 Poster: A snowHead
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There are a few halos choking people on here - never knew there were so many people who loved their fellow man!! 
On my first holiday to the mountains, I was waiting just outside the Belle Plagne cable car, next to a big group of German skiers, at the bottom of a sledging slope, when as I managed to maintain my balance withouth unstrapping, some little oik on sledge came razzing down the hill towards me, kneecapping me in the process and sending me flying into to the German posse. Said 'oik' was maybe five or six, was pretty indignant on impact about me standing where I was and had mum (very posh) steaming down the hill after him, shouting all sorts of profanities about her 'angel' being in peril. When she arrived I was in the process of untangling myself from some huge bavarian and his missus, still with snowboard attached, sledge on my head (sans child) and feeling worse for wear.
Now, I could have kicked off, told Mummy that her little precious was in fact a weapon of mass destruction and that the Germans shouldn't have been standing around, plotting an invasion of the nearst bar. The sledge could have gone AWOL as I lost my temper and the kid could have got a mouthful off me. The Germans could have equally told me that I was about to end up with a fat lip for smashing up their little conflab and given me a severe kicking for standing in the wrong place in the way of a noted sledging spot. Either way, someone could have got the right ar$e and it could have kicked off.
But it didn't.
I understood that even though the kid on the sledge was being supervised, sometimes these things happen and maybe I should have expected something to happen seeing as there were sledgers around. Okay, I was hurt and the kid was out of control, but if I'd have grabbed the sledge and thrown it ddown the hill, how responsible would that have made me? As for the Germans, they just laughed when it happened, picked themselves up and brushed themselves off and just carried on gabbing. Sledger's mum was rightfully bothered about her child but was apologetic about what happened. Everyone was happy and we carried on doing our things.
There's a time and a place for getting uppity with people just because you don't like the cut of their jib, but generally, being mangnanimous, having a quiet, considered word and not trying to excacerbate the situation with rash actions works like a charm.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Specialman wrote: |
| There's a time and a place for getting uppity with people just because you don't like the cut of their jib, but generally, being mangnanimous, having a quiet, considered word and not trying to excacerbate the situation with rash actions works like a charm. |
That'll convert a reckless skier into a considerate one? I really doubt it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, okay, let's just throw people's skis around, put them in a dangerous situation, and generally look like a load of interfering busy-bodies. Yes, that'll be great. Some people....
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If our recent Dolomites experience is anything to go by then I would suggest that the British are the most level headed of all the races. Many folks deserved a good punch on the nose for their rudeness. No wonder there have been so many European wars.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Frosty the Snowman, I couldn't agree more as I have just returned from Arabba. In fact the Italian speaking people I thought were pretty well behaved. To my amazement, som of the worst rudeness was from Scandinavians which surprised me. Maybe I just bumped into the few rude ones that exist.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| I would suggest that the British are the most level headed of all the races |
... utill we get tanked up.
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Specialman,
| Quote: |
Sledger's mum was rightfully bothered about her child but was apologetic about what happened.
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Surely that's the main difference with the OP? The original oik apparently was in control enough to be allowed on the slopes unsupervised but made no apology, in fact tried to blame the down-hill skier for the collision. In the absence of any mitigating apology, I still say the OP was right to teach the kid a lesson. If he'd been nearer to a lift it would have been even better to report him (depositing the ski as proof of ID) and leave it to the authoritays to mete out justice.
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| Specialman wrote: |
| rob@rar, okay, let's just throw people's skis around, put them in a dangerous situation, and generally look like a load of interfering busy-bodies. Yes, that'll be great. Some people.... |
My preference, by a very large margin, would be pisteurs with the power to confiscate lift passes (temporarily or permanently) who would be out on the slopes giving advice on responsible skiing and occasionally using the power to ban people for the worst examples of reckless skiing. It would be a powerful message about what is expected in terms of consideration to your fellow slope users, and IMO much more likely than FIS codes or quiet words to make more people act responsibly. Until that happens I don't have a problem with a little bit of 'community-policing'. I don't think the "it's none of my business" approach has been that successful in reducing the number of people who ski with dangerously little control...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not really in response to Bertie's experience .. more of a general comment. I sometimes get a bit scared with the comments on here in reaction to crashes.
