 Poster: A snowHead
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stevomcd, unlucky mate, 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The guy is willing to do the decent thing and pony-up for a new board, so fingers crossed his insurance comes through!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stevomcd, should have been riding straighter rather than doing all those prissy turns and confusing the poor skier 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rayscoops, 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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stevomcd, a big problem is that you can not really use 10 meters of the piste doing carved turns (5 meters at the most maybe?), the pistes are just too busy for that, which is why I have had a tendacy not do so. I have only been boarding for 4 years or so and all I know is busy packed pistes (although the smaller Austrian resorts this year have been completely different and an eye opener for quieter pistes), which is why i made reference earlier to edge control and weight transfer being just as important as carving - a lot of time there is just not enough space to carry out complete carved turns safely, very sad all round
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i had my first ever lesson at a resort on friday
riding rails and kickers
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| stevomcd, a big problem is that you can not really use 10 meters of the piste doing carved turns (5 meters at the most maybe?), the pistes are just too busy for that, which is why I have had a tendacy not do so. |
Maybe try boarding at different times of the year? January and early Feb are usually quiet, and similarly mid-March through until Easter. Even in the big French resorts where I tend to do most of my skiing it's more than quiet enough to do pretty much what you want on piste, and at busier times of the year (perhaps except for mid-Feb) there's usually out-of-the-way parts of the ski domain which are not too busy to have a bit of an on-piste blast.
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Agree with rob, plus 10m is feck-all. If you're riding places where you can't use 10m of the slope, go somewhere else! That's the worst feeling in snowboarding - having to take 3 other people into account every time you make a turn.
Run was very quiet in this case and over 100m wide. No problem at all to be doing what I was doing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In today's other news, was repairing some base damage on another board (my big, powder board) and discovered it has de-laminated at the spot where I broke the edge a few weeks ago. So I'm down two boards in a week. Great. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, stevomcd, a lot of the trips for a few weeks a year that us mere mortals arrange (who have no access to apartments)_are with others who are not always that flexible, and if I suggested that I want to go to the outer reaches of a ski domain to practice some carved turns I would be shot ! I have been to many resorts which are quiet so it is not a massive problem and I quite often take short trips on my own which are ideal for working out the problems in technique etc., but when you are with a group of skiers who basically want to get from 'a to b' as quick as possible (for many different reasons) there is not really the option. My basic point is that on the whole the popular ski resorts are too busy to practice 10 meter wide turns and I mainly pick a narrow 3 m width at the edge of the piste and do narrow turns because it is a bit like a 'rollerball' track at times out there and not a piste. Be careful out there kids
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My only two major wipeouts in recent years have been due to instructors leading their train of tightly packed students right across the piste, to the fence or rock face. In the two wipeouts, this has totally shut the door on me and in the second accident 7 students skied into the pile up.
It nearly happened again in La Plagne a couple of weeks ago and was averted by me shouting a stream of obscenities at the instructor as he lead his group to the very edge of the piste.
These trains are the single most dangerous thing on any piste as the students refuse to look anywhere except for at the back of the person in front and the instructor ambles down, oblivious of the carnage he is creating behind him. If the instructor committed suicide by skiing off a cliff, all of the students would follow.
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You know it makes sense.
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rayscoops, seriously mate, you're not doing turns in a 3m radius. Your board alone is (at least) 1.5m wide. I know what you mean and do the same myself when forced to ride a busy trail but really 10m is about a minimum space to expect to use when travelling at speed and doing anything other than riding straight down the fall-line.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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good god, now we are arguing about carving !! take this to BZK please.. this is a peace and love to all men area of the forum 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've never had a lesson, although a skilful friend did get me started. Now I just read technique and see what others are doing.
And yep, those skier convoys often cause me to interrupt a perfectly good run as they give me the fear when they go right to the edge of the piste (in areas where off-piste is not an option).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Glad I am not a snowboard instructor because there must be very little work out there - sounds like after the initial first 3 days of learning to board very few boarders have lessons (except for specialist reasons e.g. like learning rails etc maybe) but it seems many boarders do read and listen and learn and practice to attain better technique, which suggest that boarding is not so technical that lessons are a necessity, although I am sure it would not be a bad thing to go out on the slopes with an instructor
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rayscoops, thats why most snowboarding instructors are ski instructors
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DebbiDoesSnow, indeed, and passing themselves off as God 
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Hi, I'm new on here.
I ski and Board. I learnt to ski as a kid, then switched to a board ten years ago. However, this year I bought some K2 Extremes and have switched back.
I have always been a massive advocate of lessons in boarding and agree with the guy who said that you only ever see one or two really good people up the mountain who carve properly.
