 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
lynseyf, Was that Summit? I've used them twice now and been impressed, all their instructors now are advertised as BASI L2's or higher. I insisted on an ISIA at half term this year and got that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Colin B, no, it was Stoked.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
lynseyf, Thanks, I think they have instructors from all over Europe. I'd recommend Summit if you are there again. At 250ChF for a 3 hour lesson you want to know you are going to get a good instructor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
lynseyf,
My friend Hannah works at Stoked each year so you may be able to request her
and she is really nice so give them a call and see what they say. You will always get a good lesson from her.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
lynseyf, BASI Level 1 isn't supposed to be an on-mountain teaching qualification, but intended only for dry slopes incld snowdomes. However I do know of at least one BASI Level 1 working in Norway and as I've heard of unqualified instructors working in Switzerland in the not too distant past, I wouldn't put it beyond the realms of possibility that a BASI Level 1 who could ski well might be employed in Switzerland. That said I'd be very surprised if Stoked would consider employing anyone without at least a BASI Level 2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
The whole issue of intermediate tuition raised its head to me on my recent trip to Courmayeur. I haven't had lessons since my teenage years in the 80s and haven't really considered them as cost is always an issue. However there was a couple who joined our ski group where the husband was fearless, fast but slightly lacking in technique and a wife whose technique was good but who lacked confidence and speed. They were frustrated at not being able to ski together. His style of skiing frightened her and her speed of skiing meant he was always waiting for her to catch up. She also refused point blank to ski any run she didn't like the look of...
I would have said that out of the pair of them, he was the one that would benefit from tuition but he insisted she had a morning's private tuition to try and speed her up a bit. She was the first to admit that although she enjoyed the lesson and was shown a few runs that she liked the idea of going back to, she didn't learn anything and had no intention of ever skiing any faster. I agreed with her totally. For me the idea is to enjoy myself, not scare myself rigid and I'm happy skiing at my own pace. The instructor agreed her technique was not lacking and it was clearly a confidence issue, probably not something she would resolve in annual week-long ski trips...
I do find as my week progresses that my technique improves a little, but I consciously ski slowly so as to remain in control at all times. I rarely push boundaries and I hardly ever fall over. Maybe for some people it's not about going faster or skiing the steepest gnarliest blacks, it's just about bimbling about the mountains in complete control and enjoying the scenery and ambience. Do people like us really need lessons or is there nothing further we need to learn...?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Another good one in Austria is World Class Skiing run by BASI trainer Alex Leaf. I did a course with them last year and thoroughly reccomend them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
queen bodecia, I'd agree people like you don't really need lessons. I do "lessons" because I'm not satisfied with how I ski and want to get better. For me that's part of my interest and enjoyment in skiing. If someone's able to ski what they like and do it in good control, no need to improve further and no need for lessons (though it may be an idea to have one now and again to keep things in place or broaden horizons).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
queen bodecia, we all 'need' lessons because there's nobody, not even ISTDs and instructor trainers, who can't improve, change or update some aspect of their performance.
However, whether we want to have further lessons is a whole different matter - I'm always surprised, because I think quite differently, at the number of UK holidaymakers I see in the Alps who are quite happy to stay where they are skill wise. Their main criteria seems to be whether they can get around the mountain (blues/reds) reasonably and have a relaxed time. Nothing wrong with that, although for me it's something I can't really get my head round, but ultimately if they're happy, safe and don't think they can teach their mates (have seen a few disasters with that one) then who am I to say they must have lessons, it's their money after all.
They might be safer and enjoy it even more if they did though  
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've taken the odd refresher lesson from time to time, found them very useful, though often the teacher takes on more of a guides role half the time.
Have only ever had one 'bad' lesson experience in Fernie, BC - the guy taking the lesson seemed not to know that much about boarding and doesn't fill you with confidence when he falls over doing basic turns! We complained to the ski school, who to their credit gave us a refund and offered us a free session with another of their instructors next day, who was excellent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| slikedges wrote: |
| I wouldn't put it beyond the realms of possibility that a BASI Level 1 who could ski well might be employed in Switzerland. |
I kow a couple of L1s who taught for the ESS before they did their L2 award.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
queen bodecia, I wonder if you have missed the point about having lessons - it's not about skiing faster and knarlier (certainly not as far as I'm concerned), but about being able to do what you want with minimum effort and a lovely feeling of gliding along round the curves just as you would like. there should be harmony between the skier, the skis and the mountain. If you've found that, then you are probably right that you dont want to spend money on lessons, OTOH if you haven't got to that point (and you can find this at snowplough turn level) then maybe you should think again. On the question of confidence - I'm astonished that the instructor didn't think they could help your friend. There are lots of things you can do to improve confidence in a student, and no-one's technique is so good it's not an issue. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
The instructor agreed her technique was not lacking
|
Was that in Italy again? There is a recurrent theme of Italian instructors telling people there was nothing more they could teach them. Happened to friends of mine - before I ever skied with them, and I was duly intimidated. However they turned out to be (not to put too fine a point on it) pretty useless. I can't imagine any instructor I've ever skied with telling me - or anyone else for that matter - that there was nothing more they could teach them.