Ok, I know there are the boy/girl racer types but I still believe the vast majority of people that are skiing around me aren't completely reckless. I have never (thankfully and touch wood) ran into anyone else myself, with the minor exception of stopping too close to MrRibena while he videoed my wonderful skiing and us both ending a tangle - a real You've Been Framed contender. Actually the experience really threw into question the advice I once overheard where an 'experienced' skier explained the best way to learn hockey stops was to fling yourself towards the nearest pylon and hey presto! 
I have however been mown down myself. It hurt, it shouldn't have happened but the person was very apologetic, got a bit of a hop and I can forgive and forget.
There is inherent conflict between trying improve as a skier, which does require some risk-taking, however measured, and trying to minimise the number and extent of the risks being taken by everyone on the slopes. I take lessons on every trip and follow the FIS rules and try my best to stay within my bounds but I have lost control sometimes. If I can't get myself back under control quickly, one tactic I use is to head for the bank at the side of the piste (obviously not on a cliff! and preferably not when it is frozen solid which I can assure is not a very nice experience). It doesn't happen often but I still consider it more luck than anything else that I haven't crashed into someone to date. Maybe I'm underselling my judgement. Maybe the reason I haven't crashed into someone is BECAUSE I only push the enveolope when there is no-one else around or maybe not because not every loss of control has been down to speed or pushing myself. I've lost concentration for a second plenty of times and 99.9% of the time it's no big deal but in the wrong place, at the wrong time it could be highly dangerous.
Nobody's perfect and accidents do happen and I'm prepared to give the majority of my fellow skiers the benefit of the doubt and I hope if I am ever the cause of an incident that the person/their family/nearby snowheads won't hang, draw and quarter me.
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bertie bassett, good work (so long as you were pretty sure of where the blame lay). The only question is whether your interference was warranted given that the woman and her chap were on the case, but I think that it was.
I am the proprietor of two 14 yo kids, and I had occasion a couple of times last week to remind my son to ski slowly in busy areas, especially if there are beginners around. If he skied as badly and inconsiderately as that chap, I hope that in my absence, someone would give him a real bollocking; if they did, I think that he'd take it on the chin and apologise. His problem is not that he decides to ski inconsiderately but that occasionally, he forgets that to an inexperienced skier, someone whizzing past 3 or 4 yards away can be off putting, to say the least. It's thoughtlessness, a common trait in 14 yo boys, I'm told, and is best dealt with by a ticking off, certainly not by being ignored. It's natural enough for lads of that age to want to whizz about and show off a bit, but they won't grow up if they're not taken to task when they get it wrong. My daughter does not seem to require reminding about these things, although she is as fast as her brother when conditions allow.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| MissRibena wrote: |
| There is inherent conflict between trying improve as a skier, which does require some risk-taking, however measured, and trying to minimise the number and extent of the risks being taken by everyone on the slopes. |
I don't believe it is a big conflict. I think there are two questions you need to ask when you're skiing around the place:
(1) do I have enough control to change my speed or direction very suddenly if the skiers below me do something unexpected? Obviously the higher your speed the more control you need.
(2) if I fall will my 'spill zone' take me close enough to other skiers that I could hit them? Obviously the higher your speed the larger your spill zone.
If you can answer 'yes' to (1) and 'no' to (2) there's no problem and anything untoward that happens is genuinely an accident. However, if your answer to (1) is no, or your answer to (2) is yes then you're skiing to close to the other slope users and you should either slow down or give yourself a bit of extra room. Skiing is inherently a risky thing to do, but taking personal responsibility for those two questions will make it a less risky activity for you and the people around you.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not all daughters are like that. I had to remind mine that one needs to be more in control last week. The first I was aware of the 'incident' was when I felt a tugging at the rear of my skis which nearly had me over and then heard a yelp. She had skied my over the rear of my skis and taken herself out. Despite the fact that I hadn't even seen her she seemed to believe I was at fault for turning in front of her. I had to remind her of the uphill skier's responsibility. Nevertheless we managed to have a laugh at it. I told her that one really needs to have an edge when skiing (unless shussing) and that one can go pretty fast on modern carvers with an edge. She's a good skier but just a bit lazy perhaps. She likes to think she can ski faster than me which I think was perhaps the root of the problem in this case ! Incidentally the piste was empty apart from us thankfully.
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andyph, so if the lad who the OP had a go at was being accompanied by his mum, that would have been okay? By the way, the kid who mowed me down on his sledge just looked at me and didn't apologise. He was old enough to string a sentence together with his mum so should maybe have been able to string an apology together too. But then again, I don't flip out that easily so ket it go, despite my throbbing shins telling me otherwise.
