Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Revival of the steered turn

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hey gang, hope everyone's having a great season. Little Tiger and I are hard at work filming the final 2 Building Blocks DVD's. In between I finally got a chance to write this article I'd been wanting to get to for quite a while.

It's about how learning quality steering skills has gotten neglected with the introduction of the shape ski, in favor of a rush to carve, and how skiers are suffering for it. Thought I'd post it up here for you guys to have a gander. Read, discuss, enjoy!

http://www.yourskicoach.com/YourSkiCoach/A_Revival_of_the_Steered_Turn.html
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
FastMan, I can't look at that - working on a very slow dial up internet connection, the only kind available on my mountain phone line. But was thinking about exactly that last night, having spent half an hour before going to bed with "The Skiers Edge" (yes, I am sad....). No coyness about steered turns there, and reminded me to have another go at the "windshield wiper" exercise which is also illustrated very well on one of Phil Smith's videos. My failure to steer skis sufficiently far and fast through the fall line is something I need to work on for skiing steeper slopes and from what I see from chairlifts, I'm far from being the only one.
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I'm not sure steering ever went away, I realise its just a premise to get the discussion started but its surely the default option for anyone from post-snowplough to people skiing hairball line in freeskiing comps (when they aren't maching out down the apron).
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
fatbob wrote:
I'm not sure steering ever went away, I realise its just a premise to get the discussion started but its surely the default option for anyone from post-snowplough to people skiing hairball line in freeskiing comps (when they aren't maching out down the apron).


What does this mean?
latest report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
FastMan, thanks, it's a well written article, but I question whether the steered turn has gone anywhere. I've always been taught that skiing is a blend of the three main ways to steer your skis and always done twisting exercises (braquage, etc) to develop good rotary skills. When I look around the hill I see a lot of blended twisting going on (rather too much of it rushed at the fall line, unfortunately) and not a lot of pure carving.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
On first reaction to reading Fastman's article was exactly the same as fatbob and rob@rar - did steered turns really go anywhere?

But on reflection I think it's quite an insightful observation.

It's certainly true the see few people really carving on the slopes - and there's certainly a lot of rotation going on in their turns. But (and being a bit pedantic here) is rotating the ski and standing (violently) on the edge really "steering".

Let's face it, how often do you see really good steered turns? You know, progessively steered with the careful and appropriate application of edge? Probably as seldom as you see good carved turns.

Anyone for a good Wedel?
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
FlyingStantoni wrote:
It's certainly true the see few people really carving on the slopes - and there's certainly a lot of rotation going on in their turns. But (and being a bit pedantic here) is rotating the ski and standing (violently) on the edge really "steering".

I did think about that, hence my comment in parenthesis about rushed steering at the fall line. So maybe Fastman article should have talked about Skillful Steering which includes a progressive movement all the way around the turn?
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
pam w wrote:
FastMan, I can't look at that - working on a very slow dial up internet connection, the only kind available on my mountain phone line. But was thinking about exactly that last night, having spent half an hour before going to bed with "The Skiers Edge" (yes, I am sad....). No coyness about steered turns there, and reminded me to have another go at the "windshield wiper" exercise which is also illustrated very well on one of Phil Smith's videos. My failure to steer skis sufficiently far and fast through the fall line is something I need to work on for skiing steeper slopes and from what I see from chairlifts, I'm far from being the only one.


Yes, pam w, there's a good reason I don't delve into carving until the 4th DVD. People struggle on difficult terrrain, not because they don't have good carving skills, but because they don't have a solid base of foundation balance and edging skills. Carving on gnarly terrain is possible, but it's way up on the expertise scale. Average recreational skiers will be better served by first honing their steering/rotary skills to negotiate such terrain in comfort and control.
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
fatbob wrote:
I'm not sure steering ever went away, I realise its just a premise to get the discussion started but its surely the default option for anyone from post-snowplough to people skiing hairball line in freeskiing comps (when they aren't maching out down the apron).


I'd fully agree with you, fatbob, if you substituted "rotary turning" for "steering". The default turning style for 90+ percent of the recreational skiing community is using gross rotary movements (upper body and arm rotation and counter rotation) to horse their skis quickly through the top half of the turn so as to avoid the dreaded falline. This big pivot is usually followed b a down the falline slide,,, a edge set and up move,,, and another pivot,,, repeat, repeat, repeat, all the way down the slope. Little acutal turning across the falline is taking place. This is the type of skiing pam w mentioned seeing as she rides up the lift.