For me, lessons are about becoming more efficient, and - taking the long term view - being still able to ski when I am 80. Even though I have now been drawing my old age pension for a couple of years I can now enjoy a day's skiing more than I could 30 years ago, when I was relying on muscle power and joint strength which I just don't have any more. I can also cope with more difficult snow conditions (soft bumpy stuff, for example, which used to exhaust me) because I've been taught better technique. My ski role models remain two elderly Austrian ladies I saw on the slopes during my first holiday. While all the holidaymakers were panting around the place in daft coloured jackets, the two of them, in their "going to church best coats" were skiing with effortless elegance, looking like they would never, in a thousand years, fall over. I am getting closer to that ideal - another 10 years of lessons will see me there - though I still don't have the right sort of coat. But you have to find the right instructor - your friend clearly didn't.
But I don't think that "learning stuff" is for everybody. I enjoy sailing, and always loved learning something new and coping - with expert supervision so I feel 100% safe - with situations I would have avoided on my own. Similarly I enjoy a glass of whisky and watching a ski DVD and thinking about exercises to try out the next day, and I enjoy good lessons, too. I'd get bored if I just pottered around all day, every day, though that's great sometimes. If you thoroughly enjoy your holidays and don't want to ski any better than you do, then why pay extra for lessons? It just frustrates me when I know I'm doing something wrong, and arrive with aching legs at the bottom of a slope I should have been able to just glide down easily.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| roga wrote: |
queen bodecia, we all 'need' lessons because there's nobody, not even ISTDs and instructor trainers, who can't improve, change or update some aspect of their performance.
However, whether we want to have further lessons is a whole different matter - I'm always surprised, because I think quite differently, at the number of UK holidaymakers I see in the Alps who are quite happy to stay where they are skill wise. Their main criteria seems to be whether they can get around the mountain (blues/reds) reasonably and have a relaxed time. |
Isn't that the case with everything we do though. I guess we could all benefit from regular driving lessons, 'cause there's always room for improvement, but most of us are happy to potter around in a relaxed way. Similarly I've not thought about taking swimming or cycling lessons, both of which I do on a summer holiday, I've no doubt lessons would help me do either of those better but I'm happy just pottering about. For me (for myself) skiing is a recreational activity not a sport. As long as I'm out in the mountains in the snow I'm happy  .
That said, I'd like to be able to ski looking slightly more elegant but without skiing a lot more than I currently do I don't think that's going to change much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| peura wrote: |
That said, I'd like to be able to ski looking slightly more elegant but without skiing a lot more than I currently do I don't think that's going to change much. |
that's where you're wrong. You don't have to ski more, but you do have to want to ski better - it doesn't take all day, all week or lots of unpleasantness, just a bit of committment from you. Elegance and grace come from good technique, not necessarily from miles under the skis. It's perfectly possible to ski with elegance and flow at a very low level (SP turns on green slopes only).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
peura, that's precisely my point, although my principal reason for not having any more tuition is cost. It takes me all year to save up for my skiing holiday and I'd struggle to save any more. But all points taken on board...
Bizarrely, the chap I mentioned is now on about consigning his poor wife to ski school for the entire week next season. I still maintain that he's the one that needs lessons, not her. She doesn't want to ski any faster or tackle trickier runs, yet he is quite clearly not always in control and is fearlessly prepared to tackle anything...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
I'm not pushing her into having lessons because she worries that she'd be pushed too much, fall and lose what confidence she has (if I knew I could find an instructor who wouldn't do this I might suggest it again).
|
I have had lots of ski lessons and only once did I feel I was being "pushed" and that was with an ESF instructor - private lesson in the powder and he took me down a steep draglift track which was totally beyond me. Only got exhausted though, nothing serious. More commonly lessons will be on a slope which holds no fears for the pupil; you can't learn with clenched buttocks. I have literally had to bully some of our guests here into having a lesson - they've all had this fear of being taken outside their comfort zone - and they all come back with a big grin on their faces. When a group of us had three days of lessons in Tignes in October the four of us, with very different levels of experience, had super lessons together on a gentle blue slope - same slope for the whole time, focussing on those basic things we all need to get right.