I do have to take issue with the guy who was saying about the swiss teaching method of using arms in a turn.
This is true if you only take the learn to board lessons with them as they consider it the quickest way to learn to turn. However as you progress to intermediate standard and beyond, they teach you to keep your arms down and ride smooth as well as stylish lines.
Most Brits would not know this as they tend to only get a weeks worth of lessons.
I've probably done 3 full weeks of lessons, and then got a private lesson on every holiday I took.
I also disagree about the ski/board comparison, as the their is more to learn in boarding than most people ever discover.
cheers
stu
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stu330, welcome to snowHeads 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My reply to that would be that if people could work it all out for themselves then why do the majority of boarders go down slopes with their back arm flapping about.
the plus minus thing is designed to teach people about where to position their bodies when they are learning to turn, not where to put their arms when they are developing turning and going on to carving.
As I said before, if people don't think they need lessons then that is fine, but for smooth and stylish riding, then I would suggest lessons as their are a lot of people riding who think they are better than they are.
I was in Nendaz last december and went out with the rep on a guided trip around siviez and verbier. He was telling the group how he liked to carve down one particular slope at high speed and he would meet us at the bottom if we could keep up. The funny thing was that he couldn't even carve and was on his fifth season!!
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All I did was level's 1-2 at Tamworth (3 hour sesh), and 3-4 at MK (another 3 hour sesh i think). I never bothered with level 5 as i could already link turns by the end of 4, and I sorted myself out on the drag lift.
I then had my first week on the mountain with an undersanding group who were happy going at a slower pace till i picked things up. That said I had 1 or 2 shocking days of riding falling left right and centre, and with the benefit of hidnsight i'd really have benefitted from a day or two of lessons. By the middle of the trip however i was happy riding all the reds.
My next trip I could tackle pretty much anything, and get down steep blacks, albeit sloppily, and I was enjoying the riding, and was having few problems. However what i found was watching short camera clips of myself was my technique was, frankly shocking. Kicking the back of the board around and flailing the back arm as stu330 mentions.
I had to make real concious efforts to change my technique and get out of these bad habits, and it took quite some time.
I'm much better and smoother now and can confidently rip about on most stuff, and my riding style is much more relaxed. That said when i'm knackered and on the harder stuff I occassionally find some of the bad habits sneaking back in.
Conclusion - with retrospect i'd have benefitted from some lessons in-resort on my first few trips.
If you pick stuff up quickly you can learn to board and get to stage where you can enjoy it and ride most things very quickly, like I did. But chances are you'll pick up bad habits on the way which could hamper future progression. If you can afford it, a few good lessons will go along way.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The reason they teach that in the first place is because, as you are probably well aware, you need speed in order to carve. To do extension and reflection turns you don't. The arm thing is the easiest way to get people to put their bodies in the right position, as if the arms are doing it right, the body will copy it. Simple teaching methods.
The idea of giving people learn to turn lessons is exactly that.
There's no point teaching beginners to carve when they have only just learnt stand up or negotiate their first turns as back then you don't really understand how to translate what is going on with your feet into something meaning full.
In the same way, in ski school they teach you how to snowplough, but once you can parrallel you hardly ever snowplough again. In skiing you learn to snowplough, then slide slip and then they may get onto carving by the end of your first week.
On a board, they teach falling leaf and then linked turns, then extension and reflection turns. They normally don't even broach carving until the second week.
Yes, you can learn to carve by watching other people and working it out for yourself, but you will perfect it quicker if you have someone to tell you how it should be done, and what you are doing wrong.
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You lot are taking all the fun out of boarding
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You know it makes sense.
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DebbiDoesSnow, is it more fun to be less competent than you could be?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, no but for me (& most others on here ) its a hobby that I partake in 1-2 weeks a year, I'm not entering competitons nor is it my job. If I spent all week practicing my perfect carving i would have a very dull holiday !
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Poster: A snowHead
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| stu330 wrote: |
I do have to take issue with the guy who was saying about the swiss teaching method of using arms in a turn.
This is true if you only take the learn to board lessons with them as they consider it the quickest way to learn to turn. However as you progress to intermediate standard and beyond, they teach you to keep your arms down and ride smooth as well as stylish lines.
Most Brits would not know this as they tend to only get a weeks worth of lessons.