Steering skillfully with the legs is a completely different critter. Quality steering is precise, efficient, fluid and elegant. It has many different faces: fast speed or slow,,, narrow skid tracks or wide,,, small radius or large. A highly refined steered turn can be of such a narrow track it would take a well trained eye to distinquish it from a carved turn, yet the skier can feel the difference. A skilled skier can change the radius of his/her steered turn mid turn. They can change the skid angle mid turn too. They can choose any of these combinations and options to produce a controlled and effortless trip down any slope on the mountain. This level of skill is far from what we see displayed by the average recreational Joe. Carving is the last thing most people who take lessons need to be focusing on. They need to develop the foundation edging and balance skills first,,, and quality steering is at the center of that training menu.

flyingstantoni had it dead right when he said:

Quote:
It's certainly true the see few people really carving on the slopes - and there's certainly a lot of rotation going on in their turns. But (and being a bit pedantic here) is rotating the ski and standing (violently) on the edge really "steering".

Let's face it, how often do you see really good steered turns? You know, progessively steered with the careful and appropriate application of edge? Probably as seldom as you see good carved turns.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
rob@rar wrote:
FastMan, thanks, it's a well written article, but I question whether the steered turn has gone anywhere. I've always been taught that skiing is a blend of the three main ways to steer your skis and always done twisting exercises (braquage, etc) to develop good rotary skills. When I look around the hill I see a lot of blended twisting going on (rather too much of it rushed at the fall line, unfortunately) and not a lot of pure carving.


Hi robrar, thanks for the feedback. I think I've addressed your concerns in my subsequent posts. I'll just continue by saying your comment about not seeing much pure carving is spot on. Trying to teach people to carve without developing the foundation balance and edging skill base first will result in a pretty subpar execution. It's another pitfall created by the rush to carve fad. If the foundation skills are developed first, learning to carve well is a piece of cake. If the base skills are skipped, quality carving is usually just a pipe dream.
snow conditions
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
FastMan wrote:


Trying to teach people to carve without developing the foundation balance and edging skill base first will result in a pretty subpar execution. It's another pitfall created by the rush to carve fad. If the foundation skills are developed first, learning to carve well is a piece of cake. If the base skills are skipped, quality carving is usually just a pipe dream.


Very true, however I have, in the past, lost potentially long term students because I wouldn't teach them to carve as they were in the backseat and the mrs. was afraid of speed. I tried hard to explaine that they weren't ready yet, but ... they went elsewhere and the instructor did try to teach them to carve!

I agree with what's been said above, but the problem is that as soon as you mention rotary turning, it allows all the 'fling it and hope' skiers to say "well, I do that" I like steering better. Having said that, there is a big difference between carving and using the carving ski. I do worry that so many beginners are taught to rotate a flat ski in one way or another to do their first turns - hence they continue to do so on progressively steeper slopes to the progressively greater danger of all the other slope users. It seems to me that it's better to start them off with using the ski to do the work (they mostly skid enough anyway), and teach the pivoting stuff later when it won't interfere with their 'default' turn.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
easiski wrote:
FastMan wrote:


Trying to teach people to carve without developing the foundation balance and edging skill base first will result in a pretty subpar execution. It's another pitfall created by the rush to carve fad. If the foundation skills are developed first, learning to carve well is a piece of cake. If the base skills are skipped, quality carving is usually just a pipe dream.


Very true, however I have, in the past, lost potentially long term students because I wouldn't teach them to carve as they were in the backseat and the mrs. was afraid of speed. I tried hard to explaine that they weren't ready yet, but ... they went elsewhere and the instructor did try to teach them to carve!



