 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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andyph, back then I was the staff!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Conversely on an unpisted run you do have the chance of stopping quite soon on a large mogul.
RobW, in my experience, really steep snow doesn't actually get mogulled.
From what I've read in this thread so far though, my guess is that it's only the initial bumps on Chavanette that are upsetting most of the people (the ones who shouldn't be there anyway) and not the actual gradient as it seems to be relatively tame.
I'm sure fitness helps against injuries and mistakes too though. I skied some 1000m vertical, mogully dotted blacks and dotted reds in St Anton and Zurs last year which were not much steeper than say 35 degrees but were just so relentless that they each felt like you'd undergone an endurance test by the time you'd finished. There were occasionally folk on those runs who were really not enjoying themselves and looked like they were going to spend the best part of an hour getting down them. 
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ctskifam, good picture - the cliffs I were referring to are the outcrops that go right over to the line of the chair. FlyingStantoni tells us that the run has now been moved right (as we look) to avoid the prospect of making an unwitting journey over one of them on ones derriere.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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http://www.virtualtahoe.com/pressbox/SlideLibrary/Winter/Gunbarrel.jpg
Gunbarrel @ Heavenly.
It's the wide run at the top which is about 30 degrees before taking the middle treelined path and steepening to its steepest part which is at least 35 degrees before mellowing out to 20-25 degrees to the base. It is considered one of the harder mogul endurance runs in the US. It's like a harder version of the Swiss Wall, except the Swiss Wall has a higher potential injury rate probably due to hazards and the lack of good skiers skiing it.
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| Vipa wrote: |
| ...the drop in to the Argentierre glacier at the top of Grand Montetts, Chamonix.... |
The top of the wall is steeper. When you look down it you see a mile of the same all the way down.
How does that sound? 
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| moffatross wrote: |
| Conversely on an unpisted run you do have the chance of stopping quite soon on a large mogul. |
It's six of one and half a dozen of the other.
At least on a groomed run you have a fighting chance of self-arresting. Try that on the Swiss Wall and there's a good chance you'll ragdoll. You can also get air off the bumps.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| red 27 wrote: |
| ctskifam, good picture - the cliffs I were referring to are the outcrops that go right over to the line of the chair. FlyingStantoni tells us that the run has now been moved right (as we look) to avoid the prospect of making an unwitting journey over one of them on ones derriere. |
(Agree, nice picture). That's the one.
As I understand it, the run used to extend left (as we look at the picture) nearly as far as the peak on the left as we look at it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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FlyingStantoni, I don't recall the run ever going far enough out to skier's right to make the cliffs a problem. That could just be memory issues but IIRC, the "piste" has been much the way it is now since I first set eyes on it in 1988.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The wall is great run, as you need to ski it rather than get down it to enjoy it. Just remember you don't have to do it all in one go down the rut line. IIRC there are some 'nice' mogul runs to be found from the chair below and to the right of the wall to warm up. I personally prefer the blacks by the coupe du monde.
Having been to the PDS at Easter a few times I have seen the remains of big slides from the cliffs to the left of the wall (looking up), would imagine these have been controlled slides.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rayscoops, that is definitely NOT 40 degrees.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rayscoops, oh dude - you had easy - moguls the size of Volkswagen Beetles were all I remember. One false move and it was two bumps on the noggin and wake up in Morgins hossy 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FlyingStantoni, how does the wall compare with the top section of Bouquetin (sp?) on Mt Chery (apart from being longer)?
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just for some more comparison it makes Mont Fort in Verbier look like Brentwood alps. Steeper than Tortin too and with much worse consequences
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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red 27, yeah, but Tortin is for [Sean Connery accetnt]pussies[/Sean Connery accent]
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| skiking4 wrote: |
| rayscoops, that is definitely NOT 40 degrees. |
The pictures don't show the top of the run. Well, the first picture (taken from afar) does - if I recall correctly it's at the interface between the shadow and sunshine lines. I've never been down it but have been up the lift which goes up the face. We saw a guy at the bottom starting to climb up the face, and then saw his ski about ten feet down from the top. He'd taken a tumble and fallen the entire run down.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| FlyingStantoni, how does the wall compare with the top section of Bouquetin (sp?) on Mt Chery (apart from being longer)? |
Tricky question and something the other people might want to pitch into.
