj I agree about shelf life etc. My tires, winter or summer, are normally changed every 3 years (and on my MTB at least once in season:)). They all still have more then enough profile, but rubber gets hard, and they definitely don't work same way as when new. I also believe that putting tires up and down the wheel might not be good (I have second wheel set because I just don't like to wait for change, and I just change wheels:)), but if you change tires every 2, 3 or 4 years, it's just about 4 to 8 changes for tire, so this won't be all that much.
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elj221c, spoken at length about the removing tyres from the rims thing with my dealer, he has no problem with it, not sure i would trust the local rapid tyre centre

besides with my milage they are dead in the trhee year shelf life Toofy Grin
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
We have a separate set of rims for our Freelander which have the winter tyres on them, and come November my OH spends a bit of time and probably bad language taking off the rather smarter alloys and 'summer' tyres. These get stored in our own garage over the winter - we are then free to come and go from the UK to the Alps as and when and he then does the whole thing in reverse when we get back to the UK at the end of April. The winter tyres were bought at the garage here in Les Gets and they -at the time - were cheaper than buying in the UK.

From memory, there was also an issue with the car in that the rims that came with it did not allow sufficient space for chains to be fitted, so we bought another set of rims - ebay - which are smaller and these take the winter tyres. We had all sorts of problems trying to buy the winter tyres in Sussex and surrounds - places kept telling us they had them in, or could get them, but when pinned down they were never the right thing - hence buying them here in France.
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Pamski, you may want to check where you stand with your insurance company putting another set of rims on your car - i.e. not original spec.

I did and was alarmed by the results - http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=42714

A very brief summary would be they may want to charge you more for the privlidge or worst case may not pay out if they find out you've done it
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Boris, - ....er, thank you! think I will go back to reading my book in the sun and listening to the snow drip off the roof -

They are the correct type for the car, just smaller to allow for chains to be fitted, which we have never had to do since having a car with winter tyres. Just never thought to check rim sizes when ordering it and we could have had smaller ones then - same as we did not realise there was no thermometer in our model to tell us the outside temperature, when you are used to having one you really miss it, all fitted as standard in newer models apparently - previous car was a Subaru Outback and that had one, and I even have one in my little Ibiza. You never stop learning do you.
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Slightly off topic but i run winter tyres all year round on both my Landy TD5 and Vectra.....wear rates ar'nt as good as all weather or summer tyres, but it's only about 25% less. I do however live in the middle of nowhere up a dirt track so even summer rain can cause probs. I cover about 30K+ miles per year so rotate front and back tyres and have to replace 2 each year.....but that's my choice.

Re Austria, agree Law is woolly, but have been caught out by snow in late April near Kitz. If you can stand the expense....they make sense. Very Happy
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Pamski, both the rims and tyres i looked at were for vw origonal kit. But that according to insuirers still meant a higher premium
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Winter Tyre experts:

I have just quit my job and have 3 months to kill before the next one starts ... so the logical thing to do is spend as much time as possible at my ski flat in Bad Gastein Austria snowHead

I'm going to drive my Freelander from London, it currently has Michelin Synchrone 215/65/16R 98H M+S tyres. So from what I've read on all the various threads these are 100% legal in Austria given they are M+S. However, and I know this might be a tad subjective, is it the right thing to do from a safety point of view ? Should I be prepared to shell out say £450 and buy some proper winter tyres with the snowflake, e.g. the Michelin Latitude Alpins ?

The money is not the end of the world if from a safety point of view it makes a huge difference, it would be more the hassle of getting it done and then having to store the spare set of tires. London being london space is a premium !
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Speedster, leave the winter tyres in Bad Gastein?
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I have winter tyres on my car now. Temperature was below 7C all day today today and i was driving through slushy snow most of the morning today, and for short sections over the higher sections of road this afternoon. It pisses me off when we do get snow at low level and I'm stuck behind people doing 10 mph cos they are out on summer tyres with no grip and I have no problems on my winter tyres.
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i dont want to be the guy holding up the traffic !

pam - i guess that is good advice, would save alot of hassle by just getting a local garage out there to switch the tyres for me when i arrive there. Better then trying to organise this in London. Can then do it in reverse on the way back.
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Speedster,

Your M&S tyres will need a minimum of 4mm tread to be legal (for a non-resident).

If you are only driving the landy over here and then parking it up for the season its probably not worth getting winter tyres (however if the weather is bad in 3 months then take care on the way back).

The Michelin Latitude Alpins get great reviews.

Sod's law says if you store them in Austria then you will need them next time you travel from the UK. They have a ca 5-6 year shelf life so putting a few more miles on them shouldn't shorten their lifespan.

If you are doing a lot of mileage while over here just get the winter tyres (probably better to buy over here) there really is a big difference. (traction, braking, handling etc)

The optimal winter tyres may have different dimensions to your regular summer tyres.
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DB, thanks for the advice. I plan to be doing quite a bit of driving around as would like to use the opportunity to explore parts of Ski Amade (and further) that i have yet to ski. just out of interest when you say optimal winter tyres may have different dimensions what is the theory behind that ?
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Speedster,

Generally the thinner the tyre the better the winter performance as the tyres dig in more.

Porsche rally car
http://www.icedriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/911.jpg

Suby rally car
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/01/subaru_impreza_wrc_rally_car_04.jpg

If your car was registered here the paperwork would tell you which size tyres and wheels were allowed. Probably best for you to ask a Landrover dealer
http://www.landrover.at/at/de/_maintools/dealerlocator.htm


I believe this is the nearest Landrover dealer to Bad Gastein, English should be no problem for them. The kwikfit equivalents here are generally much cheaper than main dealers though. Get the tyre size from Landrover then search for deals from others ....

Frey Autohandels- und Reparatur GmbH Gewerbestraße 1
5620
St. Veit
Salzburg
Telefon: 06415 7301
Fax: 06415 7301 15
E-Mail: info.stveit@autofrey.at
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