Yes, easiski, that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Many peeps wants to carve well before they're ready. Their attempts are usually met with little success, and their general all mountain skiing gains little improvement for the effort. Quality instructors such as yourself will try to guide them toward a better course of learning, and if the suggestion to forego learning to carve in favor of expanding and refining foundation edging skills is accepted, their skiing will improve. But until we can pound home this message to the masses of students and pros alike, there will continue to be instructors who will cater to the fadish whims of their unknowing students and try ushering them into the world of carving way before their time.
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Good steering skills involve so much more than just twisting the skis in any old manner so that they turn. It's about removing the upper body from the equation and learning to turn with the legs. It's about learning to use edge angle in various ways to help with the process. It's about being able to change the skid angle however and whenever desired, whether from turn to turn, or within a single turn. It's about using skid angle to produce the desired speed of travel through any turn shape, and down any slope. It's about being able to change the radius of the turn across the entire spectrum of possibilities,,, from straight down the falline, to turning 180 degrees in the length of a ski,,, and being able to change that radius at any point during a turn.

Watch the others skiers coming down as you ride the lift the next time you go skiing. How many appear to have a handle on the skills I mentioned above? How many are not rotating their arms and shoulders to facilitate their turns? How many are not throwing their tails out at the start of their turns? How many are actually turning,,, you know, moving back and forth across the hill,,, rather than just exectuting a series of pivoted sliding speed checks that resembles a crudely exectuted semi-controlled free fall. When you begin to look for these things you will be surprised at how pervasive this form of "skiing" is. So few skiers have well refined steering skills. Few are able to turn cleanly and pivot free, with no upper body involvement, leave a narrow and consistent track in their wake, and change their turn shapes or skid angles with ease. With such skills missing, all mountain skiing is a much more difficult and intimidating proposition than it needs to be. With well refined steering skills confidence soars, and skiing becomes a relaxing a fun activity on any terrain on the mountain.
latest report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
FastMan, hah! " How many are actually turning,,, you know, moving back and forth across the hill,,, rather than just exectuting a series of pivoted sliding speed checks that resembles a crudely exectuted semi-controlled free fall" Too many of those - one on the Valentin this morning - aaarrrrhhhhh rolling eyes
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
it is all a question of room, IMV... if you have to side-slip/crash into a mogul and then swing them round and /or use that momentum..and start again to do the same again for the next turn, then that points to there being not much room to do otherwise and the slope is pretty dam steep as well..

Most people I know do have a quiet upper body...but sometimes you need to accent the move and the arms do tend to get the ski to follow..rightly or wrongly.... from a desired technical POV..

Depends what level you are pitching this at...
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
JT, I did not read "no upper body involvement" as "have a quiet upper body".

A quiet upper body used as a counterweight to pivots is still involved, no?
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
comprex, that's right. Subtle counter rotation or even exaggerated anticipation may show little upper body gyrations, but can still be used as a tool for producing the dreaded pivot. The pivot is a primary culprit in unrefined steering, regardless of the engine used to power it. Refined steering requires no pivot or push of the tails at the start of the turn.

JT, I totally agree with you that sometimes you just want or need to pivot the turn entry. That's not an inherently bad thing. In fact, the ability to pivot/push skillfully with either rotation, counter rotation or antincipation shoud be skills that are in the pocket of every expert skier. The problem comes when these turn entries are a skiers default way of turning,,, their only option. It's in those instances steering skill deficiencies exist that need to be addressed if real improvement is desired.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
FastMan,

I agree.......
Given an amount of room it is a clumsy way to turn... if that is all you have, otherwise it becomes just another turn to add to the box.
I think the pivot has a use in nasty moguls for example...so not all bad...and can be quite an advanced skill, IMV
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
FastMan, Would you have a different approach to teaching people of different ages, with varying degrees of max potential and varying frequency of opportunity for practice, & if so, what? Compare for example

- a middle aged lady novice such as me who is limited to 1, 2 or maybe 3 weeks skiing a year and is never going to be an expert, but simply aspires to being able to make neatly executed & calmly controlled descents of most terrain in order to maximise her enjoyment

- a 20-something fit, sporty person, who skis maybe 6-8 weeks a year and while perhaps too old to be future competitor material, could achieve very highly indeed
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Butterfly, hours on snow is the biggest factor, quality time is quality time but you just can't make up some of those hours, all things considered, IMV
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Butterfly, I'd say person (1) is going to see great benefits from learning the same basic skills as person (2)....

The ability to balance well on your skis and perform as desired from the situations where your balance is less than ideal will benefit the older lady when she gets knocked around by dodgy snow etc... It will also benefit the young star when he pushes the envelope in the course and needs to deal with the consequences of going a bit far with that...