The top of the Swiss Wall is definitely steeper.
Personally, I think I'd rate Bouquetin, the Torgon Wall and (probably) the bottom section of Renard (Plaine Dranse) all as technically more demanding than the Swiss Wall. It's much harder to ski any of them well than it is to ski the Swiss Wall well - primarily because the Swiss Wall is all about BIG bumps.
Bouquetin has the tricky narrow section; the Torgon Wall has the strange camber and the bottom section of Renard always has bumps that are twice the size when you're on them as they appear on the lift.
None of them, though, have the "consequences" of the Swiss Wall.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skiking4 wrote: |
| rayscoops, that is definitely NOT 40 degrees. |
how can you possibly tell from my photos  we are only talking about the top 20 or 30 meters or so and that area can only be seen from the long distance photo which I took from the flat section at the end of the run !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bluebell, hang on - a blind dude was going down the wall just with someone shouting right or left from behind?
Are you sure?? - remember lots of people where dark glasses when they're skiing 
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You know it makes sense.
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red 27, Absolutely sure! As I said, there was a whole group of them around that week. I watched in full admiration as this chap was guided down from instructions behind him. Some of them had ear pieces and I assume were receiving instructions via this too. We also saw them on other pistes of varying levels. The most embarrassing thing is being overtaken by one 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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red 27, sounds like you had your eyes shut with fear half of the time yourself 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bluebell, Maybe that's the answer to conquering steep pistes then. I might try it blinfolded, although I'm not sure I'd trust any of my mates enough to ski behind me shouting, "To me... to you..."
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bluebell, wow! I guess the next thing is an Assistance Dog on a snowboard!
rayscoops, ALL the time as I recall... My descent involved the "Traverse of Shame" bouncing over the moguls from one side of the piste to t'other desperatly tring to lose height and wanting it to be over and hating myself for starting skiing at all and then at the bottom me and my mates all back-slap each other and say "yeah, not too bad really - a Red I would say... Shall we get a beer?" 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Schuss in Boots, ah buy was 20 year ago... Nowadays, i would just say "let's give that red run a miss and get a beer" 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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For my money Le Tunnel in Alpe d'Huez is steeper than the Swiss Wall. But it's a while since I've done either. Anyone care to compare?
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Stats via Google Earth. Some comparison:
Swiss Wall @ Porte de Soleil: 865 vertical over 1447 length = 30.87*. Not counting run out.
252 vertical over 302 length = 39.84*.
Gunbarrel @ Heavenly: 1593 vertical over 3270 length = 25.98*. Marketed as 1800 vertical feet.
201 vertical over 302 length = 33.65*.
Al's Run @ Taos: 1479 vertical over 2803 length = 27.82*.
207 vertical over 302 length = 34.43*.
3 famous bump runs. Some additional notes:
All are under lifts, but Al's Run is the only liftline and is one of the only trails, maybe even the only one, to be seen from the base. Huge psych out.
Swiss Wall is probably the iciest, due to the most skiers coming down with the least snow. Yet, it's also the widest.
Gunbarrel is the longest. Unlike Al's Run, which is 50% being of a very flat grade and another 50% of being 30+ degrees, Gunbarrel is also a solid 25+ degrees the entire 1800 vertical feet down. Major endurance test there.
Swiss Wall is the most dangerous. Rocks and incapable skiers = DANGER.
All are pretty hyped up.
IMO:
Hardest to ski in powder: Gunbarrel
Hardest to ski in normal bumps: Gunbarrel and Swiss Wall
Hardest to ski in icy bumps: Swiss Wall
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skiking4, Wall is visible from base of chair. If by Base of "resort", well which resort. That sort of metric doesn't really work for European networks.
I see no reason for it to be iciest either. Anyway, as soon as it ices up, it gets closed. That is one rope you don't want to duck under.
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skiking4,
That is a good bit of information put together.
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FAQ
. Personally I find the drop off more intimidating than the narrow bit near the bottom (which I just find an exercise in rhythm). Agree that falling on the Wall would be more regrettable, though. 