However, that 'gobby' French lad who had a crazy Ros Beef shouting at him probably thinks A) the English are a bunch of c***s, B) anyone over the age of 30 is a total nob, and C) people should think like him. Typical teenage mentality. I still think nicking his ski put him in danger as a result and you've basically just turned an ugly situation even uglier.
I suppose that in the case of the OP, you had to have been there - who knows how we react in a split-second when the blood boils; Just look at road rage or getting impatienet in a queue at the shops as perfect examples of this.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I bet you would'nt have picked up skis belonging to a 30 year old rugby playing bloke!
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Probably not, unless he had an English shirt on...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Has BB made any reponse yet?
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Poster: A snowHead
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holidayloverxx, sadly he is in Hospital with a 160cm twin-tip shoved up his jacksie...
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 24-02-09 15:02; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, I think we are more or less in agreement. And if you ask yourself those questions often enough they breed good habits which lessen the risk. I like to think that I'm careful and that I take the right precautions but nobody can say, hand on heart, 'I know for sure that I'll never ski into someone by mistake'. My main point is that even with the best habits and most careful person in the world, accidents do happen and not everyone who crashes into someone is a daredevil and we need to try to keep that in mind too.
Sometimes it sounds like 'ski-rage' on snowheads but I suppose it's often part of a search for someone to blame for everything.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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MissRibena, yes, we are in agreement. I think you're right that few of us, if any, could say hand-on-heart that we will never be responsible for a collision (I know I couldn't) but there are some pretty easy to understand measures we can take to reduce significantly the chance of collisions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Specialman wrote: |
andyph, so if the lad who the OP had a go at was being accompanied by his mum, that would have been okay? By the way, the kid who mowed me down on his sledge just looked at me and didn't apologise. He was old enough to string a sentence together with his mum so should maybe have been able to string an apology together too. But then again, I don't flip out that easily so ket it go, despite my throbbing shins telling me otherwise.
However, that 'gobby' French lad who had a crazy Ros Beef shouting at him probably thinks A) the English are a bunch of c***s, B) anyone over the age of 30 is a total nob, and C) people should think like him. Typical teenage mentality. I still think nicking his ski put him in danger as a result and you've basically just turned an ugly situation even uglier.
I suppose that in the case of the OP, you had to have been there - who knows how we react in a split-second when the blood boils; Just look at road rage or getting impatienet in a queue at the shops as perfect examples of this. |
Bit of a difference between a 6 year old mucking about on a sledge (on a sledging slope, didn't you say?) and a 14 year old ripping crowded pistes like a tw*t, wouldn't you say? If the teenagers mum had been with him, then it should have been her on the receiving end of the abuse (or providing the apology), so she could "explain" it to her prodigy later. It's just a matter of taking responsibility.
BTW, the French lad probably thought all those things anyway. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree with the whole idea of taking responsibility, or at least apologising to someone when you have an accident with them.
The similarity between the six-year-old who kneecapped me (not on a designated sledging slope, just somewhere popular with sledgers) and the French 14-year-old with his baggy pants and braces is they're both kids who should have respect and manners instilled in them. Neither did. Granted, the teeneger should act more grown up because he's older but as we all know, teenagers are a law unto themselves in all respects and act more like six-year-olds at tims than actual six-year-olds!!! 
I still don't see the OP's reasoning behind teaching him a lesson though when he's clearly just a kid. It sounds like the OP had a full-on argument with him, like you'd have an argument with a grown man. I know kids are growing up quicker but he's still a kid and if some do-gooder, middle-aged bloke attempted to pinch my kid's ski to teach him some manners, I'd be pretty pi$$ed off and not in agreement with them because they feel it's their duty as an adult to tell other people's kids how it should be done. That's not leading by example.
e
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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If he's old enough to ski on his own then he's old enough to bear responsibility. If his parent / guardian / whatever isn't around then he's going to get a bit of 'advice'. If they are and they aren't doing anything to moderate his behaviour, then they too will get a piece of 'advice'.
Let's face it, if most people on this board's child did something similar, I'm sure they'd be giving them hell before anyone else had the opportunity to.
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| MissRibena wrote: |
Not really in response to Bertie's experience .. more of a general comment. I sometimes get a bit scared with the comments on here in reaction to crashes.