Edging skills - well a variety of steered turns will allow person (1) to ski the whole mountain comfortably... With good steering skills she will be able to control her speed as desired... She will do this with less effort and more fluidity than the majority of skiers and be able to ski for many more years than if she just hacks away...
Person (2) will use those same edging skills to refine further into his ability to feather into a carve from a pivot or any other thing that has him "not carving"... they will also allow him to dump the least amount of speed possible when he CANNOT carve... by avoiding harsh edge engagements.... He will also use these skills when he is not ripping gates - ie when he wants to have fun or when he is training.... and when he wants to stop or bleed speed or just enter the lift line...

Person (2) is going to build even further on all these skills... but he cannot build without solid foundations and those foundations are the same skills that will allow person (1) to ski comfortably and with less concern that she will plummet out of control..
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Butterfly, for your middle aged lady example #1 the steering skills I'm talking about in this thread are the very thing she needs. Coupled, of course, with an equal dose of balance training. With these steering skills skiers with limited time on snow can ski the entire mountain with confidence, choosing to ski any slope at any speed they feel comfortable with. These are the most basic turning techniques, yet they offer so many choices in line and speed a skier could happily use them for the rest of their holidays on skis without ever having to concern themselves with trying to learn the speed intense technique of carving.

As to your example #2 of the athletic young person who has more time on skis, well, little tiger is spot on. With them I start with the same foundation edging and balance skills, because it's these that will support the more advanced skills to be learned later down the road.

Every skier will take their skiing to what ever level time and/or desire dictates. What distresses me is those decide to settle for their current level of skiing based on having limited time on snow, and thinking because of that they can't really improve anyway. So they pludge (a mixture of plodding and trudging) along for years on end struggling with the same empty basket of skills. Any moment spent on developing new skills, regardless of how faint, results in a lifetime of better and more rewarding skiing from that moment on. Learning something new, and experiencing the personal high that comes from even small steps forward can be the source of great memeories from a ski holiday; enduring memories that are reignited with each newly enhanced turn.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

The ability to balance well on your skis and perform as desired from the situations where your balance is less than ideal will benefit the older lady when she gets knocked around by dodgy snow etc...

I am just the old lady under discussion here - a couple of day ago I did few turns in the off-piste. Super cruddy, not really my cup of tea, hurtled back onto the piste and landed up on one ski - the wrong one! I was turning right, and it was my right ski. To my great astonishment, I recovered - it was not pretty, but it worked. I'm sure that all the balance exercises I've been doing made the difference and saved me a spectacular fall.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
pam w, could you reconsider that word "old" - it's not in my dictionary Wink.
Quote:
Learning something new, and experiencing the personal high that comes from even small steps forward can be the source of great memeories from a ski holiday
this is so true. I came back home from LDA so elated; even though in some people's view my progress was perhaps modest, it was highly satisfying for me and left me desperate for more hours on the slope. Sadly that may not be in 2009 unless I can persuade my other half we should pay a visit to LDA over the summer.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
pam w wrote:
Quote:

The ability to balance well on your skis and perform as desired from the situations where your balance is less than ideal will benefit the older lady when she gets knocked around by dodgy snow etc...

I am just the old lady under discussion here - a couple of day ago I did few turns in the off-piste. Super cruddy, not really my cup of tea, hurtled back onto the piste and landed up on one ski - the wrong one! I was turning right, and it was my right ski. To my great astonishment, I recovered - it was not pretty, but it worked. I'm sure that all the balance exercises I've been doing made the difference and saved me a spectacular fall.


Pam, I just got a super big smile on my face from reading this! YES, YES, YES!!

This auto-pilot recovery ability is one of the things I've preached about as a benefit of expanding one's balance skill repertoire. I'm so stoked to hear you've made the discovery! Good balance skills inspire confidence, and make venturing into new technical learning territory a less intimidating undertaking.
latest report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Butterfly wrote:
pam w, could you reconsider that word "old" - it's not in my dictionary Wink.
Quote:
Learning something new, and experiencing the personal high that comes from even small steps forward can be the source of great memeories from a ski holiday
this is so true. I came back home from LDA so elated; even though in some people's view my progress was perhaps modest, it was highly satisfying for me and left me desperate for more hours on the slope. Sadly that may not be in 2009 unless I can persuade my other half we should pay a visit to LDA over the summer.