It's such a shame that people are "afraid" of lessons for reasons like your wife's, when the exact opposite is true - she's far more likely to fall and hurt herself without an instructor than with one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| peura wrote: |
| Isn't that the case with everything we do though. I guess we could all benefit from regular driving lessons, 'cause there's always room for improvement, but most of us are happy to potter around in a relaxed way. Similarly I've not thought about taking swimming or cycling lessons, both of which I do on a summer holiday, I've no doubt lessons would help me do either of those better but I'm happy just pottering about. For me (for myself) skiing is a recreational activity not a sport. As long as I'm out in the mountains in the snow I'm happy . |
And who am I to gainsay your point of view, if you're happy then that's good.
However, I think that some of your examples above bear comment. First off I'd stick my neck out and say that skiing well is actually more difficult than driving well (but we all think our driving is great don't we  ). I was first on skis when I was about two and a half, when I took it up more seriously I was about 12 and did it regularly (locally on the Scottish mountains) for about 10 years, I dabbled for a few years after that then took a break for longer than I care to remember. I then took it up again seriously in 2006 and have re-learnt technique and just about everything as a result of modern equipment and the advances in technique in recent years. I'm still learning and still improving and can't see that ever ending to be honest.
In the case of driving I learnt late, passed my test first time, have driven in Europe and North America without incident and have never had any points on my licence (touch wood). I just wish it was as easy with skiing but I don't honestly believe it is. Yes, I'm sure I could get even better by taking advanced driving lessons and getting on a race track/skid track etc. but I'm more than competent at it and as good as most people on the road. In the case of cycling if I were to use my mountain bike on serious tracks I'd definitely get lessons because I think I'd be unsafe otherwise and the injuries you can get are horrendous (have you seen those injury photos they seem to publish with glee in the Mountain Biking magazines - urgh!). As it is I'm competent to take the kids down rough tracks in reasonably flat terrain so I'm fine with it and as I understand it there's not much more I can do on that type of terrain to make my cycling more efficient or safer. I'm a terrible swimmer so I won't pontificate about that one, suffice to say I don't go in the sea and avoid swimming baths unless the kids insist, I stay in the shallows and there's always a life guard around to drag me out if necessary
To my mind a mountain environment is very different, if a less competent skier were sticking to domes and dry slopes (although the later is probably more dangerous) then I guess that'd be an equivalent of my incompetent floundering in the shallow end of the local pool and my avoiding the ocean. In the mountain environment, even in clement weather on blues in the Alps (let's not mention Scotland, lol) there are steeper sections, the snow condition changes depending on where you are on the mountain, there are other people around at varying levels of competence who may not look where they are going or may fall over in your line, there are kids, teenagers and adults (in Austria some of whom may well be tanked up on the local beverage ) all over the place on sometimes crowded slopes and unlike the roads there are no lanes to make it more orderly. Throw in the weather factor and it'd get even more daunting but let's leave that aside. Now in this environment I would have thought it'd be a good idea to have as many skills (tools in the toolbox) as possible in order to deal safely with everything that may be thrown at you, just about getting by strikes me as rather hairy, stressful and potentially dangerous.
I'd also say that in my opinion pam w has hit the nail on the head when she suggests it's about skiing more efficiently. For example if I'm putting the amount of physical (and emotional) effort I see a great many low intermediate skiers putting into their turns how much more tiring and stressful is it going to be in the circumstances I describe above. However, if I can ski with some efficiency then I have more energy reserves left over for all those circumstances, I can ski for longer and I can gain more enjoyment from a less stressful experience. I can also, as pam suggests, ski into my old age and gain all the attendant health benefits and prolong my enjoyment - surely something we all aspire to?
| Quote: |
| That said, I'd like to be able to ski looking slightly more elegant but without skiing a lot more than I currently do I don't think that's going to change much. |
You'd be amazed at the differences a good instructor can make just by tweaking a few things, as one once said to me "you can do all the right things, just not necessarily in the right order" 
queen bodecia, I'm not sure where the "speed" thing comes from, you've mentioned this a couple of times. Often people mask (at least to themselves and others of a similar ability) a lot of poor technique in speed and a great many people (mostly men, at least I've never met a woman who has a speed for speeds sake obsession) seem to think that speeding down slopes is the be all and end all. Efficient and controlled carving at speed is one thing but the speed I see some people going at is frankly unsafe because they don't have the technique and consequently are barely in control and if something unplanned happens, change in snow quality/weather/slopes get more crowded etc., they simply don't have the ability (tools) to deal with such circumstances. The point of lessons is not to rev up the speed it's to give you the ability to control speed better if anything, be that at 10, 20, 30 ... or 70 KPH.