Ok, I know there are the boy/girl racer types but I still believe the vast majority of people that are skiing around me aren't completely reckless. I have never (thankfully and touch wood) ran into anyone else myself, with the minor exception of stopping too close to MrRibena while he videoed my wonderful skiing and us both ending a tangle - a real You've Been Framed contender. Actually the experience really threw into question the advice I once overheard where an 'experienced' skier explained the best way to learn hockey stops was to fling yourself towards the nearest pylon and hey presto!
I have however been mown down myself. It hurt, it shouldn't have happened but the person was very apologetic, got a bit of a hop and I can forgive and forget.
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I am quite sure that if the lad responsible had been properly apologetic, Bertie would not have felt the need to get involved.
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| Specialman wrote: |
| The similarity between the six-year-old who kneecapped me (not on a designated sledging slope, just somewhere popular with sledgers) and the French 14-year-old with his baggy pants and braces is they're both kids who should have respect and manners instilled in them. |
| Specialman wrote: |
| I still don't see the OP's reasoning behind teaching him a lesson though when he's clearly just a kid. |
Well, which is it? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Specialman wrote: |
However, that 'gobby' French lad who had a crazy Ros Beef shouting at him probably thinks A) the English are a bunch of c***s, B) anyone over the age of 30 is a total nob, and C) people should think like him. Typical teenage mentality.
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You answered your own point, he would think that anyways. So what BB did would maybe make him think a bit or not and may just take the message in.
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he was a kid and he was french.. i really cant see the problem
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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andyph, this should be done by their parents I should have written - Apologies for an incomplete post. By the way, you're quoting me out of context - the quote should have 'Neither did.' at the end of it, highlighting that even though in a perfect world kids should be taught respect from an early age, it's not always the case.
Unless it was a teacher or a close family friend I'm 100 per cent positive my parents wouldn't have wanted any old Tom, Dick and Harry trying to teach me how to conduct myself. Doing it through a shouting match is not constructive.
Put it this way, how would you deal with someone in front of your kids? Would you have a reasonable conversation with them and then assess what action (if any) should be taken, or would you shout the person down, do something to annoy them further (like nicking their ski) and then think you're done a good deed and taught them how to conduct themselves in future? You'd be setting a $hitty example to your kids and if the OP was trying to instill in the lad a sense of responsibility, now the lad sees shouting at people as being a grown-up, acceptable way to conduct yourself.
Anyway, the OP was just plain wrong to step into something that was none of his business.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Different people different worlds eh. At 14 if I was sking too fast and was given a bo**ocking and had a ski moved......my parents would have said "serves you right" Good move BB
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Cut their goolies off, I tell you
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Specialman if my 14yr old did something stupid and therefore put somebody in danger on the slopes and on top of it all was gobby and declined to apologise, I would be happy for him to receive a good telling off.
While we are on the subject what do you think of this?
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=46951
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lou, re: the spitting story, I find it totally disturbing that children are forced to wear skis...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Specialman wrote: |
| Anyway, the OP was just plain wrong to step into something that was none of his business. |
I think it's part of all our business to confront reckless and dangerous skiing. If we don't I can't see how things will improve.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar for the time being, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one....
*By the way, I'm always up for taking skiers off the slopes, especially French ones, so give me a shout when you're doing a witch hunt and I'll come join you, providing dirty snowboarders like me are allowed in your neck of the woods
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| If our recent Dolomites experience is anything to go by then I would suggest that the British are the most level headed of all the races. Many folks deserved a good punch on the nose for their rudeness. No wonder there have been so many European wars. |
RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH
Seeing as we're generalizing races as if we're BNP members here. "You brits" are hardly so great. Going to foreign countries, drinking excessive amounts and then starting on the locals. Refusing to speak the local language, and acting surprised when they don't respond in English.
I'm sorry but that comment just angered me.
"most level headed of all the races. No wonder there have been so many European wars".
F*ck right off.
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Timmaah,
You may go to resorts where that sort of thing occurs. Fortunately I avoid them. Your choice I suppose
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you kids don't play nice I'll bloody well take your computers of you and leave them 500m away from your office buildings.
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FAQ
, how do you feel about what happened. Have you been convinced that you are now the Judge Dread of the slopes and can move people's ski equipment around the mountain with impunity, or do you think that the next time this happens you'll turn a blind eye on their attitude as well as their fashion sense?