Butterfly, congrats, and good for you! Enjoy each and every step forward you make, no matter how large or small. You've earned them, and you'll enjoy the new skiing experiences they provide. This is the cool thing about learning new skills. It's a process that can go on forever, continuously providing a source of fresh feelings of accomplishment,,, and continuously opening new doors to ways to have fun on skis.
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
FastMan wrote:
This is the cool thing about learning new skills. It's a process that can go on forever, continuously providing a source of fresh feelings of accomplishment,,, and continuously opening new doors to ways to have fun on skis.



Laughing

That is me! Toofy Grin
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hey Easiski I was carving arc-2-arc doing outside ski turns with inside ski lifted off the snow the other day!!!
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
little tiger, Wow - well done! Remember when I couldn't get you to lift the uphill ski on a traverse? This is what FastMan, and Butterfly, are talking about. It's such a shame that there seems to be a very strong group on this forum and others, that tries to persuade people that it's dull/boring/hard work and just not worth it to improve your skiing. Sad It would appear from some posts that it's in some way virtuous to be happy with a poor level of technique. Sad
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
easiski wrote:
......group that tries to persuade people it's dull/boring/hard work and just not worth it to improve your skiing..
What could possibly be dull/boring about the amazing feeling of achieving something you thought you could not do or feeling a new sense of control/ease in what you can do? And it's only hard work if you make it so - it's a state of mind. I pay for skiing lessons because I thoroughly enjoy them and the benefit I get from them. Yes the challenges can be hard, but the whole process is so rewarding that it cannot in my book be classed as hard work. Having things to think about (while taking in fab views) & then practise adds a dimension to skiing outside of lessons - queuing for a lift and mindlessly bombing down a slope to the next queue? Now THAT seems dull & boring to me!

Quote:
It would appear from some posts that it's in some way virtuous to be happy with a poor level of technique. Sad
As you know I teach a physical skill to all adults. Sadly I come up against this attitude too - it is not just in skiing. Our teaching centre's been branded "elitist" by some who feel that way because we encourage everyone to try to achieve as highly as they personally can.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

It would appear from some posts that it's in some way virtuous to be happy with a poor level of technique.



in this thread..?? where..?
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Butterfly,
Quote:

encourage everyone to try to achieve as highly as they personally can
Nothing wrong with that, but there is a certain psychology to understand here - remembering that everyone is different - a danger that a true perfectionist (or obsessive might be a better way to describe it) will become discouraged, and give up altogether if the standard to which he/she aspires is simply unattainable. It happened to me with another skill which I worked very hard to try and acquire, but which I eventually gave up because it defeated me, or rather what I aspired to do with it defeated me. Don't want that to happen with my skiing. (That said, I do still - at a very lowly level - try to improve my skiing.)
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

a danger that a true perfectionist (or obsessive might be a better way to describe it) will become discouraged, ...........................



and bang on and on and drive everyone nuts.... ????

You need some balance somewhere along the line..Laughing
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
JT,
Quote:

and bang on and on and drive everyone nuts.... ????
No, it is the danger of simply giving up that I was referring to (on this occasion wink). Are you confusing me with someone else? wink Perhaps when you wrote 'and bang on...' you meant 'or bang on...'
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

a danger that a true perfectionist (or obsessive might be a better way to describe it) will become discouraged, and give up altogether if the standard to which he/she aspires is simply unattainable

How true. I am not, and never have been, a perfectionist in anything at all. Happy to slop along. When I learnt (this was in the '60s) that our O levels would be marked "pass/fail" I decided just to work enough to pass them. Equally, couldn't be bothered to work hard enough to get a First (though actually nobody got a First in my year, so maybe we were all imperfectionists). I did a lot of selection board work for the Fast Stream of the Civil Service and I saw quite a few disappointed "perfectionists" - most often in music, where people had become exceptionally skilled but realised they were never going to be concert pianists etc etc. People who had done science Ph Ds could also pose some problems in terms of narrow obsession and inability to communicate outside their particular corner of their particular discipline.