The funny thing I've found is that as I've developed my technique my skiing at times feels almost as if it's slowing down, at least in my mind. On a black where I might have previously been on the edge of control and terrified as my speed increased I can now ski faster than that point when I got really terrified but maintain that speed and my line with an amount of control that allows me to feel happy, exhilarated and at no point do I feel that I'm going too fast or am on the edge of control. In fact at times it feels slower than before almost as if time slows down, although in reality I am going faster - it's a great feeling 
Hopefully I've explained that last bit properly, anyone else care to agree or tell me I'm talking unintelligible tosh?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
peura, it sounds to me like you and your OH could do with meeting easiski - an excellent patient teacher who seems to be able to teach all levels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
I guess my question is, what measures can skiers on the more advanced side of intermediate take to make as certain as possible that their lessons are worthwhile?
D
|
Go on a Bash and book the relevant clinics. Good coaching, good value and even good company and holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
peura, Go on - camp in Venosc and ski the LDA glacier - you know you want to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
easiski, lol. Would make a change...
edit: what is the temperature like there in the summer? I guess the skiing temps aren't likely to be what I think of as cold (for skiing) but I'm thinking more of the camping temps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
we've been out here during the last 6 summers and so far every one has been better, weather-wise, than back in the UK.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
No worries about the address, google had already found that for me  and from there to the campsites. Sounds quite pleasant. Hmmm....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I'm convinced about the weather. At least at resort level, however I guess the snow will be rather different to what we're used to. Now thinking whether Mrs peura will cope with the altitude ok (she had a few problems in the Alps before), whether we want to make a cheap holiday into something more expensive, do we want another active holiday or just a "chill out" one, driving to the Alps (I've never driven on the "wrong side of the road" before although I've driven in Europe lots but always in LHD cars) etc... thinking on... might do one year if not this... edit: More likely than the cautious weeks although I think we'd both just fit in level one with one at either "end".
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
peura, seriously; driving RHD in europe is not a problem supposing you're looking properly far ahead. If the Mrs has problems with altitude then the thing is to acclimatise gently - stay in Venosc (about 900m I think), first day, up to LDA, second day if OK first, up to Cretes (all wandering gently and pic nic), 3rd day up to 2,600m, if still OK then up to glacier. It's very important to drink lots and to sit around and pause before doing anything. Also pedestrian return trips are quite cheap, so you could try the camping and see if she's OK. If yes, try 1 or 2 days skiing, thinking to come back the following year - worry about altitude gone. Lessons are -25% and most other things as well, like ski hire and so on. The snow is defferent of course, but pretty similar to what we're skiing in the village right now, but more granular and less icy inthe morning. You can chill much better (well, I can) in the mountains with nice weather.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
peura, Melt and re-freeze snow is fine if you pick the right moment. Too early and it's quite hard, but unlike the ice in winter you can edge OK as the grains become much bigger. However for nervous people you wouldn't suggest skiing very early either late spring or in summer. Later the snow begins to melt and goes through a stage where it's really lovely with an inch or two of soft, grainy stuff on top of a firm base. It then eventually (depending on temp and sunshine) becomes slushy. Light slush is quite nice for cautious skiers as it slows you down. All the very novice bods here last week liked it. If she's only had a bad experience once it's likely to have been triggered by something other than just the altitude such as a bug, cold or something which can make a big diff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| easiski wrote: |
| We all find it harder - there's less oxygen, so it's natural. |
I notice it every time we come to the apartment in Morzine (1000m). We arrive, walk up three flights of stairs and are always out of breath.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
. If I really wanted to learn to ski "properly" I feel I should be skiing much, much more than one week out of the year. Similar to driving a car, I learnt the basics to pass the test in probably 30 hours or so, I'd say a lot of the learning to drive took place after that.
). If I could find an instructor there who I knew would keep her with her comfort zone, I'd be happy to ask her again. However, I don't know that we're keen enough to go on a holiday specifically for learning to ski so it would have to tie in with a more general holiday.
. Hopefully this will make our next winter holiday affordable 