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but why teach a bad method to begin with. BASI doesnt even begin to mention upper body rotation for beginners. It's just a quick results method that leads to problems later on IMO. Far better to understand about pedalling and weight distribution than hitting or missing a turn with the spinny arms thing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DebbiDoesSnow, each to their own, and you're absolutely right it should be a holiday that you enjoy. My experience is that my ski lessons have without fail been enjoyable and great fun, and the better I ski the more of the mountain is mine and the more fun I have.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, I'm not condoning lessons at all, I used to have ski lessons on every ski holiday I had. I may even take more boarding lessons. The point I was making was about the excessive 'carving' comments being made on here as if that is the be all & end all of boarding ... its not . I think its just some hangup that is crossing over from their previous skiing experience.
People take different things from sports and so it should be, just imagine how dull it would be if all the skiers & boarders carved down the mountain with the right amount of piste being used ? Its good to analyse & improve your technique but above all, it should be fun regardless if you arm flaps at the back! If you are constantly critical & pushing for the perfect run, you will not enjoy your short time on the slopes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DebbiDoesSnow, all fair comments. But I just can't get my head around the concept that lessons are not fun, or that pushing to be better at skiing (or boarding, although I speak from a point of ignorance) is boring. For a good few years I was stuck on the "intermediate plateau" and that became frustrating and tedious. I then discovered that you could find a decent instructor and I had (and continue to have) great fun in lessons, met a number of people who are now close friends, started to ski all the mountain and most importantly rediscovered my passion for skiing. The only downside to this was the fact that lessons aren't cheap.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, I fully agree that lessons can be fun, just was getting frustrated at hearing the term 'carving'.
You don't see them banging on about carving on Xgames do you? "oo look at shaun whites carve, exceptional use of the piste there" no, they are commenting on his air
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| DebbiDoesSnow wrote: |
rob@rar, I fully agree that lessons can be fun, just was getting frustrated at hearing the term 'carving'.
You don't see them banging on about carving on Xgames do you? "oo look at shaun whites carve, exceptional use of the piste there" no, they are commenting on his air |
I understand what you say, although if my skiing experience is even remotely relevant it is decent carved, linked turns that most people have difficulty with on piste, so that might explain the fascination.
If we were watching Zoe Gillings in boardercross races we'd be very interested in how well she carved (along with a bunch of other stuff). I'd guess that boardercross is much closer to what the vast majority of recreational boarders do when on holiday than Shaun White's X-Games wizardry.
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DebbiDoesSnow, learning a proper carve will sort you right out in the hard icy january days. Carving is a ski thing though imo and just one element of boarding. Deep down I'm a skateboarder who happens to be able to ride a snowboard, if I could figure out a way of kickflipping it at speed I would.
Anyone noticed that carvers wear ski clothes though? Not one baggy back bottom trouser amongst them.
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| Jonny luv plums wrote: |
| [Carving is a ski thing though imo and just one element of boarding. |
Just one element of skiing as well, and one which frequently you can't use in a pure form because the terrain is too steep for those kids of speeds.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stu330 wrote: |
| The reason they teach that in the first place is because, as you are probably well aware, you need speed in order to carve. To do extension and reflection turns you don't. The arm thing is the easiest way to get people to put their bodies in the right position, as if the arms are doing it right, the body will copy it. Simple teaching methods. The idea of giving people learn to turn lessons is exactly that. There's no point teaching beginners to carve when they have only just learnt stand up or negotiate their first turns as back then you don't really understand how to translate what is going on with your feet into something meaning full. In the same way, in ski school they teach you how to snowplough, but once you can parrallel you hardly ever snowplough again. In skiing you learn to snowplough, then slide slip and then they may get onto carving by the end of your first week. On a board, they teach falling leaf and then linked turns, then extension and reflection turns. They normally don't even broach carving until the second week. Yes, you can learn to carve by watching other people and working it out for yourself, but you will perfect it quicker if you have someone to tell you how it should be done, and what you are doing wrong. |
I did not really mean super duppa carving (edit - I never even mentioned carving), I meant teach a technique that is about edge transfer etc from the first lesson, rather than 'turn your body and the board will follow', which is the biggest load of bollax I have ever come across, because the board (running flat) is likely to catch a slight divot in the snow and does not then continue to turn, the body however keeps turning and the boarder falls because his/her center of gravity is in the wrong place - this is why you see so many learner boarders look as if they are being pole-axed is because they are being taught something that is inherently dangerous.
I can see no merit is teaching bad and unsound techniques within the first three days of boarding - you get taught falling leaf/garland (equivalent of snow plough maybe) which is all about edge control and the simple extension of that is to transfer from a heel edge to a toe edge to link a turn, not to twist your body and hope the board will follow it around 
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FAQ
; As you progress you quickly work out (and do not need an instructor to teach you this) that twisting your body to initiate turns is liklely kill you 