I like to learn new stuff, and I love working with skilled instructors. I have learnt quite a bit about sailing - enough to be fairly safe and competent, and to know my limitations. But a man who was just learning the very rudiments, 12 years ago, when I was already as good as I was going to be bothered to get, subsequently went through all the training stages, and is now a Yachtmaster Instructor (and a very good one - I did a refresher course with him a couple of years ago but really couldn't be bothered with the hassle of doing a Yachtmaster myself, though I know I could do it if I applied myself a bit more).

My motto is "If a job's worth doing it's worth doing well enough". For me, skiing "well enough" means skiing a bit better than I do now, and in particular to feel more "on top of" my skis when the going is rough/cruddy/slushy. And I want to achieve that to reduce the chance of injury as I get older (I have no problem with "old", Butterfly wink ). That doesn't mean taking lessons all the time, but it does mean having instruction at least once a year, and doing some drills and exercises on my own, for the odd half day here and there, in the meantime.

Some people may think they have nothing to learn from lessons but, on the whole, I think it's more common that people are rather afraid of lessons because they think they will be pushed beyond their comfort zone, whereas nothing could be further from the truth. When I have bullied friends and relations visiting us into taking a private lesson they have always, without fail, found it both enjoyable and useful. Neither they, nor I, are ever going to be expert skiers, but knowing you feel more secure, and in control, is (for some of us at least) a source of pleasure and a confidence-booster.

But I realise that lessons really aren't for everyone - and I do think that some people can become very good skiers without them (my younger son being a first class example). You only have to look at kids in a skatepark somewhere (or those phenomenal free-runners) to realise that some people can master complex physical skills by dint of persistence, copying others, their own innate talent and a high pain threshold). It's just that I know I can't.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Hurtle, give up...?????

I am keen enough and I can beat myself up.... but a perfectionist...err, no, don't think so...

Obsessive..? manic or otherwise...? ha ha ha ...

But I know a man who can... Laughing Laughing
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
easiski wrote:
...just executing a series of pivoted sliding speed checks that resembles a crudely exectuted semi-controlled free fall


Are you picking on me again?? Embarassed wink
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Red Leon wrote:
easiski wrote:
...just executing a series of pivoted sliding speed checks that resembles a crudely exectuted semi-controlled free fall


Are you picking on me again?? Embarassed wink
I bet that description applies to a lot of snowHeads. Including me.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Hurtle wrote:
Butterfly,
Quote:

encourage everyone to try to achieve as highly as they personally can
Nothing wrong with that, but there is a certain psychology to understand here - remembering that everyone is different - a danger that a true perfectionist (or obsessive might be a better way to describe it) will become discouraged, and give up altogether if the standard to which he/she aspires is simply unattainable. It happened to me with another skill which I worked very hard to try and acquire, but which I eventually gave up because it defeated me, or rather what I aspired to do with it defeated me. Don't want that to happen with my skiing. (That said, I do still - at a very lowly level - try to improve my skiing.)

You make a fair point and it is something I do try very hard to take into account when teaching, and I also try to remember it myself with respect to my skiing - I am learning to celebrate the successes I experience and to be patient with myself when I don't make the progress I'd love to make.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
JT, Not in this thread, but there are numerous refs in various threads throughout the forum and for all the years of it's existance. However, as we know, you are one of the fortunate few who were/are able to learn by watching others (and watched the right ones). Most are not, and there is also a thread I see about how poorly the average brit skis! You already ski well enough to do all the fun stuff - don't confuse yourself with others of the slide around on blues and try to kill others on blacks variety! ps: I challenge you to come on the summer camp and not feel improvement next winter in your steep and deep skiing. (we'll let you play golf in the afternoons)

Red Leon, Never.

No-one is saying that obsession is a good thing (although I'm sure we all have them). We are talking about a couple of hours of professional help and a little dedicated practise for every 6 days skiing +/- the odd course.

pam w, You may be right that refusal to have lessons is more to do with fear than anything else.

Sad to say that this week we have a large number of older skiers around (at the very least over 60, and many who appear to be over 70), and none are brits. Doesn't that say something? I believe there are a number from countries like Slovenia, Chech Republic etc + of course France. Perhaps they are still enjoying skiing because they learnt to do it without too much force???
ski holidays



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy